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Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy

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posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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Come on, how many wives you have is a cultural thing, not a universal moral. It's perfectly fine that they claim them, why not as long as the marriage is legal. Oh and for the guy saying that it would be more strain on hard workers, I donno how it works over there, but here claiming a wife is really just for tax and inheritance purposes. Maybe it's the same there, I really can't say, but if it is then your points really null.

cultural relativism vs. universal morals; who's to say which is right




posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by avingard
 


I believe that you missed the OP and the issue here.
this is no about claiming wives, but the UK government using tax payer money to pay for the many wives and children that this men can not afford, but still they go against their own Islamic rule to have while residing in the UK, where polygamy is against the law to its own born citizens.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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John Lear may be gone, as of today, but I will continue with ATS, mainly because of incredibly engaging threads like this!

#

Kangjia deserves some applause. He jumped into a hostile thread, debated half a dozen members over a period of several hours, including answering various questions put to him. Although he was forceful and defiant, he never resorted to personal insult or excessive vitriol. I admire is convictions. He is obviously very sincere. I respect that. I think even his detractors will give him credit for that.

#

I suggest the following: religion is the most important freedom we have.

For many people, religion is the only thing that provides justification for life. It is the only thing that quells the fear of death. People will fight harder for religious beliefs than any other thing, including family. So it is good to be as tolerant as possible of this powerful force in people’s lives.

No religion is 100% right. Each has its good and bad points. If you disagree with me on that, then you are placed in the same position as Kangjia, so you should be sympathetic with him. (At least you should understand his intolerance!)

Just give Islam a pass on this. As stated in the thread, it isn’t that big a financial deal, and is very important to Kangjia and other Muslims. This appears to be the official policy of the UK and I think it is wise – probably better than what we, in the USA, would concede to implement (at least at this time.)

Score one for UK liberalism, for setting a good example.


EDIT: Compelled to add thumbs up emoticon, as finishing touch!

[edit on 4-2-2008 by Buck Division]



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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Nothing more than people figuring out ways to work the system.

Stuff like that makes me sick no matter where it happens.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


But it's the "muslem immergrantz" who are doing it to the west, and not the rulers of the west, right? Despite the fact that "the west" prides itself on democratic action.

You curse the symptom and praise the disease.

Putz.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:00 AM
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reply to post by Question
 

Thank you. I honestly wouldn't say Britain is any more awake than you guys across the pond though. BUT, on a regular basis, liberal anti-racist people I know are expressing outrage at the loss of this country's identity. For god's sake, I'd probably call myself a liberal... but even 'liberals' can only take so much.

Besides, as TheWalkingFox said, who we should really be angry at is our government. It's difficult to blame a group of people for taking the opportunities that are laid out for them. It's a harsh world at the best of times, so of course people are going to clutch at every straw. It's the goverment's responsiblity to make sure they do right by its people (particularly those whose ancestors built and defended the country).

Furthermore, I'm convinced that the push for ultimate multi-culturalism is part of a grand plan. I couldn't help but take something from Alex Jones' Endgame - that the powers that be are encouraging cultural spread in order to erase the National Identity necessary to divide nation from nation.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


I get where you are coming from......LMAO! Oh, but there should be benefits to all of this. Although having one wife is bad enough. But being paid to have your own harem????? Well, I have to seriously consider this benefit [Yes, I am a backsliding x-tian. Call me heathen, but I am a happy heathen!!!]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:21 AM
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I checked your sources. Scary. This is another form of prostitution. Simple. This same type of welfare-economics has been in America for a long, long time. I get pissed when some welfare recipient, comes in to the petrol station that I fill up at, with their welfare food card, 5 kids [each having a different father; you can tell!] and driving an Escalade. Then she gets pissed off at the petrol attendant because he cannot break a $100.00 bill! Do not get me started on this one.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Umm no it actually IS uncommon, most muslims have 1 wife.

The only people to blame here is the goverment.


I'll repeat my post from earlier, just incase more people take this opportunity to bash muslims etc.

Just remember that they can get away with this because the goverment allows it, therefore if you really want to blame something blame the goverment.


[edit on 5-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by TheoOne
p.s. Having multiple wives are nice though, I think lol.


Are you kidding? It's wives! Not girlfriends.

Oh, the horror!


Well..

