PROOF that Ancient Civilizations were as advanced as us!

reply to post by gtirlad2


OMG, does ANYBODY read through the threads anymore before posting. How many times and how many people do I have to respond to about this post.

READ THE FRIGGIN' THREAD BEFORE YOU POST!

reply to post by Nohup


Now that you have it isolated and enlarged a bit, know what that looks like to me?

A time stamp.

Say the central "star" is Venus (or Jupiter, Sirius A, Polaris, some suitably notable light in the sky). To its left, Orion's Belt. To the right, the Pleiades. The artist could be depicting the season that he wants his prayer (which is apparently what the seal is, according to Essan's resource) to be fulfilled - when the central "star" is in between the two clusters depicted.

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by gtirlad2

 

OMG, does ANYBODY read through the threads anymore before posting. How many times and how many people do I have to respond to about this post.

READ THE FRIGGIN' THREAD BEFORE YOU POST!

NO

After looking at the original image for a while, it does come to mind that someone or something told them about the solar system. Just the fact the planets are around the sun is "advanced". Combine that with the fact the sun is radiating heat/light within the center implies complex knowledge of orbits and possibly WHAT the sun is made of or HOW it works.
These glaring facts within the image lead me to believe the number of planets is NOT a coincidence. If knowledge of orbital paths is known, then I imagine the moons of these planets would be known as moons.

My take: They knew of the solar system and how it works. How is 100% an enigma. I would venture to say that ET ancestors once roamed here without impunity and mixed with Earth humans somehow.
Fascinating image..


As far as the Helicopter/sub/ufo/plane image.
I looked at the debate between Skyfloating and Isaakoi and I tend to lean towards Skyfloating. Going on that image alone, I just don't see how the coincidence of so many "craft" within one sq meter. It's too pronounced and recognizable. I've looked for a higher resolution so I can study it a bit more but from what I've seen now, it's not just eroded glyphs showing through others. Could be wrong of course but I'd like to see a really nice crisp image ( a 7mp or so) before I would take a final stance..

Interesting thread..

I've read most of the thread but was turned off by the bickering and repeat questions that had been answered 2-3 times over.
If you are interested in a thread, READ it. We all have things to do and just chiming in because you want to is distracting and a waste of time when we read the same repeated questions that have already been answered.

b



[edit on 8-2-2008 by Bspiracy]

I'm sorry, just have to chime in real quick. If they were so advanced why are we reading it off a wall and not a burn cd or a hard drive? Why not even a piece of paper? The Bagdad Battery is more interesting than this.

reply to post by Trauma


So because they found pluto before us that is definative proof of a civilization more technologically advanced than our own???

Hmmmm ok.

the L shaped symbol to in a big box on the top right of the picture kinda looks like tetris to me

looking at it, it doesn't look special it looks more like 2 guys talking to a king like person at night time,maybe a wartime ceremony those sticks coming out of the ground look like swords maybe the goat are sacrifice for good fortune, the "sun" being to moon emitting light in the dark night time sky surrounded by stars. I sure wouldn't stamp a civilization as being advanced as we are by just looking at that picture. If we had people do a carving to preserve our legacy or history as humans i bet it would look way better then that. We would use our advanced tools like Router bits or what not.


A good example of what a advanced civilization like us would have done. On the voyager2 satellite they put a plaque on it of gold in case some aliens come upon it they can learn a bit about us. On it has a man and a female nicely drawn to proportion and I think it has the satellite behind them to use as a scale for height. It also has a simple yet accurate model of our solar system size differences between planets Saturn with rings. (Idk how to upload or make links >.> but can see the plaque if you google image search voyager2 plaque)

I think someone said they had the same knowledge as us but not the same technology? How can that be? as soon as we found out how to build the Hbomb we did it...If humans have the knowledge and recourses to make something we will make it... They lived on the same planet as we did therefore had what we have now if not more. If they are advanced as we are they should have been able to make something as good as the voyager2 plaque if not better.

Originally posted by Dagar
Perhaps because the journey is sometimes as important as the destination... and without new people taking that journey our understanding of the universe would never grow.

