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Theists of all sorts, please explain this for me.

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posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by jon1
you never cease to amaze me Columbus.

You don't know me.


A Christian comes on full of compassion for you and all's you can do is talk down to him and say he is blubbering.

As a former Christian, I know that compassion is a hook. By all means, lets all hug and get along. But don't pretend blubbering has answered anything I've put forth because it hasn't.

And the thing you're really not getting is that I'm not asking you these things for myself. I already know them. They can be answered in two ways: admit ignorance, or admit falsehood. Blubbering is just one method of evasion.

You can pretend you are wise. A wise man admits when he doesn't know and admits when he's wrong, well if he's not a coward. So what I see here are a bunch of foolish cowards and that's why you get this treatment from me.

Don't expect change to start with me. If you look at my posts in other threads, I'm as kind and decent as I'm treated. Christians just don't know how loaded with vitriol their rhetoric is. You might feel you're being nice, but we are the downtrodden and you are responsible for it.


you are not a very good ambassador for your cause are you.

I'm not an ambassador. My purpose is exposing and thereby defeating cult mind control as used by the Christian Church.


You never have answers to anything that people put to you.

I answer everything. Just ask WiseSheep. It's only when you guys have nothing left, rather than admit ignorance or wrong, then you start blubbering. I don't have answers for blubbering.


You just take the easy way out by trying a bit of verbal bullying on them.

I know sooner or later, since you can't admit ignorance or wrong you are just going to ignore me, as ignorant and cowardly as that is, I'm just calling it like it is. Don't pretend like you're going to stand up to me. I want to know you've got the brass to admit when you don't know or are wrong.

I like your spirit.


All of your arguments that i have seen are so shallow that iv'e not even got my feet wet yet.

Oh really, so what's your answer to my SIG:

How can God-Jesus truly experience the fear of annihilation in death? And please don't tell me he just can.

How is Adam guilty?

There, now tell me I have no answers.

C




posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by Columbus
 


You have no answers..Columbus


How is Adam guilty?

There, now tell me I have no answers.

C


The charge to dress and keep the garden was made to Adam not Eve. Amazing to me even how many Christians miss this point.

Eve was punnished for misleading Adam to whom she was to be a help meet ..not a help yourself meet. She was to suffer travail as a result.

Also the serpent was cursed ..on their belly for the seduction/misdirection caused.

Since you have missed these concepts I will not bother with the answer to your first question to Jon1 concerning your sig.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
You have no answers..Columbus

Exactly.


She was to suffer travail as a result.

So the grandma, taken-in by the MLM, goes to jail if she convinces grandpa.


Also the serpent was cursed ..on their belly for the seduction/misdirection caused.

Opens the can o' worms whether the Serpent was Satan. If the serpent is punished, must not have been Satan.


Since you have missed these concepts I will not bother with the answer to your first question to Jon1 concerning your sig.

These are the questions in my SIG. Sorry, you failed to answer both.

How is Adam guilty?

How can God die?

I'll give you a hint. There aren't really answers to these questions. Think about them for a while. Don't rush to answer me. You'll see what I mean. I don't want you to do what WiseSheep does.

C



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 08:05 AM
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Oh really, so what's your answer to my SIG:

How can God-Jesus truly experience the fear of annihilation in death? And please don't tell me he just can.

How is Adam guilty?

There, now tell me I have no answers.


Part 2 and 3 of your signature:

2. By definition, an Immortal entity cannot die, sorry God-Jesus.
3. In a case of Fraud, the guilty party is The Serpent, not Eve, sorry Salvation.

I have a question Re: 2

I read your standpoint regarding 'God' as being non-existant, then why the 'apologies' (at the end of that sentence) towards God-Jesus - towards an entity or something that doesn't exist? It's not logical. If it meant as 'sacrasm', why waste your breath with negativeness to get your point across? Would this be indigative of all your future postings? Sarcasm? Why waste your time with words such as these, when you can put your communication skills to good use otherwise.

