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Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy

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posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


The easiest way for extremist organisations to recruit is to make everything the fault of someone else.
They focus on young people who are dissatisfied for whatever reason, and teach them that it's all the fault of (insert your preferred choice) and then call it oppression.

It's not oppression if you pay no attention at school, or can't get good qualifications or have unrealistic goals - it's not always the fault of the individual either, there are other factors at work as well.

BUT, these people shouldn't talk about an oppressive society when there are plenty of people of every ethnicity earning a good living - in britain it's anything but oppressive.




posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:58 AM
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The point the OP was making is this:

He's not living by the Counties Law - (Bigamy)
He's not living by Islamic (Law) - (Not supporting his wives financially)
The Government is paying benefits that they should not be receiving.

If he doesn't support his wives he has no defence under religious followings. therefore he has no defence when accused of bigamy.

In my eyes he has a choice.

Live by the Country Law or Islamic Law - at the moment he's doing neither.

The fact that he follows Islam means nothing to me.

I follow the law of (ME) this means i am immune from criminal charges as incarseration is against my religion, i am able to kill who i want as the purification of the planet is stated in my religion.

That was a joke but you can see where i was going with it.


Sorry for ranting but i had to get that off my chest



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


Well, racial harmony can't happen overnight. Malaysia had growing pains on the way there -- The Communist Insurgency, The May 13 Riots, The Kampung Lindungan Riots. After every one of these events, the government further fine-tuned it's policies to be fair to all race and cultures without marginalizing the other.

It takes time and it takes effort from each and every citizen. And it's not something you can stop doing after it's done. You've gotta keep at it to maintain the balance and harmony. And affirmative action doesn't work, so don't bother trying it.

Using the media to maintain that balance helps. It's not the be-all and end-all, but it helps.

This is one of the local ads for one of those years when the Muslim Eid-ul-Fitr and Chinese New Year coincided --



And this one is the one of the Independence Day ads --



There are more ads like these. Just look for 'Petronas' in YouTube. I chose Petronas because they make the best and most moving and touching ads. There's always a strong, positive message behind their ads. I like that.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 06:20 AM
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posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Care to explain your post
obviously you have not taken in consideration my views on my own nation and its corporate ruled corrupted government.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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[edit on 5-2-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 06:53 AM
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Deep Breaths

I appreciate the members for maintaining civility during this thread, you have set a fine example of how we can discuss a subject which may strike right to emotions.

Let's try and maintain this conduct as we go further, don't take the BAIT and by all means let's stick to the topic.


Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy


Thank You,

JacKatMtn
ATS Member & Forum Moderator





[edit on 2/5/2008 by JacKatMtn]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by ZyonCryme
The United States is built on (or is supposed to be built on) Church and State... meaning that it recognizes itself as a Christian Nation. So everyone who immigrates to the US, should call themselves American, but they are whatever religion they are first and then American. Nationality does not change your religion.


We should all be human first. Religion and nationality are artificial labels, and they only serve to seperate us.

This seperation leads to fear...

Fear leads to anger,
anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering.

Humanity is a pawn of the dark side


Yuchhhh, did I just write that. Somebody step on my testicles before I say something like "the needs of the many outway the needs of the few."


Rather than they go into poverty or into prostitution to support themselves, it was allowed in Islam to marry "upto" 4 women (with STRICT rules).


So then it's safe to say that this religious law should maybe be undone maybe?



They somehow find people who claim to be muslims and acting stupid and put these people on TV.


It's all about ratings



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


Beach, you may think I've got it backwards but when you live where I do and constantly have to hear and listen to stories like this day after day it's very easy not to imagine so.

The problem is that whilst I acknowledge that the majority of Muslims may not think like kangjia they refuse to speak out and voice their disagreement for fear of repercusions thus helping maintain the impression that the extremists are in the majority.

Until Muslims start adressing the issues they have themselves then nothing will improve.

Multi- Culturalism will only work if it is a natural process, not if it is forced upon people.

[Edit. My atrocious spelling yet again]

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Freeborn]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


I can only say "bravo" to your government for tackling such a thorny issue with such grace - and for making it work.

If only we had a similar government in britain - instead we have the trendy lefties who hate all things british and in their quest for "equality" make some brits feel like second class citizens.

