What's so sinful about the Knowledge Tree???

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
But...

If one had knowledge of Good and Evil, and another didn't have that knowledge.... Wouldn't it be 100% possible for the one with the knowledge to control the one without the knowledge?

It's like teaching a monkey to break into peoples houses and steal valuable things, and bring them back. The monkey has no clue that what he is doing is evil, so he does it anyway. He's being controlled like a slave to do evil, because he doesn't know any better.

To me, this would be a perfect plan for the devil.

Actually he couldn't do evil, because it, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. So although the monkey could be used like a slave to perform duties the slavemaster believes to be evil, the monkey itself couldn't actually do anything evil.

And, unless the monkey lives in the Garden of Eden where all needs are met, then he actually has a concept of good and evil. Although his is less complicated than that of modern human. To the monkey treats are good, and the lack of food or abuse by the slave master is evil.

If you put your young influenceable child in the same room with and older corrupt adult, would you blame the ingnorant child for being influenced by the corrupt adult, or your self for creating the situation?

hello,

I read your post and am going to attempt to make a reply that everyone can understand. obviously not everyone will believe the same way I do but we're all entitled to our beliefs. I too study religion and phiolosophy and have a very strong biased opinion on christianity since i am a die hard christian. first of all in my opinion i don't believe it was literally the fruit although it could be but the "sin" that adam and eve committed wasn't the sin of eating the fruit it was the sin of disobeying the commandment that the lord had given them not to eat the fruit. Sin is anything that exalts itself above/against the knowledge and wisdom of God. The origin of sin came from lucifer himself when he said " I will exalt my throne above God" he wanted to make himself greater than God. In the bible satans sin was Pride, he then got 1/3 of the angels to believe in his cause and made war in heaven against God. I believe we can even go deeper than that by saying all sin has a root of pride, exalting their actions against Gods laws in essence saying that my way is better.


Keeper

reply to post by Keeper of Kheb


Yes although you're right, you can still go deeper and simplify understandings. You can also associate this with the understandings of Jesus, that should be the case regardless.

SIN: it isn't the eating of the fabled "Apple". It isn't the tree or the knowledge or the disobeying. You can disobey god and through asking be forgiven and the transgression is forgoten as if it was never there.

The nature of SIN is! There are only two ways. As self willed creatures you are all given the choice. You follow your own will or you try to follow along with the will of the creator.

Lucifer denyed God existed and stated his "will" be above that of God. That was the fall and the sin origin.

Adam and Eve meant well, but they assimulated in their own will to pergress the understandings of mankind rather then following after God's will that they knew very well.

This is Why Jesus said time and time and time again that it was "GOD'S WILL" or "The will of the Father" that was the priority.

Jesus, always focused on the attemepting to follow the will of God, our father, and this is how he was found sinless among men.

Maybe incarnating into a body of flesh and blood is the eating of the Tree.

Possibly I am the Tree and You are the Tree.

The tree is the body.

reply to post by interestedalways


You are on to something you know.



The "Tree of Knowledge" and the fruit was a phyical set of understandings from beings.

The taking of the fruit wasn't a fruit at all it was a knowledge or thinking/understanding from the being know as the snake.

Strangely enough I find that the bad fruit is still in use today in other was such as lies about "reptilian NWO"... lol


And then again, the "tree of knowledge" might be understood as that knowledge contained in the phyical aspect of our DNA.

But I didn't really want to make it all that complicated.

In essance, the fruit is the sin of rejection of the will of the creator for one's self assertion of their own personalize will as "above".

It isn't really all that complicated, your response.

I was thinking along the same lines that the tree of Life could actually be
Light.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Shihulud simply because God isn't almighty like many people think.
He created us but do have limited control over our thoughts and actions

[edit on 18-1-2008 by TheOracle]

Then why call it god?

And why doesn't your god have all the attributes of other peoples gods?


G

^^^^God created us, and God is all powerful. God's given us free will to draw closer to our father creator. God doesn't want to force you to listen to your creator. You are given to do so as a choice.

its a sin because god wanted man to be dumb creatures who walked in his garden and made silly noises

reply to post by Incarnated


I'd say the sin is in the disobedience. God said no, satan said "Go!" and instead of sticking to God, they decided to "be as gods, knowing good and evil." They only knew good, because until then, they only knew God.

God said no, because He wanted them to know Him in His Goodness. They said no to His no, and for that He said to them GO! You got that, bro'? I hope so.

God wants no other gods before Him, because other gods are not gods at all, but mere machinations of imaginations. Or demons and devils. Or, in the case of Humanism and Communism, mere people idolized by other people. And then they die like the other people. gods wouldn't die, now would they?

So snakey says to Eve to eat and be like a god. Eve tells Adam to eat because it's nice. And Gods says you naughty kids, in my house you obey my rules. So go out into the World and live according to the destruction that satan's rules shall bring. He even cursed the soil for Adam's sake, so that he will need to work to get his food. Until then, every meal was on the house.

reply to post by Keeper of Kheb


As the saying goes: "Sin is centered around I."

reply to post by Incarnated


Adam and eve were cast out of Eden for gaining knowledge by eating a peice of fruit. So 'God' made some one feel pain and sorrow and all other bad emotions because they gained a gram of knowledge, this is not a kind god, this is a 'God' that keeps its flcok under control throguh there own stupidity and fear.