This is a good point. Yet can my (and others') posts not be considered part of this "journey" as well?

Originally posted by DagarAlso, how did these knowledgeable people acquire that knowledge in the first place. By seeking it, perhaps?

Typically it comes from being excited at the prospect of something new and highly unusual being possible. Such a thing can elicit in some people the need to find out more about the subject.

IOW, not all people immediately assume that the story of, say, Niburu as told by Sitchen or the Annunaki "genetically manipulating" apes into humans is completely factual.

Once the need for more knowledge is met, the person then sees he's been lied to, yet walks away with some knowledge of the ancient past he wouldn't have obtained otherwise.

Knowledge like I've tried to impart in this (and other) threads.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
However as certain characters and events are discovered to have actually existed that were once thought myth, historians rarely go back and try to put them where they would have existed and instead try to make them fit into our notion of history thus leading to many errors in modern history. I mean for years Gilgamesh was thought of as a literary character and that the Epic of Gilgamesh was completely fictional, but a few years back the tomb of Gilgamesh was found. So, you have to ask yourself, how many of the religious texts and myths actually talking about real events.

The Gilgamesh you mention here was already known to have been a King in Sumeria (Babylonian, unless I misremember.) Not the original Gilgamesh but named after him.

This is known because the story is known to have predated this king. It was known long before the tomb was found.

Of course, that doesn't preclude the possibility that the original Gilgamesh existed. I mean, Davy Crockett existed yet all kinds of tall tales and folklore have grown around his story.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Now that you have it isolated and enlarged a bit, know what that looks like to me?

A time stamp.

Excellent example of critical thought processes. A time stamp is precisely what it is.

Other seals contain similar stamps. I remember one in particular showing a crab in the sky. Sitchinites, because of their literalism, must interpret that seal as the invasion of aliens from the Crab Nebula, I suppose.

Harte

Originally posted by Ketzer22
I believe you meant to say its not my "prerogative" to say where other people post. I figured being an "oldster" you'd have enough sense to make sure you don't sound like a fool before attempting to bash someone, and ultimately derailing a perfectly good thread. If you and whargoul are such great friends why not send a u2u to say your "goodbyes"? This thread wasn't entitled "Farewell to Whargoul" was it? I didn't think so, and I believe ATS is pretty clear about keeping on topic in a thread.

I'm all for listening to both sides of the story, but when you come into a thread, talking about how everyone who has posted on it so far is an idiot, and how you have done so much hardcore research on it, I don't want to listen to an arrogant, self-proclaiming expert such as yourself. You're not even a mod for Christ's sake.

I really don't know where you get off acting like we're inferior beings for starting a discussion amongst ourselves. Oh, and btw I DID dare to tell you where to post the truth on a website, so put that in your pipe and smoke it "oldster".

I don't feel stupid from your previous post. I simply said "trying" to, and it was a piss-poor attempt at that.

I didn't throw a tantrum. I was simply defending myself after you busted into this thread with a "holier than thou" attitude and started slinging mud. You rode in on your noble steed of knowledge and tried to act like you were the prince of Sumeria, but instead you just made yourself look like an ass.

Lastly, I don't even know why YOU responded to my post.. it was clearly in reply to whargoul. I guess some people just look for excuses to fight.

Hmmm.

Let's examine these offensive posts of mine with your's (above) as a backdrop, shall we?

Originally posted by Harte

I hope you're not serious.

It says no such thing in Sumerian texts. Nothing even remotely like that.

Also, the O.P. is incorrect in his interpretation concerning the pattern of objects depicted on that panel. The cuneiform writing that accompanies the pic tells us that what is depicted there is the Pleiades star cluster, and not the solar system.

The large "star" in the center of the pattern is not the Sumerian symbol for the sun.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by AshleyD
[

Hope you don't mind me adding this, Trauma, but what do you think of this:



It's in one of the pyramids of Egypt, Osiris' I believe. Pretty famous but one of my friends who believes the Sumerian mythology (but believes they were aliens) has that on his Myspace page.

In Hathor's Temple at Abydos.