My opinion Re: 3

We are human beings on this planet before anything else. Whether one feels a need to attach themselves to a higher power or not, is not the issue regarding question 3. It is up to us to 'choose' our paths. We've had the ability to 'choose' from day 1. Therefore, we must also take responsibility for the actions that we chose. We can't go through life pointing the finger of blame at every turn. If any opportunity arises, whereby we must eat that 'proverbial apple' from time to time, then consequences will follow. Whether we foresee it or not.

This is the beauty of CHOICE.

I could be brazen and 'challenge' you with regards to your 1st sentence in signature:

"I'm not mean, I'm firm. It's a leadership quality."

But I won't.

And I'll have you know, it's not because I'm afraid...To the contrary...it would be a waste of my time on this thread to continually butt heads with extravagent emotional outbursts, that do not lend support to denying ingnorance in a positive and construction manner. Period.

Here's my favorite broken record saying again:

""It's not neccessarily WHAT we say to people...but HOW we say these things."

You want to be firm? I don't have a problem with that. However, I would hate to see an important issue, not be recognized, if people in general take on a 'dictatorial' approach, and go into a debate session with a 'jackhammer' in one hand; expecting to force-feed one's opinions.

I want you and everyone on this thread to know, that I am in NO way attacking you personally. For the record. I'm taking aside some issues, that need to be clarified, in order for all of us to experience a 1/2 ways decent discussion together. Key word here is 'together'.

I would like to see Madness' thread go back on track with a bit more civility to each other.

Civility and Decorum are Required

Respectfully,

~Ducky~



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by Columbus
 





As a former Christian, I know that compassion is a hook. By all means, lets all hug and get along. But don't pretend blubbering has answered anything I've put forth because it hasn't.



What do you mean that compassion is a hook?
Compassion is what we should all have for each other and as a former Christian (so you say) you should know better. in fact i will go as far as to say that you thought you were a Christian. Because if you truly were you would have met Christ and therefor you cannot now deny him.


As for your second sentence. This word blubbering that you keep coming out with. It seems to cover any answer that you are given, Instead of answering any questions or accepting any other opinion than your own, the word blubbering seems to come out.




Don't expect change to start with me. If you look at my posts in other threads, I'm as kind and decent as I'm treated.



Check back to the post by ReginaAdonnaAaron on page three, then think of the above statement. doesn't quite ring true does it?





I know sooner or later, since you can't admit ignorance or wrong you are just going to ignore me, as ignorant and cowardly as that is, I'm just calling it like it is. Don't pretend like you're going to stand up to me. I want to know you've got the brass to admit when you don't know or are wrong.



OK, here goes.

How can God-Jesus truly experience the fear of annihilation in death.
I don't know.

Why does God heal some people and not others?
I don't know.

Why am i having mini strokes,
I don't know.

why do i have cancer?
I don't know.

will the tests for C.O.P.D that i had this morning be positive even though people are praying for me?
I don't know.

And last but not least, why does God use me to heal people but not heal me? I'm falling to bits.
I don't know.

When i get to heaven first stop is the information desk for some answers because i have far more questions than answers, believe me.
If i am wrong on something that i have said, i will admit it. no problem.

As for ignoring you or not standing up to you. YOU WISH.
But i will admit that after a while i will take a break as we will never see eye to eye and we just have to accept that.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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Although He may consider it just "blubbering", I still pray for Columbus and people like him. It's not a "hook", just compassion - for some reason my heart goes out to these people. I should probably be hurt or angry or offended but I'm not. I can't explain why, it's just how I feel.

Maybe I can help some people understand one thing though. The "God-Jesus" and "how can God die" thing that Columbus has referred to. That is a very valid question. I had the same question too. That's why I left the Catholic church at the age of 18, because no explination I was given made any sense. I did not recognize it as truth. It did not make sense to me when I compared it to the Scriptures that tell of Jesus praying to the Father (why would he pray to Himself?) and talking about how He was doing His Father's work and calling out to His Father on the cross, just to name a few. And it's not just me, it confuses sooooo many people! So, I can understand where the confusion and disbelief stems from also. That's why I said before that the Shepherds aren't doing their jobs - because I had the very same experience. They're presenting things like the falsehood of the trinity as mysteries to people and just expecting them to understand, believe and accept it as truth. The trinity is a tactic of Satan in the Spiritual War to rob Christ of His glory and further confuse and mislead more of mankind from the truth.