In Muslim communities, being a wife is kinda like being one of a group of girlfriends who all live together and go with the same guy, lol.

And theres alot more submission, so add the "pimp" element to the equation just a little bit. And if it is Aghanistan, add the "drug dealer" factor too for growing poppies.

So you have a Muslim pimping his girlfriends and getting paid by the government, basically. Gee, for once I wish I was a British Muslim..

Well not really! lol

[edit on 2/5/2008 by runetang]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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I'm Muslim.... and i'm a bit shocked at what i'm hearing from another muslim. Let me set things very clear.

1. As muslims, we MUST follow the laws of the country we choose to live in, BUT if the laws do not allow us to practice our religion, or if they conflict, then we have to try "in a legal and friendly manner" to resolve things. If they cannot be resolved, we should leave the country.

This is plain and clear in Islam. And i think its also in Christianity and Judaism because most people are labeled their religion first before their Nationality. The United States is built on (or is supposed to be built on) Church and State... meaning that it recognizes itself as a Christian Nation. So everyone who immigrates to the US, should call themselves American, but they are whatever religion they are first and then American. Nationality does not change your religion.

Also a Muslim is not allowed to go into a country and cause problems.

As for the guy with 4 wives. You have to understand the History of why this was even allowed to begin with. And, its a very very difficult thing to do while keeping religiously proper. At the time of the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), there were many large scale wars and men would die in thousands. So what would happen to all the women who had no one to support them financially? Rather than they go into poverty or into prostitution to support themselves, it was allowed in Islam to marry "upto" 4 women (with STRICT rules). And the rules consisted of 1. the first wife has to agree to the husband marrying the 2nd wife, and so on.. 2. the man has to be able to be FAIR to all of them equally (emotionally, financially, timewise). This is Very very difficult to do. Really. So its not what people think of it... as if "oooh nice i can sleep with 4 women whoo hoo".. it was actually a very very demanding and streneous responsibility for most people. And in Islam it is recommended to marry only one. This idea of 4 women is for the few who can tolerate the very strict rules or fairness and who are financially secure enough to deal with it.

As for being British and a Muslim... NO MUSLIM is allowed to think that he is better than a Christian or a Jew.... or ANYONE else for that matter.

I think we all get upset when people stereotype.. its a disease that plagues us all. And its annoying and the only way to eradicate it is through understanding and tolerance.

We are all human beings first and foremost. We all want the same good life. We have different ideas and beliefs, and thats ok. We just need to have patience with each other and be kind to each other. really. And for those of us who see others who stereotype other races, religions,etc.... we should educate them and tell them its wrong.

I have seen so many times when people want to make a point, and they misquote a line out of the Quraan (which can happen if you dont read whats before that line or after it), and they just mutilate the words completely into something which is against the teachings of Islam. And its frusterating as a muslim to see that... and then the Media goes on and adds salt to the wound, and they dont let anyone come and explain how thats the wrong idea. They somehow find people who claim to be muslims and acting stupid and put these people on TV.

Anyways I read some of the posts on here and i realized that people are upset (well some of the muslims replying) ... I think its better not to say anything out of being defensive because sometimes we say the wrong thing. Its better to teach the right thing rather than express our rage wrongfully.

Peace everyone



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by ZyonCryme
 


It is refreshing to get an alternative perspective.


I am certain that if everybody, (Muslim AND non-Muslims), had as equally tolerant, caring and understanding viewpoint then we would not be in the situation we are.

Alas, I fear you are one of a very small minority.

RnR



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 

Agreed. I'd like to think all Muslims have the same attitude as ZyonCryme, and for his/her contribution I'm thankful.

Sadly, it is my opinion that multi-culturalism is fundamentally impossible. Each culture and religion has its own laws and traditions... and while one law is being upheld, another is likely to be undermined. This results in a lawless state.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by ZyonCryme
 


Good refreshingly sensible post


I'm convinced there are agendas in play here. Reminds me of the times that Abu Hamza was hogging the limelight preaching his craziness, while the media went into orbit writing pieces about terrorists in our midst preaching hate. He was left alone and allowed to preach his hatred deliberately, to cause a stir and outrage the sheeple.
This new story is doing the same thing. Sure it's going to get people riled and get them shouting about sponging bloody Muslims, but that is the whole point.
Muslims are the currently popular bogeymen, over time this may change and we'll then be told to fear for our lives due to an influx of Channel Islanders or the Welsh

Sure, there are probably a lot of sponging immigrants, gaming the system and basically taking the pee because things are made easy for them to do so. But, they are likely outnumbered by the slovenly bone idle white trash doing the same thing. The overriding factor here has got to be "who is gaming the system?" and how do we get the government to put an end to it, not the colour or religion issue. To do otherwise is to fall into the dirty little outrage game the government want us to.