It's words, people, not pictures.

use the freakin search function for goodness sake.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte


Whargoul,

Sorry to see you go, man.

I disappeared from here for about 6 mos. or so and when I came back this place looks like Graham Hancock's forum.

Marduk was banned - he got too overheated at the stupidity and basically ruded his ownself to death.

Haven't seen Byrd or Nygdan. If one of them doesn't come riding in soon, I may join you in your exit.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
reply to post by mojo4sale

 

Mojo,

While neither of us truly qualify as "old timers" here on ATS, I still feel like I'm saying this one old timer to another.

I lament the decided falling off of valuable and interesting content here at ATS as well.

There is no question that skeptics and knowledgeable people perform a service at sites like this without which these sorts of websites cannot long exist.

I'm not so fed up as to leave just yet. My goal at ATS and other forums is to try to insert in each thread, as near to the "alternative" claim as possible, the reasons that the "Mainstream side" will give for why the alternative is wrong.

I do this as much as I can so that in the future, people that are running searches on this info might turn up some answers other than the whacked-out nonsense that turns up on 999,999 pages out of every million returned on a Google search on, say, the phrase "Ancient Astronauts."

The reason I do it is because it took an awful lot of work for me to find all the perspectives on these sorts of subjects when I was trying to feel out the truth of such claims.

Now what some folks here call the "mainstream" view appears in incrementally more search returns because I've put it there.

I could only get about ten thousand other people to do the same thing, both sides of these claims would appear in maybe one-tenth of the search returns run on any given subject.

So, anyway, for me, I'm not trying to teach anyone. I'm just trying to put the info out there (hopefully and usually with links) for future reference.

Maybe that's why I never got fed up enough to leave like so many others. I really don't care if the knot heads here believe me or not.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Dagar
reply to post by Harte

 

Why wreck it by continuously insulting people by referring to them as 'knotheads' etc

I thought "knotheads" was being kind!

No, really. Please note that I left it to each individual to decide if he was or was not one of the "knotheads" to which I referred.

Plus, what is a knothead exactly? A knot in a piece of wood is an extremely tough section to break or cut through. When I say knotheads, I mean people that hold on to their original line of thought regardless of how many times they've been show to be either wrong or probably wrong.

So far, in this thread anyway, nobody has come back and said "Harte: I don't care what you say and I'm not going to look at the evidence because I already know what I want to believe so I'm going to continue to assert that my belief is factual regardless of how much evidence there is out there to the contrary" (or words to that effect.)

Originally posted by DagarGoing back to my original criticism of your friend who threw the hissy fit. People will visit a website like ATS, see people discussing ideas and want both to join in and contribute and hopefully learn something in the process.

Which friend was this again?

Originally posted by DagarSeveral ways to guarantee turning off people that you may be trying to educate, or have a discussion with, is to criticise them for bringing up a previously discussed topic, deride the topic (or point of view) they may be putting forth, telling people (constantly) how superior your understanding and knowledge is to their's and how stupid they are, and calling them insulting names

I have to add to this that the search function at this site is not exactly user friendly.

Originally posted by DagarTo be completely honest, anyone taking the above approach, regardless of the message they are trying to impart, gets a big fat 'don't want to know' from me straight away

As I stated, I don't really care what you or anyone else "wants to know." My posts here aren't really for your benefit.

Ran out of room.

Show me, please, where I've done what you claim in this thread?

Or should I show you where it was you that acted the way you've accused me of?

It appears that I've been attacked because I know enough to dare to contradict you (and others) here.

Harte

reply to post by Trauma


That is an interesting picture, and would seem to point towards a heliocentric solar system with all the planets and then some, but really that's just an assumption. There's no way to know what those dots represent, or what the center dot represents. Maybe that's a depiction of the Earth in the center, with the radiance for effect and emphasis, with random dots around it to represent the stars.

Taken out of context, it's pretty easy to contort anything to mean whatever you want.

Kotaro, that's funny, after studying the original pic, i said to myself, wow they even played Tetris too!.