First off, Jesus is not the Almighty God. He is not the Almighty God manifested as a man. There is only one Almighty God and that is Yahweh, the Creator. Because the Almighty God, Yahweh, is the energy source (or life force) of all Creation, if He were to die so would we. But, Jesus is a God in His own right because He was the Yahweh's first and only direct creation. He is often referred to as the Mighty God. (Note the difference: Almighty vs. Mighty) It was through The Word that everything else in Creation was formed. The Word was who agreed to lower Himself for a time, become a mere man and a servant to mankind, show us The Way, and then die and ascend back to Heaven and to His Father. Therefore, Columbus is absolutely right. The Almighty God cannot die. He did not manifest Himself as man to die for our sins. It was actually His SON, The Word, who became Jesus Christ who did these things.

That is the short version - I have many, many scriptural references to back this up as well. Why the Trinity has become so well known and accepted I cannot say - but it has been for a very, very long time.

Those who have hearts that are open to wisdom and knowledge will explore and ponder what I've said on their own. I will not debate it because I know it is truth. If you're interested in learning more, visit my Blog in the website in my signature. You will find the answers and scriptural references all there.

It's my sincerest prayer that more people will come to an understanding that it's not Religion itself, what Religion you are or follow, or the Religious beliefs like the Trinity that will save people. It's the condition of the heart and a belief in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior that gives an opportunity of Eternal Life. That's it. The choice is yours to make.

May Father bless and guide every one of you. Amen.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster
I read your standpoint regarding 'God' as being non-existant, then why the 'apologies' (at the end of that sentence) towards God-Jesus - towards an entity or something that doesn't exist? It's not logical. If it meant as 'sacrasm', why waste your breath with negativeness to get your point across? Would this be indigative of all your future postings? Sarcasm? Why waste your time with words such as these, when you can put your communication skills to good use otherwise.

This is a clinical process. It's designed for "born again" Christians only. The core tenet of Christianity is Salvation and the basis of Salvation (the root) is Original Sin. The question of the existence of God is relevant but not practical in this process (one step at a time), so for the sake of argument, assuming God did exist, could He make any form of genuine Sacrifice?

There are two sorts of immortality here. God of course would be totally immortal in principle, but Adam and Eve theoretically could have lived "forever" in Eden were it not for Original Sin, yet this "forever" is not the same immortality that God has, as it could be taken away.

God would be genuinely immortal and can't possibly experience annihilation. There is no threat, nothing to fear, no risk, no gamble, nothing at stake. Salvation was bought with literally nothing.

Now, understanding all this, what makes Christians think they're getting the real deal? The logical outcome is a return to Eden, a dependence on "oranges" and the persistent threat of all this happening all over again. Christians would be forced to agree that glorification will not make them like God and that is what this implies.

It is also implied by the very closing of Revelation and the Bible, wherein Satan will be loosed again. What do you think that means?


Therefore, we must also take responsibility for the actions that we chose. We can't go through life pointing the finger of blame at every turn. If any opportunity arises, whereby we must eat that 'proverbial apple' from time to time, then consequences will follow. Whether we foresee it or not.

This is actually a very complex problem. I made an extensive post about it here:
Applegate - Striking the Root
I was planning to do the same for Salvation, but ran out of time.


"I'm not mean, I'm firm. It's a leadership quality."

Actually, I just added that. It's good Christian leadership training. You'd be surprised what "criticisms" Christians will take from their own leaders in the name of Love, but won't take half that from me because I'm not one of them, "unSaved," blind, rebellious, etc.

The forum rules and moderators aren't eyes-open for Dog-Whistle Christian insults, and while certain Christians around here claim a superior attitude to me, I know their language and how they cloak their insults.


...positive and construction manner.

Frankly, what I'm doing is controversial, but it's better than what happened to me. There is NO way to prevent it from being ugly, messy, and painful. I don't want to start out with an illusion that it's going to be neat and stay that way.

I tell Christians that I was like them, but it is necessary for them, in continuing to maintain their faith that I am wrong, even though I am speaking of myself. I am continuously accused of being a liar.

