What's so sinful about the Knowledge Tree???

To understand the truth one must have the knowledge to alow one to understand what it is. So in the bible and many other religious texts there was an event of man and woman eating from the tree of knowledge, and this was identified as wrong.

However, what's wrong with eating the fruit of knowledge. Isn't knowledge the way to understanding truth? I'd say so. Do you agree? Well let's look back and see where the errror be.

All things that have ever been and will ever be is the knowledge. It is the tree. It is that which makes you understand things as through the eyes of God. So what can be so sinful of that?

Well, the tree is the truthfulness of the knowledge, and to understand the truth in the knowledge the fruit of the tree can't be taken away. It can not be pulled off and eaten, because unless you follow the fruit through the branches to the trunk and into the root system you fall into error, and that is the darkness and the sin.

So you see brothers and sisters, if you want to know the truth of something, you need sit under the tree and not just take what is not yours to from the fruits of it. That's the sin.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Incarnated]

This belongs in BTS, is there a section over there for preaching?
There is no conspiracy here, it does not belong in Conspiracies in Relgion.

People who want to preach constantly really should pony up the money for their own website.

reply to post by Legalizer



I'm thinking you just don't get it. This is far from "preaching". What I've said contrasts many religious understandings of the subject matter. Many aspectual religious peoples believe there's evil in knowledge. That not being the light I try to introduce a fuller concept against the conspiracy against knowledge by religion.

So umm if eating (considering for a moment that this would be true) the fruit of the tree of knowledge didn't really give Adam and Even any knowledge (at least thats what I understood from Your post) then why was it considered wrong by the Allmighty ?

And why was the punishment (banishment from eden) so harsh instead of doing like most well educated parrents (and we do have to agree that God is our parrent ) would do and teach the child why it was wrong to do what they did .

I thought that the Allmighty should know that punishing somebody with a mind of a baby (even thou Adam and Eve were created as a mature body , their mind was still a few days old right ? So even assuming they knew all the basics skills like walking , talking , eating , etc... their mind was still a babies one ).

So how can You punish a baby for something that they have no idea about ?

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Thill]

nothing, its just getting lost in it can be tricky.
(the tool becomes the master)

Peace

dAlen

You are preaching.

You have no facts to back up any of your claims.
You are talking about fictional trees, and fictional knowledge.

There is no conspiracy here, therefore it doesn't belong in this forum section.

You are not saying much I haven't heard before.
Just because you think its "new" doesn't make it so.

You should stick to the creative writing section, where fiction is more appreciated
and at least there you won't come off as a sermonizing fanatic...as much.

Well, I dont know if this belongs on this forum or not, but while it is here I find the subject interesting enough to add my two cents. Bear in mind that I study religion and philosophy, but am not specifically tied to any one religion or philosophy. I like them all, and I think they all contain a core message from the Divine to us that varies in specifics but not in essence. I am neither hostile to, nor "pro" Christian.

"Original Sin" is a "Sin" because it marks the beginning of duality in human thinking, but apparently is not reflective of Divine creation. So it is a "sin" because it is inconsistent with Divine truth. So, duality was created as a condition of the human mind, and we began to judge. ie: Splitting "What Is" into "What is Good/What is Evil." (Notice when God is creating he calls EVERYTHING "good." There is no contrast or opposite.) If you consider this for a bit, you will see an answer to that age old question, "If God is loving and Good, how can he allow Evil?" Well, the answer would be, he doesnt. Everything is Good to God. We created Suffering, Death, Evil, etc. with this change in human perception. They are perceptual states, and not reflective of Divine reality.

So, in essence, the desire to KNOW created evil simply because the act of "knowing" requires contrast, if I know what is "Good" then something must be "Not good." Creating Evil, clearly, is a Sin. And unfortunately, whatever the eating of that fruit represents, either some actual physical event or some allegorical one, it is a heritable condition as all that followed are also "cursed" with minds that perceive dualistically. (This/That) Of course this includes Life/Death which is why God warned them not to "eat" that fruit to begin with.

It is also, I believe, why Jesus was so adamant about refraining from judgment in the New Testament. He believed we could be redeemed. Prior to Jesus, there is no path to redemption, no specific instruction. (In the Christian tradition that is, the Rig Veda dates to approx 2000 BC or earlier)

All the major religions that I have studied have some tale about humanity's fall into dualistic thinking, and most also contain some hints about getting back out of it. Maybe someday we will.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



Thanks for that. I think it was right on topic.

We can debate what is and isn't "this thread". Though your statements state contrasting views also to the question I posed as this thread's title.

The Gnostic's interpretation consider the fruit to be a mushroom which grows on the roots of pine trees. The mushroom provided a hallucinogenic experience, which some believed provided them insight to a world that is otherwise unknown. So whether this provided insight to secret knowledge about the world or just provided a bad drug habit, it was considered a "No-No" and the fruit of the tree (mushroom) was forbidden. I don't necessarily buy the complete Gnostic view of everything, but for the fellow conspiracists, it worth checking out to get an alternative view of this topic and many others related.

Here is the link to movie that explains this alternative view a lot better than I just did.
tiny.cc...

reply to post by Incarnated


If there is such a thing as a knowledge tree (literally or metaphorically), and there is such a thing as sin, then it has to do with taking knowledge that you are not ready to use constructively.

