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Theists of all sorts, please explain this for me.

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posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 03:11 PM
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Oops. Did not realize that. I got the impression that you had not previously accepted Christianity. I was mainly trying to make a point that you can not accept just whatever spirit happens to cross your path. That you need to put it in some kind of context, so that a good spirit would be available.
If you have already been exposed to the "faith" and you do not believe it, then what I was suggesting would not do much good.
The next bit of advice would be to read the letters of Paul to the Romans. You may be able to accept a purely intellectual version of a religion.
Being filled with a spirit may not be the best feeling in the world, and it is not for everyone. I rejected it, for myself. I had a spirit of prophesy enter me and I decided that it was worthless to me. "Preaching to the choire" does not appeal to me. A bunch of people sitting around in a room, speeking in tounges, or prophesying, seems to be of no use. Practical religion seemed to be a better path, to me, and I stopped going to church and looked for people to help out. I decided to not preach to them but just let them know I was a christian, and try to be a good examlpe.

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Clearskies
Why do some people think I'm a man???

You didn't use your photo as your avatar. English is not a gender neutral language. Don't take it personal.

I got saved BEFORE the 'Passion of The Christ'. I never saw a passion play (EVER)

Same here. I left the church over a decade ago. The passion play is a mental activity while reading those Scriptures. Literally acting it out is childish.

God died for us.

Pretended to die. Immortals can't really die. Fictional characters can't really die either, and for the same reason.

God didn't go to hell and be damned forever.

Depends which definition of death you are using.

That would be the only sacrifice you would be satisfied with?

Sacrifice is offensive to me. Your God is offensive to me. But if you are going to sacrifice something, don't take it back, it looks like Indian Giving (excuse the lack of any alternate way of putting it).

If God took one MINUTE off his job, we would be toast.

Threats. Always a good way to keep the ignorant in line.

If Adam and Eve had of eaten from the tree of life, there would be no dying for us, just immortality!

Until one day, you're climbing Mount Everest for kicks and you run out of oranges. It says right in Scripture, Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden to prevent them from eating The Fruit of the Tree of Life (oranges). That's why they died, not from eating the apple. The angels with fiery swords guard the orange tree. Where this is today is anyone's guess.

This is no LEVEL playing field.
God is God. We're not.

You are admitting it's unfair and biased against us, yet appeal to US?!? Why?

God doesn't drink the blood. It covers the mercy seat so that the 'Law' has a covering, a buffer for US humans.

He paints his chair with it. It's totally normal. I've got a blood painted chair myself.

The life is IN the blood.

Not all life has blood. In fact there IS a lot of life IN blood!

...the high priest of Israel had to take th blood of bulls and rams and fowl and put it on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant.

Yeah, I think I read that somewhere.... I think it was in the Qu'ran.

So that God would look over our their sins.

He couldn't just forgive them like any of us. His upper lip isn't stiff enough to overlook anything.

Jesus took his OWN blood up to God as a High Priest, once and for all!

And since He IS God, through the Trinity, He brought His Own Blood up to Himself, His Father, and the Other One, and They painted His chair with it. Makes total sense. And how this forgives anything? I forgive all the time and it never involves any blood.

I've studied a little about the trees actually being angels, the tree of knowledge of good and evil being the devil, and the 'eating' being sexual relations.

Yet another example of Christian prejudice against sexuality and knowledge. Two birds with one stone. It must be a very popular bit of sophistry.

May I ask what kind of church, then?

I'm sure I answered that already. I am forced to repeat myself a lot, and when it doesn't matter, why bother? Do you honestly think a particular denomination is at fault? By my experience every denomination blames all others but their own.

...we don't have more 'praise and worship' than we do preaching at our church.

Still doesn't know what's happened to herself.


posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 01:26 AM

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Your truth is your own, and you do not speak for me or any other persons personal witness.

Witness or hearsay? Truth is independent of personal experience. It is really the origin of truth that concerns us. With you it is authority, but this is a fallacy.

What you have done, is made an assumption, without any substantiating evidence other then what you think in terms of our experience.

It may be true that some of you are not psychotic, but you blend in very well. Thou shalt not dress up like a deer during hunting season.

Perhaps you can show a little courtesy, people might actually regard you with some respect, and that my friend, would be a teaching of Christ 101 for you.

Christians do not respect me whether I am nice or not, it is only a mockery. Soldiers do not respect the Drill Sergeant who is nice to them.

...wears away the hardest of hearts,...

Wrong analogy. Wrong thinking. If I did what you are suggesting, I would be no better than those who came before me.

...slings mud,...

Or maybe it's art, but we wouldn't want God to think we were making an idol now would we?

The words of Love...

Whenever Love is capitalized in Scripture it is translated as agape. Agape is not the same love that ordinary people understand. That is one of the great deceptions of Christ.

