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What's so sinful about the Knowledge Tree???

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posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin

How did they know it was a bad thing to do if they didn't have knowledge of 'good and bad'?

If I tell someone who doesn't know right from wrong to not do something, should I be surprised they do that same thing. It's rather like telling someone not to think about a pink elephant, or telling a three year old not to eat the chocolates on the plate I just put on the table.
[edit on 17-1-2008 by melatonin]


Adam knew what death was. He had lived long enough to see animals die.
He had no doubt seen plants die. He was an intelligent man that clearly new the consequences of disobedience. Adam was not a three yeaor old child, but rather a perfect man who had the capacity to obey his creator. HE was already a free moral agent capable of disobeying also.

The choice was set before him ...He chose wrong.




posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Sparky63
 



What's with this "Adam" Thing?

There's some consepts that state that Adam, in loving his "woman" Eve so much didn't wish for her to carry the shame alone and thus he too did wrong.

Was not Eve the first to "wrong"?

I find it intresting you address Adam above Eve.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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I'm going to tell you something you don't want to read. You must take what I say, and really really really trust it.

Don't take the Bible literal like all the rest of the mistakes(lost souls) do.

The Bible has been edited. The devil edited the Bible and its translation to control you. The devil decived you and many by making you think that the tree of knowledge is evil. The pure truth is, knowledge will set you FREE. Well, guess who doesn't want you free!!

The tree of knowledge of good and evil, once eaten from, or learned from, will reveal to you many truths of the world you live in. The devil does not want you to know those truths, because they will loose control over you. That is why science, and schools, are being controled. He who controls the text books and teachings, controls History, and the World.

Read this webpage....

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

You would be supprized how true it is.




Hosea 4:6; "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."


Basicly Christ said, "what good are you without knowledge?".

If you don't learn about "good and evil" how are you to be one or the other?

[edit on 17-1-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


The sin was disobedience, not knowledge.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by Incarnated
 


The sin was disobedience, not knowledge.


The knowledge was the disobedience for it was the "knowledge" and it's use that was the seperation off the "will of God" and that was the sin.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


The knowledge may have resulted in separation from God, but the fact that Adam was told specifically not to do something and he did it anyway, was the original sin.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by Sparky63
 



What's with this "Adam" Thing?

There's some consepts that state that Adam, in loving his "woman" Eve so much didn't wish for her to carry the shame alone and thus he too did wrong.

Was not Eve the first to "wrong"?

I find it intresting you address Adam above Eve.


Don't read too much into that. As I stated in my previous post, they both rejected Gods soverignty.
It is interesting thought o consider what would have happened if Eve ate but Adam refused to do so.

Would God have provided a new wife for Adam? He would have to if Gods purpose for the earth was to be realized.

However my Adam joining Eve in a rebellious course he condemned all of his children to the same fate he was to suffer. Death..

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


only in unknowing. The absolute of sin is to be found in self willed persuits rather then to be under the trusting faith of the will of God.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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Religious View:

My Idea is that the Tree of Knowledge was Satans successfull attempt to decieve us thus robbing us of our true potential. The "knowledge" given to us made us lazy and reliant on it thus numbing polluting and seperating our body mind and spirit making it harder to become one with God and finding him.

It seperates us from our spiritual being as God intended us to one with!

Look at all the technology that the "knowledge" has "gifted" us with IT IS KILLING US!!


My Cosmic Reptilianesque View:

My Idea is that the Tree of Knowledge was the Reptilians successfull attempt to decieve us thus robbing us of our true potential. The "knowledge" given to us made us lazy and reliant on it numbing polluting and seperating our body mind and spirit to keep us from ascending/evolving as a speciec to the next Density of Life!



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
Adam knew what death was. He had lived long enough to see animals die.
He had no doubt seen plants die. He was an intelligent man that clearly new the consequences of disobedience.


Did he know it was bad? Did he know disobedience was bad?