I think that the key statement in your last post was about EVERYBODY buying into multi culturalism.
Sadly, if it's just one ethnic group buying into it, it'll never happen.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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STOP PRESS!

sorry but this is clearly bull #, Britain does not allow shariah in the UK. period. Polygamy is illegal, therefore it would be impossible for a man to claim benefits for two wives.

There are no sources, no quotes, nothing.

By the by, the Daily Mail is hate spewing xenophobic propaganda that attempts to pose as a serious news paper.


If I had a £ / $ / Euro everytime the mail came up with a sensational story about "Brown people stealing jobs / benefits / white babies" I wouldnt be to worried about finding a job.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by tarichar]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


I understand your frustration and I can relate. In my country, Indonesian immigrants cause a lot of problems, too. However, our media does not focus on these problems day in day out. It is one thing to highlight a problem so that the public is aware of it. It is quite another thing to repeat an issue over and over again so much that resentment starts to build. For all their flaws, the Indonesians here perform a vital service to the country -- they take up jobs no one else wants.


Originally posted by Freeborn
The problem is that whilst I acknowledge that the majority of Muslims may not think like kangjia they refuse to speak out and voice their disagreement for fear of repercusions thus helping maintain the impression that the extremists are in the majority.


But they do voice their disagreements. However, the way your media is set up, it thrives on conflict. The people itself may be partly to blame, though. Let's face it, would you rather go to a ballet or watch a fight? Besides, if the more extreme and intolerant elements get more media coverage whilst the moderate voices get ignored, pretty soon the moderate voices will just give up trying to get themselves heard.


Originally posted by Freeborn
Multi- Culturalism will only work if it is a natural process, not if it is forced upon people.


Agreed. But let me ask you, what is natural about inciting resentment? Let's take the current topic at hand, go back to the basics.

The title of the news article in the OP is "Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy"

While it is accurate, is it really the only way to articulate it? And what about the content of the article itself? Only in the third paragraph does it start talking about how this decision was initiated by your politicians. And only in the 13th paragraph does it mention the purpose of the decision, which ironically enough is to promote multi-culturalism.


"This sets a precedent that will lead to more demands for the culture of other countries to be reflected in UK law and the benefits system."


*Note that while I agree with the intention, I disagree with the way they're going about this. Affirmative action does NOT work. It has not worked in the US, it has not worked in Malaysia, I don't see how it will work in the UK.

So I reiterate my assertion that multi-culturalism CAN work. But it is NOT an overnight process. It requires time and it requires effort from each and every individual in the state. And the way to start it off is through education with the aid of the media.

If the media stops focusing on bad news and starts focusing more on positive messages, it can and it will work. But not overnight. There is no instant gratification here.


Non est ad astra mollis e terris via



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


Thank you. We're still learning. The battle for harmony is far from over. And there will always be small pockets of dissension, after all, nothing is perfect. It's the way these issues and those who bring it up are tackled that makes all the difference.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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OK, even if news source seems for people in the UK here bias this seems to be actually truth when it comes to the new law or rule for this type of marriage.

Can somebody tell me if I am wrong here.

This is from the source.


New guidelines on income support from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) state: "Where there is a valid polygamous marriage the claimant and one spouse will be paid the couple rate (£92.80). "The amount payable for each additional spouse is presently £33.65."


So this was passed into law, right? or is just bias information.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I agree, this is not about attacking the source, this is now a more philosophical discussion into the whys and wherefores of how we in the UK have got ourselves into this mess, although as beachcoma says - the spin doesn't help matters.

I also agree wholeheartedly with beachcoma - affirmative action does NOT work.



[edit on 5/2/2008 by budski]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


Thanks Budski, hey I got an Idea, how about Uk citizens going to Muslim countries get a couple of wives (because is legal to marry more than one wife in this countries) then bring them to the UK and file for spouse assistance.


After all the law said that if is done outside the UK in a country where is legal you it will be recognize as a legal marriage.

Now if they are doing his for only Muslim people . . . then it will discrimination . . . and this will bring another problems a big law sue.


[edit on 5-2-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


There's one big drawback marge - more wives equals more in-laws.
Who in their right mind wants that?


Seriously though, I would get sent to prison if I tried this - after all, it's not part of my culture and they would quickly find something to charge me with.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by tarichar
STOP PRESS! Britain does not allow shariah in the UK. period. Polygamy is illegal, therefore it would be impossible for a man to claim benefits for two wives. There are no sources, no quotes, nothing.

