Atheist Chat v1.1

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Because those who are not for us are against us.

That's not true. Whether Jesus said it or not. I am not "for" you, but I am not against you either. That's the type of thinking that makes it difficult for people with different beliefs to be able to live in harmony.

As far as which religion bother me the most (or whatever the exact question was), I don't think about religion that much for me to have a least favorite. They're all pretty equally irrelevant to me.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
What do you mean?

i mean that we aren't necessarily against you if we're not with you.

the world isn't black and white
it isn't even shades of gray
look around you, the world is full of colors

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the world isn't black and white
it isn't even shades of gray
look around you, the world is full of colors

MIMS! You sound like Confucius!

I shall now deem the above quote a MIMSism from the mouth of MIMSfucius!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
look around you, the world is full of colors

It's just the illusion of colours, mate. From a technical perspective, there's no such thing as colours.

Wiki on Colors (I hate that spelling). It's all basically light that we can see. Kind of makes you think...

...oh, I'm getting philosophical with that metaphor of yours.

A very interesting video of a phone-in discussion between an atheist and a theist. They discuss the nature of knowledge and belief. Watch till the end, it's priceless...





[edit on 29-2-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


wow...just wow. well, people tend to go off the edge when they talk about they believe that deeply...

reply to post by melatonin


That was SO GOOD! I love it! Thanks for posting that. That guy is a really good debater.

ok, elections are rolling around soon and in some countries they've already come and gone, so i think this is a good time to talk about political aspects of not believing in god, mainly discrimination

has anyone here encountered discrimination for being an atheist?

i have once, i was told that i "wasn't wanted" for a job at mcdonald's because i didn't go to church.
...i then realized that accepting the job wasn't a priority, so i didn't make a fuss.

i've also encountered hostility when refusing to say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance, from both students and teachers alike.

Not an imperative but an observation

First all, thanks and kudos to madnessinmysoul for reviving Atheist Chat.

Just to remind ourselves of the ground rules: this is the thread on which we atheists discuss issues of importance to us and bearing upon our atheism. Of course, any ATS member can participate, and say what they please. I would merely recommend that atheist members stick to the issues they are interested in and ignore off-topic blether from the Armies of the Faithful.

Having made that recommendation, I immediately deviate from it to take issue with this:

Originally posted by Clearskies
Religion Must Be Destroyed, Atheist Alliance Declares: Science must ultimately destroy organized religion, according to some of the leading atheist writers and intellectuals who spoke at a recent atheist conference in Northern Virginia...

Ma'am, the English word 'must' can be used in more than one way. With the hypocrisy and dishonesty typical of religious activists, the author of that article is playing on its versatility to make it look as if prominent members of the atheist community are calling for scientists to unite and make war on religion.

However, the true meaning of 'must' in the sentence

Science must ultimately destroy organized religion

is that the advance of scientific knowledge must inevitably destroy religion.

And so it must, just as Naples must inevitably be destroyed if Mount Vesuvius explodes, or night must inevitably follow day for as long as Earth spins and the Sun burns.

That headline has been slyly crafted, with the dishonesty typical of a certain type of religious mind, to make the statement imply that 'science' is a conspiracy whose object is to destroy religion, or that science must destroy religion in order to succeed and prosper itself.

Neither is true. Science is not an army, a church or a popular movement. It is simply a way of finding out truth. The only thing it destroys is ignorance, but that alone is quite enough to make it fatal to religion. Moreover, science has survived and grown in strength and power in the face of centuries of religious persecution, so it clearly does not need to destroy religion to prosper.

Some atheists do hope for the end of religion. I am one such atheist. Religion is an evolutionary side-effect, a kind of deformity that manifests itself as infantilism, delusion, hatred and strife. The sooner humanity is rid of it the better. But we atheists are brainy people (that is why we are atheists) and understand that nothing is needed, to bring about the death of faith, but knowledge.

The enthusiastically religious know it too. Why do you think they are so down on science?

