Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy

Originally posted by kangjia57
I would leave this country if the British law conflicts with the core principles of Islam.

Has that not been shown to be the case with the prosecution and conviction of people for murdering their daughters/wives as part of so-called "honour killings" ?

Or is that a skewed version of Sharia that was applied, that has no relevance to how you see things?

[edit on 4/0208/08 by neformore]

reply to post by laiguana



I agree with you 100%, we see this problem here in the US already with the problems in our economy and the immigration gone out of control.

You missed my point, although I DONT think you can prove that the koran has stayed the same through 14 centuries of infallible people copying it.

Using your own text, I questioned what it meant. If you aren't supposed 'to mix' with unbelievers, then why can you (or any other muslim) accept the charity of unbelievers? Isn't that 'mixing'? And if so, aren't you breaking your own religious law by accepting the charity offered?

Reply to Beachcoma

The difference is that what I was taught places faith in one's ability to tell right from wrong. What you were taught is a more of a 'glass is half empty' take on things -- it assumes that one isn't able to tell right from wrong.

My friend what I been taught is that if you don’t go towards bad than its very unlikely its gona effect you. But if you yourself get close to it than whose fault is it?

Now you answer me?
Would you ever have non-muslim friends? Would you go out with them and have a ‘good time’ with them?

As for the bit about about contraception -- it doesn't invalidate what I said about it not being prohibited, and in the context in which the subject it was brought up, it definitely isn't prohibited.

Yeh but it stresses on not doing it for the pleasure and only if there are valid reasons.

So I stand by my assertion that Islam is flexible. It's only stiff and rigid if you fail to see the forest for the trees.

Islam is not half and half.Its either you’re a propa Muslim or a munafiq (hypocrite).

Originally posted by kangjia57
Now you answer me?
Would you ever have non-muslim friends? Would you go out with them and have a ‘good time’ with them?

As a matter of fact I do have non-Muslim friends. And depending on what you mean by 'good time', I do enjoy my company with them.

Originally posted by kangjia57

So I stand by my assertion that Islam is flexible. It's only stiff and rigid if you fail to see the forest for the trees.

Islam is not half and half.Its either you’re a propa Muslim or a munafiq (hypocrite).

I'll let the meaning of my words sink into your mind. Perhaps you will understand it's meaning if you think about it.

During the course of this thread, I've been on MSN with a friend of mine who lives in saudi.
We met at college and have been friends for many years - she is a devout muslim, I am a european male.

I haven't sent what kangija says verbatim, but have instead given her the general gist of the conversations - she pretty much can't believe what's been said.

Her words "what are they teaching muslims in your country?"

Other phrases include "superstitious nonsense" and "peasant beliefs"

I've asked her to register so that she can speak for herself - lets hope she does.

Wow! If the Koran is only 1200 years old, it's one of the newest holy books out there!

The logic is starting to make my head ache. So, a valid reason for birth control IS not being able to support your offspring. And you CAN mix with non-Muslims if you are only begging from them and not having a good time with them.

I think I'm starting to understand.

At the the Great Mosque of Sana'a,was found fragments, codices of the Koran,

fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.

What the Yemeni Korans seemed to suggest, Puin began to feel, was an evolving text rather than simply the Word of God as revealed in its entirety to the Prophet Muhammad in the seventh century A.D.

www.theatlantic.com...

"To historicize the Koran would in effect delegitimize the whole historical experience of the Muslim community," says R. Stephen Humphreys, a professor of Islamic studies at the University of California at Santa Barbara. "The Koran is the charter for the community, the document that called it into existence. And ideally—though obviously not always in reality—Islamic history has been the effort to pursue and work out the commandments of the Koran in human life. If the Koran is a historical document, then the whole Islamic struggle of fourteen centuries is effectively meaningless."

www.theatlantic.com...

I humbly beg you pardon for the C and P, but I think this is an important message to get out in order for humantiy to come out of the dark ages!!!!!

WE need to reach the masses or we are doomed.