EDIT**After reading the full thread(I jumped the gun and made this post after reading the first 2 pages of the thread, not a smart thing to do) and doing some research unfortunately, this post is incorrect But I will leave it here anyway, because for at least one brief moment I thought I, well we had some good evidence. But apparently this Sumerian seal has been beaten to death, and has been proven quite a few times that the star map is not a depiction of our solar system, but of a group of stars (not planets), and most likely the pleades. **/EDIT

-On a more serious note (I know I'm a little late getting in this conversation, and this point was made on the first couple pages), but I would contest, that they show the Earth's Moon (I do agree with you that that is what it it, but for different reasons is all) on thier star map for the simple fact it is OUR moon, not because one day it will become a planet. There is no factual research behind that. Yes we no it is moveing away from us at about an inch per year, but that by no mean makes it a planet in the makeing.

Let alone all of the other dozens of moons in our solar systems that are more than likely receeding from thier planets. Are those also planets to be one day? Then why ny not include them.

I do agree that is Charon/Pluto depicted as well for the fact that it is such an unusual occurance, and also it was shown to them so that modern man or whoever one day would find this, would realize that someone not from this earth gave the Sumerians this information.

So up to this point in the original picture in the first post I am in agreeance(with the thread author) on everything so far depicted in the star map.

That leaves Sedna. Now I'm still on the fence about this one. Firstly, why is it located between two figures. It's just not pleasing to the eye from an artists viewpoint, and i'm sure the cities best artist was called to make these. Being an artist, this is the sort of thing, I would erase, move the character closest to the sun's right, more to the right, and leave room for Sedna, this way we KNOW it part of the star map we're looking at.

If that figure wasn't in between Sedna and the sun I'd definitiely agree that dot (which btw isn't as prominant((darkened)) in on the drawing as the other celestiaal bodies shown.) But since there's a person in between there, it makes me wonder whether or not thats just a nick or chip in the clay tablet, then again we see no other nick's or chips in the tablet. Interesting.

Question. and please I hope I don't get yelled at to do my research, but is this "Sedna" planet supposed to be the home planet of the Annunaki?

Either way this is a great find, and there is definite proof (judgeing by this tablet) imo that the ancient Sumerians were visited by some space fareing race, that gave them this information. I mean just look at how long ago it was (and not very long mind you comparing to this chart) that people still beilived the earth was flat, and that it was the Center of the solar system. Both of those are proven false on this tablet. But to throw in all the other planets, and the Pluto/Charon double planet, it's just amazing.

Regardless of whether or not that is Sedna, (at this point I'm about 60/40 that it is), I still think this is positive proof that the Sumerians were given knowledge from an race that travelled to the earth from another planet.

Great, great thread, starred and flagged.

EDIT* Also in regards to the argument on the 4th page or so about if we had a catastrophic event what would WE leave behind for future races to know that we once existed.

There are plenty of Time Capsules that WILL be found if the above scenario should take place. and we have simple, to the more intelligent, the the very intelligent materials stored on simple round plates with information engraved in pure gold,titanium, and other exotic metals I wouldnt even know the names of that would stand the test of time for alot longer than rock. Given enough time, a drop of water can bore a hole through rock.(and , again these historical plates/discs are encapsulated to avoid further contamination and errosion).

I would expect there are hundreds of thousands of these floating around the earth in the ground, buried under the surface in cintainers that a civilization as intelligent as us would be able to find them with simple sonar, or whatever type of detectors would be adequet. There is probably a vast number of these that we're SHOT into deep space at the time as well, heh.


en.wikipedia.org...



Something like this is what an intelligent civilization would leave behind. Not saying the Sumerians weren't intelligent, but to put that star map on a clay tablet (and not create something like in the link above) it is obvious that this information was given to them. I mean it's wonderful, this is just about the best concrete, here you can touch it, factual evidence we have of actual beings visiting earth from another planet. That is of course that the Sumerian tablet is genuine, and has been carbon dated ect, I assume it was, and is genuine. So ya, this is great proof in my opinion.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Nola213]

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by Ketzer22

 

Sumerians are very interesting indeed.. But what I don't understand is if they were so advanced, why make drawings on clay? Why not do something on photoshop?

classic.