Edit to add: I see I'm a bit late to the party; MIMS has already dealt with the confusion sown by the author of the piece Clearskies quoted. Never mind; let this stay. It won't hurt to remind ourselves that religious folk lie and twist the truth with the best of them, and that some atheists (raises hand) would indeed like to see the end of religion and will do what they can -- peacefully, decently and honestly -- to be rid of it.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Astyanax]

Well, if you wanna see the more extreme problems of mixing religion and politics (especially prior to elections), you can have a look at this post of mine about the situation in an east coast state of my country. Not good. :shk:

[edit on 6/3/2008 by Beachcoma]

reply to post by Beachcoma
We have the same or worse in my country -- and not a Muslim or Christian in sight.

just stopped by to share this ongoing story of discrimination against the atheists in foxholes that so many are apt to deny the existence of...

Atheist Soldier Denied Promotion For Being Atheist...

According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position.

they couldn't bond over a friendly game of some sort involving a ball, frisbee, or other sporting gear?

Hall responded that religion is not a requirement of leadership, even though the sergeant wondered how he had rights if atheism wasn't a religion.Hall said atheism is protected under the Army's chaplain's manual.

but here's the meat of the issue...
i've actually seen this trumpeted very often, and it tends to be accompanied by a smile of self-satisfaction...

how are we to address this ignorant sentiment?

astanax.....

The science you talk about being studied will destroy our planet.... many saints predicted this from years decades ago..... nuclear weapons..

The fact is God will not go away... 2000 years of saints miracles and saints who have seen God work in their lives.... I myself have seen miracles, not little ones but big miracles....

Religion doesn't cause hate, hypocrites do..

God said to love everybody uncluding our enemies...

how do you go wrong with that?

Yet communistic athiest are not taught to love their enemies but to kill and hate them....

that just shows you that only God loves anybody.... He is the only one who cares and thats why he taught such perfection...

and about the wars religion has caused.... Its mutual circumstances..

The fact is that if the world was full of athiestic communist who had nuclear weapons at their disposal, are you saying the world would be fine?


No. They too would blow each other up.... Its common sense...


peace.

Uhm, I dont know anything at all, since scientifically we cannot prove either way, so I dont see the point in being so assured about things when even science doesn't know what is going on.
Im not saying all atheists are scientists,(nor that all scientists are atheists) but in the atheists that are not scientific about their understandings of their beliefs, their atheism is just as religious as a person with blind faith.
There really isn't anything either side can argue to convince one of either belief without them both coming to terms with each other.

There is always reason and observation though, we can seek out a lot of truth without getting into quantum physics or spirituality, it seems arguing who is right proves we are both wrong, since both forget to factor in each other. This is not always the case though, and these days, a lot of quantum physicists are rethinking the god concept all together.

Let us not forget, that spirituality often funds or supports academics; why it should not go both ways in an honest search for truth, is beyond me.

Kind of ironic the statement, I am atheist VS I am a theist.
the only difference is the space between...



[edit on 8-3-2008 by psychedeliack]

JiT, either stay on topic or get right out of this thread. i'm not going to put up with it

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
The science you talk about being studied will destroy our planet.... many saints predicted this from years decades ago..... nuclear weapons..

anything can be used for both good and evil. you can use nuclear technology to create energy or level a city, it's the choice of the individual...

and many people have been saying nukes are going to kill us, not "saints"

The fact is God will not go away... 2000 years of saints miracles and saints who have seen God work in their lives.... I myself have seen miracles, not little ones but big miracles....

uh huh...yet not a single miracle has been proven...

and remember all those saints who were sainted as martyrs...their
martyrdom being used as sacrifices for jewish rituals...which never happened...
the blood libel saints destroy all integrity the institution of sainthood has

Religion doesn't cause hate, hypocrites do..

"he who is not with me is against me" is a phrase that incites a lot of hatred...