If they didn't have knowledge of good and bad/evil, then I would assume they didn't. All they were told was "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die". They wouldn't know that death was bad, or that disobedience was bad. They didn't have such knowledge.

I also thought death didn't happen until after the great snake swindle, that all animals ate plants and it was all like some big hippy love in. In genesis itself, it tells us none of what you are saying. That's just you pulling assertions from a warm dark place. But I do accept the bible is like a rorschach blot, and you'll have your own ideas what it all means.

Anyway, I shouldn't be in such threads. The holy banninating flamethrower of Antioch resides in these parts. I know good from bad.

Hwyl fawr.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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OK the knowledge tree is a metaphor, remember that the ENTIRE bible is a metaphor. Except for Jesus, the man did exist and He died for our sins...

Evolution is a tricky concept, for those of you that believe this explanation will really help. For those of you that don;t you will srr why evolution is not going against the bible.

The Genesis story about eating form the tree of knowledge is a metaphor. When they ate from the tree they were filled with knowledge about what is RIGHT AND WRONG! That tree gave them a conscious, even though it was God who gave it because He created the tree.

If we ki9ll someone else there is a conscious that tells you it was wrong, but animals do not realize that because they did eat from the tree!

Evolution did take place but God gave His human creatures a conscious, WE have to do what is right. When that something within you tells you that damn this stealing is wrong, that is the truth. It IS wrong. You're body, no your soul is telling you that.

Let me tell you guys something, when you die you lose like seven pounds from your body at that instant of death, that there is no coming back from. Why do you think people who do wake up, wake up brain dead??

The soul departs from the body it is a known fact that you do lose that weight. I just wish more people could believe that. Why don;t atheist take that into consideration, because they CHOOSE to HEAR what they want. Don;t we all, but please as we are all waking up to the truth of our government,

WAKE UP TO THE TRUTH OF OUR SPIRITUALITY!!



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by nightmare_david
Incarnated has already proven that he doesn't actually know everything about what he tries to "preach". Which I find hilarious because he tries hard to make himself out to be a "God" figure. He also loves to take what people say and twist it around.

Someone said he should move his threads to the creative writing area? They belong in the trash can. There's nothing creative about anything he says. He has a God complex. He thinks he's above everyone here and can't back up anything he says and never will.

In all honesty he's posting these threads just to get under your skin. When one thread of his dies because people get tired of it and ignore it, he's pretty quick to make another one. Ignore him and eventually (hopefully) he'll get the point that we're not as stupid as he thinks and leaves.

I'm surprised he hasn't been banned or warned. Especially with the amount of people he disrespects here on a daily basis. Don't bother challenging him with any questions because he just ignores it and moves on.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by nightmare_david]


he is the incarnated archangel michael and jesus, as to him they are the same person

so yes he is the long awaited return of the son of man

find his original post and read it

alot of his topics and understandings all come from the book of urantia which he claims to be TRUE

so i wonder why he comes here asking questions

we will never know, to me its a good life but it does get old

ok sorry i went off topic MODS



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by rhombus24
Let me tell you guys something, when you die you lose like seven pounds from your body at that instant of death...

...The soul departs from the body it is a known fact that you do lose that weight.


I heard it was more like a fraction of an ounce or a few ounces- not seven pounds. lol Regardless, it could be fifty pounds for all I care. I'd still have a hard time believing the soul can be measured by earthly instruments. Those few ounces are probably just gas and air.

Please don't get me wrong- I have no doubt there's a soul and afterlife. I just have a hard time believing its been discovered with that method.

[edit on 1/17/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by rhombus24
Let me tell you guys something, when you die you lose like seven pounds from your body at that instant of death...

...The soul departs from the body it is a known fact that you do lose that weight.


I heard it was more like a fraction of an ounce or a few ounces- not seven pounds. lol Regardless, it could be fifty pounds for all I care. I'd still have a hard time believing the soul can be measured by earthly instruments. Those few ounces are probably just gas and air.