For an ex-Christian such as myself there is a distinct difference between us and other atheists. For one thing, I am definitely more emotionally involved than they are. In that, all New Atheists like madnessinmysoul are actually playing with fire and taking a serious risk of ending up in a cult they may never be able to escape from.


I would like to see Madness' thread go back on track with a bit more civility to each other.

I'm afraid you are clocking civility by my behavior alone because you do not understand Christian Dogwhistle language insults that I am absorbing. Unfortunately I can't call the mods and say a Christian said I was blind, but it means a hefty lot to Christians when spoken by pastors, and you don't realize that.

I'd advise caution to madness, lest he should be exposed to forces he is totally unprepared for.

C



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by jon1
What do you mean that compassion is a hook?
Compassion is what we should all have for each other and as a former Christian (so you say) you should know better. in fact i will go as far as to say that you thought you were a Christian. Because if you truly were you would have met Christ and therefor you cannot now deny him.

I am the only one here asked to be kind, yet this is just another example of a Christian hurling a half dozen insults to me at once and simultaneously denying me the very option of defending myself in honesty because anything I say that doesn't conform with doctrine is a lie.

How can I answer you? All I can say is what I know to be true and you claim to know to be a lie.

Compassion is otherwise known as Love Bombing. The word Love as used within the Church doesn't mean the same as it does for unchurched people. This is deception. The word love is destroyed in a process known as logocide and replaced with a different word translated as "agape" and no one unchurched knows what it means. This is part of the language sometimes called "Dogwhistle," because the unchurched can't hear it, can't recognize the intended meaning.

If two Christians know Christ, how is it that Christ doesn't act as a go-between. Because he's imaginary, formed out of the bicameral mind. That is why the Catholic League warned everyone not to see The Golden Compass. Not because it contained demons, but because the demons are formed out of the bicameral mind and represent each person's Jesus.


This word blubbering that you keep coming out with.

Blubbering refers to the smarmy, nauseating discussions between Christians, the patting on the back, the congratulations, the nurse attending on account of failure and defeat. Blubbering is usually not directed towards me, but when it is, it does not constitute questions. Blubbering is not answerable. If someone tells me they're praying for me, that's blubbering, and all I can say to that would be inappropriate in your eyes, so I warn you that you shouldn't expect better.


Check back to the post by ReginaAdonnaAaron on page three, then think of the above statement. doesn't quite ring true does it?

Up until this moment, Regina has said nothing that I have felt a need to or responded to. I will respond to her separately, but I must be careful not to engage too many people at one time. Remember, I am outnumbered here.


I don't know.

It's a good start. It sounds disingenuous though. Actually it sounds dismissive, since the real point is to evaluate your beliefs, not label them and put them away.


When i get to heaven first stop is the information desk for some answers because i have far more questions than answers, believe me.
If i am wrong on something that i have said, i will admit it. no problem.

It's good to hear.


As for ignoring you or not standing up to you. YOU WISH.

You didn't know me and I didn't know you. Now that's changed.


...we will never see eye to eye and we just have to accept that.

I entirely don't agree with the apathetic quitting attitude you're displaying.

C



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron
..."blubbering", I still pray for Columbus...

You get a star.


It's not a "hook", just compassion - for some reason my heart goes out to these people.

Sure, there's a difference and I can recognize that. The truth is, I am not presently hurt. I got over the trauma of leaving the church long ago, though I will always bear the scars. My concern is that you are feeling empathy for the wrong reasons, reasons that I or other atheists would not be receptive to. I do not call this blubbering arbitrarily. There is something inappropriate and unwelcome about it.


I should probably be hurt or angry or offended but I'm not. I can't explain why, it's just how I feel.

I'm pleased to hear it. I hope you will continue to delve deeper into your feelings. Know thyself.


The "God-Jesus" and "how can God die" thing that Columbus has referred to. That is a very valid question. I had the same question too. That's why I left the Catholic church at the age of 18, because no explination I was given made any sense. I did not recognize it as truth.

Unfortunately I can only give one star to one post. But consider this a virtual second star.


It did not make sense to me when I compared it to the Scriptures that tell of Jesus praying to the Father (why would he pray to Himself?) and talking about how He was doing His Father's work and calling out to His Father on the cross, just to name a few.