God said to love everybody uncluding our enemies...

how do you go wrong with that?

he also said that slaughtering the middianites was a swell thing to do, included the mass rape that followed

Yet communistic athiest are not taught to love their enemies but to kill and hate them....

communistic atheists?

question for the atheists here, are you communists?
i sure as hell aren't...

and another question, are we, as atheists, taught to kill and hate our enemies?
for that matter, are we, as atheists, taught anything?

that just shows you that only God loves anybody.... He is the only one who cares and thats why he taught such perfection...

i've read the bible, it's far from perfection in its teachings...

and about the wars religion has caused.... Its mutual circumstances..

that's all you have? no actual argument?

The fact is that if the world was full of athiestic communist who had nuclear weapons at their disposal, are you saying the world would be fine?

well, the real communists sure as hell didn't and they had access to the largest amount of nuclear weapons ever...
have you ever read about the cold war?

No. They too would blow each other up.... Its common sense...

no, it actually isn't...self-destruction is the opposite

now, seriously, get out of this thread. you're here to do nothing but spread ignorant and off topic ideas.

reply to post by psychedeliack


well, i can see where you're coming from...but you're dead wrong

i think you'd be hard pressed to find an atheist that is certain that there is no god

even dawkins says "almost certain" because we allow for the possibility that we're wrong.
we are agnostic atheists, we don't know either way, but we don't see any particularly convincing arguments to believe in the existence of god.

[edit on 3/9/08 by madnessinmysoul]

reply to post by JesusisTruth

The name's Astyanax. You may call me Scamandrius for short.

What you say in your post is familiar enough, so familiar indeed that it no longer has any meaning to me. What I say seems to hold some meaning for you, however, since you appear to be offended and upset by it. Well, this is Atheist Chat; someone whose handle proclaims that Jesus is Truth is likely to find much here to offend and upset them.

Atheist Chat is a thread in which we atheists talk about issues of interest to us. Anyone of any persuasion is welcome to express an opinion on these issues; if you have one, post away and welcome. But if you're here simply to tell us how wrong we are and how God lives on in spite of our unbelief, you are wasting our time as well as your own.

What about madnessinmysoul's question: how serious a problem is discrimination against atheists in the military and what should be done about it? May we have your views?

reply to post by Astyanax


let's expand the question to include discrimination in general?

does anyone here have a story in which they've been discriminated against?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

To tell the truth, I've never experienced any institutional discrimination against me as a result of my lack of belief. I went to a Christian school but I wasn't confirmed in my irreligiousness until I my late teens. I studied Godless physics at university and when I was away from the lecture theatre I hung with arty longhairs among whom belief in a Supreme Being would have been more conducive than disbelief to ostracism. And my early career was in advertising, a church whose liturgy is concerned only with gross rating points, creative awards and the almighty Agency Commission.

The truth is I'm rather more predatory than preyed-upon in this regard. That highbrow, tolerant Anglican school of mine had a tradition of getting representatives of other denominations and faiths to address us after Tuesday prayers, and in the question-and-answer sessions that followed these I became somewhat notorious among my schoolfellows for chewing up Baptist pastors, Hindu philosophers, Bah'ai preachers and missionaries from the Children of God. It was good training for an argumentative adulthood.

reply to post by Astyanax


I didn't see your post.
This is what was discussed on another thread;

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

stick to the point: where is the conspiracy of atheists to overthrow christianity?

The New Republic

Not that there aren't clues. Harris, for instance, seeks nothing less than to "demolish the intellectual and moral pretensions of Christianity." To this end, he would have public schools "announce the death of God" to their students- -a development that would mark the end of the government's theological neutrality and inaugurate a time of outright antagonism toward the religious beliefs of citizens. Anticipating, moreover, that religious liberals might balk at such tactics, Harris asserts that "the religious moderate is nothing more than a failed fundamentalist" whose attachment to tolerance convinces too many in our society to restrain themselves from loudly proclaiming that "the Bible and the Koran both contain mountains of life-destroying gibberish.

Dawkins said religion is like a brain virus, that should be gotten rid of;

Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it.

I MUST put these quotes up!





[edit on 10-3-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies

Do you regard those reported statements as evidence of a conspiracy?

Is it possible you're missing something?

Can you tell what it might be?