The Tree was called the "Tree of Knowledge of Good & Bad".

Who has the right to determine what is good or what is bad? Is it not the creator of all things? Adam & Eve had the opportunity to demonstrate many things by adhering to Gods Instructions not to eat the fruit..not to even touch it.

They had the opportunity to demonstrate their obedience, their faith in their creator, their loyalty to him, and most imortantly their recognition of his Soverignty....His Right to rule.

This simple restriction from God did not create any undue burden on them, they were not lacking in anything, He had given them everything they needed to lead a happy & productive life.

Had they obeyed God and demonstrated their unfailing integrity & loyalty to Him, they would have been granted the privelege of eating from the other tree in the Garden, the one called the "Tree of Life", symbolically granting them everlasting life.

Adam & Eve however rejected Gods Soverignty, His Right to rule, and determined that the restriction he gave them was not one they wanted to follow. Remember it was Satan that told Eve the lie that if she ate, she would become "Like God" knowing good & bad...that is having the right to decide for herself regardless of the creators restrictions.

The course that man has taken down though history in rejecting Gods righteous standards has not proved to be beneficial to man. Instead it has led to untold misery, hardship, sickness, disease & death.

this was a simple test of their faith & love for their creator.





[edit on 17-1-2008 by Sparky63]

IMO

Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden is a symbolic representation of the state of humanity before the "fall". They lived in complete innocence, complete happiness, and as such had no knowledge of suffering, pain, or evil.

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents an act which took away the innocence and purity from humanity, and led them into this valley of tears where suffering and destruction are commonplace. By being exposed to suffering and pain they now had knowledge of both good and evil, as promised by God.

The gate to the garden of Eden however, was not closed. There is a Cherubim who with his fiery sword guards against the unworthy, but welcomes those who seek the Tree of Life. The Tree of Knowledge caused our departure from Eden, through the Tree of Knowledge we can come back inside.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

So let's see. who and what would want us to look at knowledge as a BAD thing... let me think... ohhh I know... people who don't want to be questioned about the things they do. To these people it is OK for them to have the knowledge and the rest should sit at their feet and beg.

The bible is the construction of fables and rules by men! Manipulative Men at that. Viva intellectualism... viva knowledge.

Through knowledge the pains of man are cured, through knowledge the future of man depends, through knowledge we will all be kinder and better to each other.. dogma is mindless.

reply to post by Incarnated


It's up to you to find a better explanation to the pain of being a God enclosed in a body.

I would question God's motives in creating the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the first place.

Or why the Serpent was created and/or allowed in the Garden.

I think we were supposed to eat from the tree.

We couldn't have free will without the knowledge of disobedience.

Originally posted by Sparky63
The Tree was called the "Tree of Knowledge of Good & Bad".

Who has the right to determine what is good or what is bad? Is it not the creator of all things? Adam & Eve had the opportunity to demonstrate many things by adhering to Gods Instructions not to eat the fruit..not to even touch it.

How did they know it was a bad thing to do if they didn't have knowledge of 'good and bad'?

If I tell someone who doesn't know right from wrong to not do something, should I be surprised they do that same thing. It's rather like telling someone not to think about a pink elephant, or telling a three year old not to eat the chocolates on the plate I just put on the table.

The story simply demonstrates the fact they didn't have such knowledge.

To me anyway.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by melatonin]

In a garden of long ago there stood a tree of the word.
It shown the most lushous fruit, and it was the freshest
but only while attached to the root.

Unknowing a pair took and carried away from there
this shiny special treat, but in their unknowing through fruit still glowing
when it was bit into it wasn't so sweet.

It did make that couple sick, and it was done by a trick
the blood began to flow out of the thorns within that prick.

The fruit although perfect to eat, doesn't stay good and will not taste sweet, and it will trun to pain within, because of the wage of sin, if you're not standing beneath the tree.

Like pearls that turn to dust
or the treasure that is given to rust
you quest for partical knowing is lust
and this is why you must reconnect to the tree.

Incarnated has already proven that he doesn't actually know everything about what he tries to "preach". Which I find hilarious because he tries hard to make himself out to be a "God" figure. He also loves to take what people say and twist it around.

Someone said he should move his threads to the creative writing area? They belong in the trash can. There's nothing creative about anything he says. He has a God complex. He thinks he's above everyone here and can't back up anything he says and never will.

In all honesty he's posting these threads just to get under your skin. When one thread of his dies because people get tired of it and ignore it, he's pretty quick to make another one. Ignore him and eventually (hopefully) he'll get the point that we're not as stupid as he thinks and leaves.

I'm surprised he hasn't been banned or warned. Especially with the amount of people he disrespects here on a daily basis. Don't bother challenging him with any questions because he just ignores it and moves on.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by nightmare_david]

Knowledge is a sin because the more of it you have, the less you need God. Obviously, any self-respecting supreme being would have a bone to pick with that, and kick you right out of Eden for your transgressions in that regard.

reply to post by Nohup


Actually I'm thinking all "true knowledge" comes from the creator ("God"). God therefore would be the true "tree of knowledge" and that removing a piece of the "Knowledge" (the fruit) out of context of "the tree" is the "sin".

Without the knowledge of everything your thinking you understand something really boils down to not understand in your understandings.

That at least was the point I was making.