Spanish speaker here as well. I'd like to add that, to anyone wondering, you'd be surprised at the number of legal HISPANICS here that are p"ed off and embarrassed at the illegals (especially mexicans) who come to this country beating their chests, ripping off our citizens and then clamoring about "latino pride" I have colombian relatives both in my mothers side and my step mothers side, they are furious and embarrassed whenever they see these idiots shout "la raza!" and "latino pride" they know nothing about pride! they know nothing about hard work! only how to screw over the "gringos"

If you're wondering, the reason a number of legal hispanics are p"sed off is because they had to go through hell to get their citizenship, they've assimilated into our culture adn feel real pride in not only being an american citizen, but also providing for their communities and their families, and here come these illegals who come here to pillage and plunder tax payer dollars in the form of free health care/food/money/education etc. etc. they steal from the very latinos that came here legally as well, send at least 75% of all their money back to their country and then have the AUDACITY to talk about pride.

Oh, by the way, having worked in a community action program that actually helped these people, I know very well of all the way they're screwing all american citizens.

P.S. on a side note... these people do NOT want to assimilate into our culture either, 90% of the families that I interviewed to receive help and even adult english education so they could learn english, get their GED's etc. did NOT want help at all and were in fact PRODU of the fact that they only made it to 3rd GRADE! This is pride? this is "la raza"? For all that may not know, a number of colombians I've spoken with in the past all feel this way about the mexicans that tout this c*ap! they feel embarrassed and even ashamed of these one-dimensional characters that actually have the audacity to think that if you're not mulato, then you're not latino. Yet if you visit colombia, you'll find out that latinos are of all colors. I could go on and on about the hippocricy of some of these people and even go as far as reminding mexicans that they're not as latino as they would love to believe considering they have mixed blood from white spaniards whom *gasp* came from europe. But then again, that would get in their way with their whole "we're an indigenous brown people" B.S. schpiel.

To all Mexican illegals who support this rubbish "TU NO ERES LA VOZ DE TODOS LOS LATINOS!!!!! LA MAYORIA DE USTEDES SON NADA MAS UN GRUPO DE SIN VERGUENZAS Y LADRONES REGRESEN A SU PAIS Y ARREGLENLO EN VEZ DE VENIR A ROBAR DE LOS BOLSILLOS DE OTROS LATINOS QUE TRABAJAN DURO POR EL DINERO!!!!!"

Translation: You are not the voice of all latinos, the majority of you are a bunch of ingrates and thieves. Go back to your country and fix your own problems instead of coming here and stealing out of the pockets of hard working latinos.

If some of my arguments are a little random and off topic, please forgive, but whenever I read more on this topic of advantages certain groups get at the expense of another people just because of race/religion. I always get a little passionate and heated and end up writting my arguments a little out of order.

P.P.S. Because of the obvious embarrassment illegals have caused in our country, they've become the very reason why I've embraced my american heritage a heck of a lot more fervently than my own hispanic heritage.

reply to post by kangjia57


I have read into this a few pages but cannot contain myself anylonger. You talk about the country ending up under muslim law, That you will bring a uprising greater than the french muslims, That there is much racism in the UK and more crap that keeps spouting out of your mouth.

1, If you want to live under muslim law then go live in a muslim state where I feel you would be begging to come back to the UK.

2, People in the UK are RACIST? Sorry but no, the word racist is used too loosly in my mind, It when people like you start with your dont do THIS and dont do THAT and give us what WE want or else then you will get peoples backs up who will fight against that, and that is retaliation NOT RACISM.

3, Bring your riots try to burn our streets and see how far you will get (and as a side note if this was said against you the most probable thing you would do is cry RACISM!!).

I am sick and tired of people like yourself, Muslim's preach that the muslim religion is peacful and the all great and they should either stand by people like you and prove that they are just a bunch of extreamist, ungrateful people or they should make an example of you to prove that they are not. Because the way you are talking you are just reasuring everybody that thought that the muslim comunity was an extreamist comunity. So are you speaking for the muslim majority or are these your own sick ravings?

And the day that there is a muslim uprise in the UK will be the last day because I tell you this, The good citizens of the UK are more than ready to take this on. And its people like you that just add fuel to the fire.

People may flame me for this post but I am only saying what other people are scared to say.