The spring of water that come forth from the Truth is the Universal sav that cleans every wound and promotes healing.

Except that it only works on those who are Chosen by God, not the other way around.

And that Brother is the Truth.

Didn't see any.


posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 10:02 AM

quoting Columbus.

"I tell Christians that I was like them, but it is necessary for them, in continuing to maintain their faith that I am wrong, even though I am speaking of myself. I am continuously accused of being a liar."

I do not believe you could have been truely awakened by God.
I think your assessment of yourself as being brainwashed is quite correct.
And I don't have anymore time this morning to add anything further, darn.
Have a great day...

posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 02:01 AM


Concering page 4...your reply to me..

Eve being punnished in the garden by Travail. You replied with"

So the grandma, taken-in by the MLM, goes to jail if she convinces grandpa.

Most of the time non believers and even some believers and preachers use the argument or implication that this condition is not "fair." God is unfair. There is a subtilty that Eve deserved better. Taken to its logical conclusion people as a whole deserve more and better...Im ok ,your ok so to speak. You can see this clearly in videos like Richard Dawkins. This passes for intellect?? Logic and reason. Not!!

Read the is obvious that Adam did not know he was naked till he ate the fruit offered up by Eve. Nonetheless the charge was made to Adam not Eve. The both got punnished. Neither was she to eat the fruit. So often these details are overlooked when unbelievers are preaching "victimhood." Makes me wonder, in todays logical social structure, if so many are looking to get "makeovers" for Eve. On the other hand...I dont see many preachers or men of the cloth mentioning this aspect of what is written. What are these preachers teaching to their flocks??

"Unfair and a I'm a victim" Very standard dogmas today. Combined with I deserve better.

What Christians know is that they dont deserve better. Im not ok , your not either. That pretty much levels the playing field. In our humanity we do tend to love our level playing fields. It is just that if we can often think them through ..they dont make good nonsense...though they originally appear logical and reaonable.

Believers look to the Mercy, Understanding, and Wisdom of God in this for guidance..not to the logic and reason of men. This is sometimes called Grace and Truth.

If I want to learn the dogma of "Unfair or "I'm a victim" I will worship at the other altar of logic and Television. Failing that I will listen to how the political candidates will get us off the "hook" on the other devout religious doctrine so popular today...complete with priesthood. I speak of course of the body politic.
By the way I am so often fond of declaring..these politicians pay for and finance public education. Makes me wonder what religion they are preaching from the classroom and how far their priesthood extends.

Follow the track of what I am saying is logical and reasonable.

Ok..continuing on...

I stated:
Also the serpent was cursed ..on their belly for the seduction/misdirection caused.

Opens the can o' worms whether the Serpent was Satan. If the serpent is punished, must not have been Satan.

This should be self explainatory in view of what I stated above about Adam and Eve.

The serpent counterfitted what God had instructed to Adam.

"For god doth know that in the day thou eatest of the fruit , you shall be as gods knowing good and evil.
Before this the serpent had said.."Ye shall not surely die"

These are counterfit doctrines to the instructions given to Adam and so charged.

One of the names given to Satan/Lucifer is the counterfitter. You should already know this.

Once again..I can tell this footprint or fingerprint in many things around me by remembering what a counterfit or counterfit doctrine is. It simplifys alot of things at election time around here. Also in public education.

Sorry Columbus..but you keep putting up propositions and logic and reason which are not good nonsense to believers who know the fingerprint. The implication that this is not fair and that Eve and the serpent were "victims" does not hold water.

Continuing on...

Watch this substitution or counterfit closely from page 4

The core tenet of Christianity is Salvation and the basis of Salvation (the root) is Original Sin.

Backwards once again Columbus. The basis of Salvation is Blood..not any blood...but His Blood..are we covered in the Blood. Once again knowlegable Christians know this. How did you substitute original sin in the place of His Blood? I can see why you had/have problem with the church you attended. So would I. You might want to see if you are sufficiently salty....or merely sugary...attempting to pass to believers as salt. Obviously intellect here is not salt. But it can be a counterfit.

You do know Columbus of His names among believers is Salvation...among many names. When we speak of the "Prescious Blood" we are speaking of Him...correct??? You also know that He is called " The root of Jesse." This has implications all the way back to Adam. Knowlegable Christians know this too. The root is very telling to those knowlegable and Salty.

I think you need some practice before you take this tack with some Christians out here. I am surprised that to this point many on this board did not catch it. Perhapsed this confirms some of my point about what many preachers are feeding their flocks. In this I think you have valid point as does at times, Madnessinmysoul.

Continuing on.... I have not bothered to watch the Passion of the Christ.

Not intrested.