ProTo FF

Originally posted by ProTo Fire Fox
reply to post by Incarnated

 

Adam and eve were cast out of Eden for gaining knowledge by eating a peice of fruit. So 'God' made some one feel pain and sorrow and all other bad emotions because they gained a gram of knowledge, this is not a kind god, this is a 'God' that keeps its flcok under control throguh there own stupidity and fear.

ProTo FF

I can clearly see you've done about zero amount of study on this topic, so I can't help to wonder why you discuss it at all.

I think this is a great representation of the truth behind the matter. You've taken one small little factoid out of context and then you devlop a whole idology around your choice misunderstanding of the reality of the story.

further the notion that the fruit of the tree of knowledge was a pychotropic drug, i also suggest reading "Food of the Gods: The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge A Radical History of Plants, Drugs, and Human Evolution" by Terence McKenna

simply put he suggests monkey/man brain may have evolved after eating psychotropic drugs while foraging for food on the jungle floor... imagine, if you will, monkeys on a trip...

Isn't that amazing. We've got as many interpretations of "The Fall" as we have people on this thread.

I have just one thing to say:
From a Christian viewpoint (not mine):
God is perfect, omnipresent, omnipotent, all-knowing, yada yada yada. If this is true the Bible would NOT be open to interpretation. The Bible would be perfect.

Some say the problems with the Bible is caused by the fact that it was only inspired by God, but written by man. I say, Hogwash! God is omnipresent so if the Bible is His word he would've had a hand in it all the way and it would still be perfect. So there you have it. PROOF that the Bible is not the word of God.

Originally posted by Lannock
If this is true the Bible would NOT be open to interpretation. The Bible would be perfect.

Some say the problems with the Bible is caused by the fact that it was only inspired by God, but written by man. I say, Hogwash! God is omnipresent so if the Bible is His word he would've had a hand in it all the way and it would still be perfect. So there you have it. PROOF that the Bible is not the word of God.

So are you/would you be the type of parent who wouldn't buy your children new clothes because they would eventually get torn or stained? Are you the type of parent that wouldn't buy your children toys because they would just end up getting broken?

Same with God. We are the ones that get things wrong- not Him. He's not going to withhold something from us that we need. And the Bible is immensely important to us as it explains the way to salvation: Jesus.

Originally posted by AshleyDSame with God. We are the ones that get things wrong- not Him. He's not going to withhold something from us that we need. And the Bible is immensely important to us as it explains the way to salvation: Jesus.

So what are you saying. The Bible is the "inerrant Word of God", but because we wrote it, it isn't the "inerrant Word of God" anymore? It has been rewritten and retranslated so many times it cannot be trusted as the Word of God?

I haven't been sleeping well lately, so forgive me if I'm not getting your meaning. You're not getting my point. God has always been around and still is, if the Bible is his Word and has been inspired by him why did he allow it to get to it's current state (a total mess of myth, contradictions, errors, etc)?

I believe it is referring to a certain type of plant(s) ..
certain hallucinogenic plants have a very strong effect on pattern recognition and interpretation of patterns which could have easily formulated the concepts or patterns we actually have come to know as right and wrong.

There is much evidence for this occurring in nature and I am almost certain it is how we have come to know the world around us.

It is well know that '___' (from Dr. Rick Strassmans book) has caused many people to report meetings with aliens and other spirit entities.
and it is also well known and documented that psilocybe/psilocybin causes a profound 'spiritual' experience in almost, if not all people who partook in the studies.
As a people FROM nature, I would highly imagine that we would have used that nature to evolve us to this point.
When some people noticed what was evolving the species and took it upon themselves to ..... stunt the growth of a species.

Now I Would Say That is a conspiracy.


...

To further elaborate .. our brain actually excretes it's own nn-'___' during sleep and death/near death.. and possibly during other times. It could explain some cave paintings and could also explain some current sightings, these plants could have given us GREAT and tremendous knowledge.
Our history is filled with many learnings and many paths, we have come along way and not all of us have had the same experience of this planet because we all have had different communications with it and our surroundings including our body.
They could have aided our development on such a level we have no idea, especially when we mix this understanding with quantum physics and quantum biology.
The human body is AMAZING.

[edit on 2/15/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by Lannock
God has always been around and still is, if the Bible is his Word and has been inspired by him why did he allow it to get to it's current state (a total mess of myth, contradictions, errors, etc)?

How do you know they're myths? We don't really know such a thing. Contradictions? Most of these are resolved once you reference the original languages of the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. Errors? I know of very few errors once we do our research into the texts. In secondary translations thing get a little more difficult (as with all literary works translated into another language) but most of these errors don't even exist when you do the research.

Not saying the Bible is perfect today with our secondary modern English translations but it still gets the message of salvation across loud and clear: Jesus. So what I was trying to say is that God is not going to withhold such an important message from us because people would commit scribal errors, mistranslate a word, or not know how many horses and chariots Solomon owned. This might help: HERE and HERE.