There is so much more I could say but I just cant put my anger into words ATM.

reply to post by Beachcoma


[edit on 4-2-2008 by MuseInPink]

Quite simply, some people here need to

Calm Down

Attack the posts, not the posters. If you can't make a point without attacking the poster then please feel free to exercise your fingers away from your keyboard.

I realise some of the stuff being discussed here is emotionally charged and stirs the pot, however we're all capable of rational thought and rising above the level of bickering.

Please remember that Courtesy is Mandatory

Its the ATS way, and its the only way

reply to post by Question


Starred. It's pretty much the same in Malaysia, except instead of Mexicans, it's the Indonesians. Everything else is exactly the same. This leads me to believe that a lot of immigrants everywhere are pretty much like that.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to neformore

I would leave this country if the British law conflicts with the core principles of Islam.

I deleted my initial response to this kangjia as I don't wish to contravene T&C, however, I'm sure you could guess what the jist of it would have been.

In previous threads you have stated that Muslims should abide by the law of their adoptive country and should make every effort to get along with "kaffirs" as long as there religion is respected and no offense is given.

You are now advocating adherence to Sharia Law above adherence to "The Law Of The Land".

What gives you, or anyone for that matter to be exempt from laws that govern the majority?
Would I be exempt from Saudi law if I was living in Saudi Arabia due to my Catholocism? (albeit permanently lapsed!).
Why do some Muslims expect to be treat differently to how they would treat others?

If I were to committ bigamy I would be prosecuted, why should anyone else be treat different?

This seems to have been doing the rounds for a number of years now with Britain, USA, Australia being quite inter-changeable, but the text and message remains the same.
I don't think I've seen this explained any clearer.

martinclarke.blogspot.com...

reply to post by neformore


Sorry for the heated outburst.

You're right a lot of these arguments are emotionally charged which makes it that much harder for some of us to control it, reason being, we end feeling it as a personal attack against ourselves/race/religion/citizens etc.

I'll try, but I can't make any promises

[edit on 4-2-2008 by Question]

kangjia57 :

You've mentioned a number of times that if there were riots, the Muslims in Britain would be ready, and would succeed. You wait and see what happens if that unfortunate situation were to occur. We Brits are extremely tolerant and kind (perhaps too much) - but there is a line! That line is frighteningly close to being crossed due to the betrayal by our goverment, but when it happens, the British will reclaim their laws and land.

This is not meant to be some kind of threat, or insult. I have nothing against the hardworking Muslims who obey British law and treat their neighbours (Muslim or non) with respect. But we have our culture, and while it is sadly not at the forefront of our lives right now, it is still unbreakable and will not be compromised, diluted, or vanquished. Britain will never, ever be under Sharia law. I would die before that day breaks (and probably not by fighting Muslims, but by fighting the treacherous British goverment).

I'm quite astounded at your attitude. I've fought the temptation to give in to anti-Islamic propoganda concerning the attitudes of British Muslims, but sadly, you demonstrate the reality of it.
Please check out this website and set your spirit free.

reply to post by Cythraul




I have explained to kangjia on several occassions that Britain will NEVER be an Islamic country governed by Sharia Law.

I honestly think that there is a serious under-estimation of just how angry every day Britains are becoming and just how close to the edge things really are.

reply to post by Cythraul


a tip of the hat and a salute to you sir. I hope that if that day does end up coming to being, that you and many brits do stand by your word.

I wish more americans would hold to that ideal as well, maybe we wouldn't be in the quamire we're in right now thanks to illegal immigration political correctness and affirmative action. It seems today americans are more interested in finding out more and more about Britney Spears messed up life or that David Crocker idiot on YouTube than they are worried about their own country.

Then again, I'm sure more and more americans WOULD take action had a lot of this mess not been done behind closed doors as these sleazy politicians do. Because, God forbid they'd have to be honest and responsible to the very people they're supposed to represent right?

Maybe some day in the future true americans and true british, and true patriots from around the world can finally band together to get rid of the political corporate dictators that we have in power.

reply to post by Question


My friend I welcome anybody from any country into my home, America, as long as is in good fate and legally, that is what make this country great, that you can come here and a get the chance the American dream, too bad that the American dream and our nation is losing its ability to provide that even to its own citizens.

But still is the best nation in the world.