Please don't get me wrong- I have no doubt there's a soul and afterlife. I just have a hard time believing its been discovered with that method.

[edit on 1/17/2008 by AshleyD]


7 pounds hahahahaha

its more like 21 grams
just like the movie

that is funny

7 pounds, thats like 5 super burritos and some chips and salsa



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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For once I agree with Blue Raja. Hooray! I think this is the first time. It would be great to have it happen more often.

The sin was disobedience. Adam and Eve died a spiritual death at the moment they ate the forbidden fruit. They knew shame for the first time. Shame at their nakedness. God made the first sacrifice of an animal in order to clothe them with more than a fig leaf. Adam was to blame for the transgression because Eve was created as a helpmate for him. They were to cleave together and become one flesh. He was not by her side when the serpent tempted her and failed to protect her from the serpent's guile.

Adam and Eve were not banished from the Garden for eating the forbidden fruit.



Genesis 3

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Why all the effort to try and understand the nuances of a work of mythology to begin with?



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by whatsup
 


because its interesting and we as humans need prooves (is that a word) and answers to make answers for our own lives

its a sick mental illness and welcome to it

its like wanting to know why the sky is blue



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
its like wanting to know why the sky is blue


Why is the Sky blue?



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin


Did he know it was bad? Did he know disobedience was bad?


Adam & Eve were created in Gods image, obviously this did not refer to their physical likeness. This meant that of all the living things God created on the earth, Man was unique. Man had the capacity to reflect Gods qualities, like love, justice, wisdom....ect. He was created with moral qualities like those of God.



If they didn't have knowledge of good and bad/evil, then I would assume they didn't. All they were told was "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die". They wouldn't know that death was bad, or that disobedience was bad. They didn't have such knowledge.


After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit God said “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.” (Ge 3:22) This apparently did not mean merely having knowledge of what was good and what was bad for them, for the first man and woman already had such knowledge by reason of God’s commands to them.

Furthermore, God’s words at Genesis 3:22 could not pertain to their now knowing what was bad by experience, for God said that they had become like him and he has not learned what is bad by doing it.

Evidently, Adam and Eve got to know what was good and what was bad in the special sense of now judging for themselves what was good and what was bad. They were idolatrously placing their judgment above God’s, disobediently becoming a law to themselves, as it were, instead of obeying God, who has both the right and the wisdom necessary to determine good and bad. So their independent knowledge, or standard, of good and bad was not like that their creator. Rather, it was one that led them to misery.



I also thought death didn't happen until after the great snake swindle, that all animals ate plants and it was all like some big hippy love in.


Where is that stated in the Bible? Surely Adam would have to know what death was in order for him to appreciate the consequences of disobedience.
It would be unjust for God to punish him for something he did not understand. Adam would have observed big fish eating little fish,



In genesis itself, it tells us none of what you are saying. That's just you pulling assertions from a warm dark place. But I do accept the bible is like a rorschach blot, and you'll have your own ideas what it all means.


I would say that the conclusions are reasonable. After all, even my 3 year old knows what death is. Adam was given the assignment of naming the animals, This would have required keen observance of their habits and characteristics.
Where are you pulling your assertions from?

Remember Adam was createrd as a perfect man with a fully developed language. He understood completely what God told him.


[edit on 17-1-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
Where is that stated in the Bible? Surely Adam would have to know what death was in order for him to appreciate the consequences of disobedience.
It would be unjust for God to punish him for something he did not understand. Adam would have observed big fish eating little fish


Take that up with your fundie brothers


Of course you have to assume he knew. But I think some of your more literal mates take later versus about death being a result of sin literally.


Where are you pulling your assertions from?


Like what?

I'm taking the words in Genesis at face value. Thus, when it says something along the lines of 'oh, look, now he's like me, he knows good and bad'. That's what it means. I'm not assuming god sat them down and explained good and bad of not listening to his orders out of text so the story wouldn't all look rather silly.

But, honestly, I don't really care. It's your rorschach blot, interpret away.



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