The point is, these things are orchestrated by those who rule over us to keep us all focused on something other than what THEY are up to



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn

Alas, I fear you are one of a very small minority.



Actually you got it backwards. Four Muslims have responded. Only one is being hostile. And I'm more than certain the ones who have not responded disagree with the hostile one as much as I and the others responding in this thread.


Originally posted by Cythraul

Sadly, it is my opinion that multi-culturalism is fundamentally impossible. Each culture and religion has its own laws and traditions... and while one law is being upheld, another is likely to be undermined. This results in a lawless state.



Multi-culturalism is possible. Just look at Malaysia. We're a success story of multi-racial and multi-cultural harmony. The trick is to celebrate our diversity, instead of criticizing it.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
The point is, these things are orchestrated by those who rule over us to keep us all focused on something other than what THEY are up to


Exactly. Whilst I'm not a fan of Islam, its adherents are wrongly being used as a diversion. If the powers-that-be wanted to create a distraction from their misdoings, what would be the best way? Riots? Civil unrest? - yes! And all of this can be achieved by turning one segment of society against another.

Hence I try to see the whole picture, whilst not forgetting that big problems can be avoided by keeping an eye on the tiny details within that big picture.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:30 AM
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I wanted to share with you something Islam Preaches from the Quraan that the Media will NEVER show you:


62 "Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve".
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #62)

The Media wants people to think that Muslims hate the other faiths. This is clear evidence right out of the Holy Quraan itself that what the Media says is an uneducated attempt and creating hate and animosity amongst the people.

Peace



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


Unfortunately, we don't have the same situation in the UK.

Instead, rightly or wrongly, ghettos have arisen with different cultures living in their own little bubble.
I understand why people want to live close to those of their own culture, but it has caused division.

Another problem is local authorities, as well as the government - a few years ago when I was working in Birmingham we had the council wanting to rename christmas (to winter festival or some such nonsense) in case "minorities found it offensive"
The upshot was that the decision was overturned because some minority communities found it offensive to have it renamed - in other words, the sikh, hindu and muslim communities saved christmas!

This type of thing does nothing to break down barriers - a fact the minority communities know only too well.
Instead, the council breeds discontent by trying to implement these things, and it takes sensible minority leaders to speak out about them.

I've found that most people, whether of a different culture or not, are sensible, tolerant people.
Yet we still have a hardcore of radicals, racists, extremists (call them what you will) in every ethnic group - and it's these which sow the seeds of dissent.



[edit on 5/2/2008 by budski]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to budski



If britain were racist, you wouldn't have the freedom to spew your bile.


Yes come here and live as a Muslim. Than I will see if you repeat the same words.Wont be very funny when you won’t get a job and got a family to feed.


I work with plenty of Muslims, in fact everyone I can think of earns more than me and I'm on good wedge. The one's who drive taxi's never seem to be particulary skilled, so don't just expect to land a job because your muslim. besides, Taxi driving can be lucrative, so I'm told.

As for your threats of "1000 times worse" than France, well, expect a reaction by both Police and the Public a 1000 times worse too.

There's an old saying I can think of that somes up the English:

"Step on an Enlgishmans toes once and he'll apoligise. Step on them again and he'll apologise and move out the way. Step on them a third time and he'll kick the crap out of you with no warning"

Just a friendly heads up matey, your only 2% of the population and whilst in Southall or Staines in might look like your a majority and you feel safe in your community, the UK is a big place my friend and we don't take kindly to people taking the piss.

Just be warned, that's all.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Dock6
 



Look at the immigration problems in the US, Spanish are the biggest growing minority in this nation and the illegals are becoming the biggest problem facing our nations now falling economy.BTW I am spanish

[edit on 4-2-2008 by marg6043]


WRONG! the problems in the USA are Mexicans,Central and south Americans
not the Spanish... i am Spanish pure Spanish from Spain! not south American or mexican please get you facts right please before you insult someone.



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