Yes, good question. Why create drawings on clay and walls, if you have the technology to see millions of miles into space?

Makes you wonder if they were getting their info from somewhere/something else eh?

Well they didn't have a very high tech devices, mostly the shamans used lot of plants such as '___', saliva other natural drugs which allowed them to leave their bodies and most likely be in contact with Aliens. They're the ones that thought them all about the stars, calender, etc.. not necessarily man made mechanical devices. It was beyond that!

hmmm, after reading the full thread now, and doing some research about that particular Sumerian "seal". Unfortunately it seems it doesn't depict the sun surrounded by planets.

Apparantly many sources agree thats not the symbol the sumerians used (always used) for our sun. They also can prove pretty well that the dots around this object are stars, most likely the pleadies.

Well this was explained on the 4 or 5th page of this thread. *sigh* what a let down there. It just goes to show You should always read the entire thread before posting. I just had so much hope for this and jumped the gun in excitement it seems

However. I'm, gonna continue to do a bit more research into this seal, and other Sumerian seals/tablets , hopefully it's not as cut and dry as it now seems to be that this seal in the original post does not depict our solar system at all.

Originally posted by Nola213
hmmm, after reading the full thread now, and doing some research about that particular Sumerian "seal". Unfortunately it seems it doesn't depict the sun surrounded by planets.

Apparantly many sources agree thats not the symbol the sumerians used (always used) for our sun. They also can prove pretty well that the dots around this object are stars, most likely the pleadies.

Well this was explained on the 4 or 5th page of this thread. *sigh* what a let down there. It just goes to show You should always read the entire thread before posting. I just had so much hope for this and jumped the gun in excitement it seems

However. I'm, gonna continue to do a bit more research into this seal, and other Sumerian seals/tablets , hopefully it's not as cut and dry as it now seems to be that this seal in the original post does not depict our solar system at all.

Nola,

Careful. When I said as much, I was accused of misconduct here.

Some people apparently don't want to hear other people's thoughts on these matters. Even when they specifically ask for other people's thoughts.

Harte

Originally posted by Nola213


Apparantly many sources agree thats not the symbol the sumerians used (always used) for our sun. They also can prove pretty well that the dots around this object are stars, most likely the pleadies.

Hi Nola213 *waves*

Any chance you could post a few links to those sources. Would love to have a look.

Cheers

Originally posted by Trauma
This would be Sedna.
Discovered in 2003, it easily could have been right around the area depicted in the Sumerian star map over eight thousand years ago.
This proves that the first know civilization, the Sumerian's, had knowledge that was just as advanced as our current knowledge, if not more.

Looking at the star chart the Tablet
I see three large,three medium and five small circles looking at our planet sizers its two extra Large,two large,four medium and three small Planets(dwarf planets),nothing like the Tablet as for the circle to the right it's just placed there (maybe where they think their Gods are).
How did the Sumerian's view the sky's,with their own eyes or with help from a Telescope with highly polished glass lensers?
How did the Sumerian's carve the tablet eight thousand years ago if the earliest
Bronze Age was 5,500 years ago
EBA
Early Bronze Age (c. 3500-2000 BC)
MBA
Middle Bronze Age (c. 2000-1600 BC)
LBA
Late Bronze Age (c. 1600-1100 BC)
I never will believe that some ancient civilizations were smarter than today.
(maybe in war tactics )

my 2c

reply to post by Dagar



A number of us have provided links to those sources throughout this thread, obviously only one person has bothered to look at them.

nola

*sitting in the corner in fetal position rocking back and forth with foam dripping from mouth*

" ATS members DO read the entire thread before posting. They DO read the thread before posting..."

That's it, I officially give up on this thread. It started as a good conversational debate, and has completely turn into a bunch of people bickering like little kids, not reading the full thread before posting, and people who can't seem to take a friggin' joke without wanting to debunk it.

*Wipes hands* I'm done.

miss read mojo4sale's post.

[edit on 8/2/08 by Zelong]