I am not planning on watching the Golden Compass any time soon. Ive seen this fingerprint many times in movies and video....substitution. The Seventh Sign with Demi Moore was textbook and the first time I caught on to this phenomonon in Hollywood.
Some of this is very subtily done ,some very open. The Seventh Sign is a feel good movie. If you are caught up in the feel good emotions of the movie you will miss it. My take on The Passsion of the Christ is the same thing get overly emotional and miss much in the movie.

Witness or hearsay? Truth is independent of personal experience. It is really the origin of truth that concerns us. With you it is authority, but this is a fallacy.

This is a very strange statement coming from a person of such logic and reason ...such as yourself. History is replete with examples of truth and authoritarianism. Even non Christian history. The entire history of men is replete with feudal authoritarian examples recorded over and over. It is the fruit produced by this authoritarianism which concerns Believers. We are to be " fruit" inspectors. There are lots of authority out here among men..but in inspecting the fruit...the Believer properly trained is able to detect counterfits around them.
You do not seem wont to describe authority in these terms. By this I mean inspecting fruit. Why is that Columbus?? I am curious about this.
It is my opinion that many on this board have forgotten or overlooked the concept of "inspecting fruit" in thier replys.
It is possible to do this and still maintain civility and decorum.

I could describe the feudal system in terms of counterfit and Truth but I will leave it there for now.

on another tack from your last post:

I dont know who posted this line...
"I've studied a little about the trees actually being angels, the tree of knowledge of good and evil being the devil, and the 'eating' being sexual relations."

You replied
[quotet]Yet another example of Christian prejudice against sexuality and knowledge. Two birds with one stone. It must be a very popular bit of sophistry.

The prejudice against sexuality among Christians ..though many no longer know of this history due to public education or lack of that Christians are never to describe themselves in terms of their sexuality. ...ever. They are to describe themselves in terms of the God living in them...24/7.

The prejudice "for " sexuality has origins in pagan customs and traditions. so does the logic and reason of men. They go hand in hand. Historically speaking , whenever men want to describe their greatness, logic, and reason they must return to their sexual can do no better.

Most of the so called great civilizations were openly sexual..particularly around the festival and holy days. This is known history for those who want to investigate this phenomonon. It is just not often a concept wont to be taught in schools next to the significance of it.

Even the wildest and most primitive animals out here have sexuality. This is obvious. For men to describe who and what they are in terms of thier sexuality is declaring that men are mere wild animals. This is panthiesm...nature worship.

Human beings are so much more than mere sexuality. To have sexuality to hold up as a banner of excellence by any human is a declaration of stupidity. This puts the stupid label on many college professors of letters when using this to glorify humanity.

I am not saying that humans dont have sex or sexuality. Not at all. I am saying that humans are so much more than sexuality. Humans do not define themselves by thier sexuality..ever. It is stupid to do so. But it is very popular to day it not?? Watch for this fingerprint in our whorish media who use so many variations of sex and sexuality to sell thier junk to the unawares and uneducated. You will begin to understand why it is necessary to be dumbed down and keep the Bible out of public education. You might be able to catch on to this drug and tell them off...much worse get of this treadmill...cut the cord. They will literally be naked. Every pun intended here.

This view needs to be declared to people/humans who do not know or have never heard this explaination.

Columbus...Your point in your quote is a counterfit of what history records. Also a counterfit to good logic and reason...but it is sophistry that you are wont to imprint on others.

My thanks to all for thier posts,

[edit on 4-1-2008 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 4-1-2008 by orangetom1999]

posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 06:01 AM
My heart did a little dance when I read your OP. There have been so many times that I've read your posts and (sorry to say) just been annoyed. It occured to me once when I put you on iggy (after a particularly convoluted logic rant) that you were just seeking. As you can see, I took you off iggy because I realized that I was pretty darn annoying when I was seeking too. (probably still am. :brkdnc

I believe that Yahweh will make Himself known to you when it's most effective for you. As much as I'd like to plant seeds at my new place right now, I know they wouldn't grow. I have to wait for the appropriate time. I can't say when your "winter" will be over but I have faith that it will. You are young and seeking and have a good mind. When you do finally accept the Savior, you will probably be a great beacon of truth. I say this because you already see through so much of the religious clap-trap that you won't be easily ensnared in dogma or religious tenets. You will start out at a point that many Christians take years to reach (and some never do reach): a point of following the One Who is Life.

Also, I'd like to say something I never thought I'd say to you: Thanks, you just made my day.

posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 01:49 AM

Originally posted by whitewave
You are young and seeking and have a good mind. When you do finally accept the Savior, you will probably be a great beacon of truth. I say this because you already see through so much of the religious clap-trap that you won't be easily ensnared in dogma or religious tenets.

The working of the hardest steel requires special tools and patience...

If you look at this post, I think you can see something at work here...'

Working together on a common good can be the golden glue that heals the world...


[edit on 11-1-2008 by HIFIGUY]

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