You know, this did occur to me, that the whole story might be completely fabricated, or so outrageously slanted and distorted as to become a COMPLETE LIE.

In particular, it sounds from the article like this might be nothing more than a proposal, rather than an official policy change. As we know, people can propose things for various reasons and motives, including making suggestions just to see them shot down.

If your statement above is correct (and it seems like something that could easily be proven) I guess we should all just move on.

It has been an interesting and provocative discussion, and I think we have all seen some very valid reasoning and thoughtfulness, as usual.


[edit on 5-2-2008 by Buck Division]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


Well, racial harmony can't happen overnight. Malaysia had growing pains on the way there -- The Communist Insurgency, The May 13 Riots, The Kampung Lindungan Riots. After every one of these events, the government further fine-tuned it's policies to be fair to all race and cultures without marginalizing the other.


That's exactly what is missing in the US of A. You are now witnessing what can happen when the government relaxes its oversight of private banks and home loan makers. This is the direct product of the Reagan Revolution. A polite phrase for the dismantling of the New Deal and the regulations on finance and commerce it had imposed. We got lead painted toys, e. coli in our salads, and infected meat to eat. But over here, people still think their phone bill is regulated but it is not, thank you Mr. Reagan.

We have privatized America. Beware UK and EU. Money talks anywhere on the planet,. If you doubt that, look at China. Mao is dead. The question is how far RIGHT will China go?

OK, so this is not much to do directly on Muslims getting paid for 4 wives. It's my position that what happens on one side of the Atlantic is felt later on the other side. Community and civility have slipped away here, gradually. It will never return as we cannot replicate the past anywhere, but change will come. The GOP seems poised to nominate a war monger, a '100 years war' crusader and a increase in our war making potential while at the same time lowering taxes on the R&Fs. The Dems are locked in a contest that has the potential to give the November 4 election to the GOP.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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Reply to intrepid



Man, you must be extremely old to be able to make that claim. Are you 1400 years old? Are you saying that the Qu'ran couldn't have been manipulated over the times that encompass Crusades, Dark Ages, etc?


Has been answered here:

www.islamic-shield.com...

You might find this site very useful to other questions you have

Reply to neformore



Has that not been shown to be the case with the prosecution and conviction of people for murdering their daughters/wives as part of so-called "honour killings"
?

‘Honour killings’ are not allowed in Islam.Theres no Sharia law in UK at the moment so cant practise the sharia here yet.

Reply to Freeborn



I honestly think that there is a serious under-estimation of just how angry every day Britains are becoming and just how close to the edge things really are.


First rise against your government.
And second you won’t be able to hack us as easy as you think. Have you ever seen the Pakistani,Afghan,Somali,Sudanese youth?Anything happens and these guys will first burn down towns of every major city. Cops will run when they see us in hundreds and thousands.The only way possible will be getting military involved to crush the uprising.



The problem is that whilst I acknowledge that the majority of Muslims may not think like kangjia they refuse to speak out and voice their disagreement for fear of repercusions thus helping maintain the impression that the extremists are in the majority.


The problem is they know being a hardcore Muslim is Right. And being liberal and mixing in with non-muslims is wrong.Thats why they dont dare stop me or like minds like me.

Reply to Cythraul



Besides, as TheWalkingFox said, who we should really be angry at is our government. It's difficult to blame a group of people for taking the opportunities that are laid out for them. It's a harsh world at the best of times, so of course people are going to clutch at every straw. It's the goverment's responsiblity to make sure they do right by its people (particularly those whose ancestors built and defended the country).


Exactly my point!People from poor backgrounds will definitly take full advantage of it even if they earn enough.

Reply to ZyonCryme



As muslims, we MUST follow the laws of the country we choose to live in, BUT if the laws do not allow us to practice our religion, or if they conflict, then we have to try "in a legal and friendly manner" to resolve things. If they cannot be resolved, we should leave the country.


Yes but for some reason people here don’t understand that.We also got MPs up there to do it "in a legal and friendly manner".But they still have a rpoblem with it.

Reply to beachcomma

Which law would you prefer first? Sharia Law or Western law?

And please dont twist the answer in case you might hurt the feelings of your fellow members.



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