This is the problem of the Trinity. Yes, I know it well. Unfortunately for me, although I initially didn't understand it, even questioned it, while in the church I learned the brainwashing techniques that fit round pegs in square holes of the mind. I now know how every believer in the Trinity accepts it, even though it is ridiculous. A "good" Shepherd knows these insidious techniques and teaches them to his flock.


The trinity is a tactic of Satan in the Spiritual War to rob Christ of His glory and further confuse and mislead more of mankind from the truth. ...

This is what I would call a sore thumb. I'm not going to touch this.


...The Way...

You believe in Christ in a very different way than most other Christians, similar to Ben. You have a relatively secular view of Jesus, to a degree I wouldn't even call you a Christian.


It's the condition of the heart and a belief in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior that gives an opportunity of Eternal Life. That's it. The choice is yours to make.

I don't really have anything for you since my process isn't designed for you, but I would ask why you feel that it is necessary for us to do anything to receive Jesus' gift? Is a gift not a gift?

C



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 06:07 PM
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This is a clinical process. It's designed for "born again" Christians only. The core tenet of Christianity is Salvation and the basis of Salvation (the root) is Original Sin. The question of the existence of God is relevant but not practical in this process (one step at a time), so for the sake of argument, assuming God did exist, could He make any form of genuine Sacrifice?


Jesus died in the flesh(in a very grisly fashion).
Being part of the Trinity.
He did not go to hell for eternity so that we would not.


There are two sorts of immortality here. God of course would be totally immortal in principle, but Adam and Eve theoretically could have lived "forever" in Eden were it not for Original Sin, yet this "forever" is not the same immortality that God has, as it could be taken away.


Why were Adam and Eve driven out of the garden by angels wielding flaming swords?
It was because if they had eaten of the tree of life, they WOULD have lived FOREVER!
They picked the exactly WRONG tree!


God would be genuinely immortal and can't possibly experience annihilation. There is no threat, nothing to fear, no risk, no gamble, nothing at stake. Salvation was bought with literally nothing.


A sinless God dying under the penalty of EVERY sin.
With his beard ripped out and the scourging of cat'o'nine tails.
With his nerves burning in agony on the stake!
Jeshua's precious BLOOD was paid!


Now, understanding all this, what makes Christians think they're getting the real deal? The logical outcome is a return to Eden, a dependence on "oranges" and the persistent threat of all this happening all over again. Christians would be forced to agree that glorification will not make them like God and that is what this implies.


Dependence on 'oranges'?
We will eat of the tree of life.
Forever with God.



I tell Christians that I was like them, but it is necessary for them, in continuing to maintain their faith that I am wrong, even though I am speaking of myself. I am continuously accused of being a liar.


I think you were involved in a 'charismatic', 'neo-pentacostal' church or something.
Sucked into emotional worship without deep roots.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Perhaps nothing is what you are supposed to get.
This could be the emptiness that Buddha talks about.
What is behind concepts but emptiness?-nothing-concepts are emptiness.
Nothing is a start-since concepts are infinite- it's best to go back to square one-nothing.
Try to understand the open space and freedom from concepts.
That's why one should never get upset over concepts-they are really nothing.
If you can understand this you can start to understand your own mind.
What is more important than that?
You wake up-no matter where-there's your mind-your awareness or lack of it.
That's the main thing in anyone's life.
Concepts about God are not as important as understanding the luminous, empty (open qualities)
of your own mind-once you understand that then you are on the road to mastering your own consciousness.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
...Sucked into emotional worship without deep roots.


That's the problem with so many Churches (of all Christian denominations) today. They aren't providing their congregations with NOURISHMENT. Nourishment is what keeps us alive. Not alive physically, but spiritually. It's what provides us with the opportunity for Eternal Life.

It says in the Scriptures, “Wisdom is supreme—so get wisdom. And whatever else you get, get understanding.” Proverbs 4:7

Understanding is what so many lack and what causes so many to fall away. If you don't understand the basic principles you never get past the most elementary teachings and if you can't get past those, you never gain true understanding. And, without wisdom you gain nothing. And, I won't even go into the importance of wisdom and how it begins with fear of the Lord...

It is the responsibility of the Shepherds (clergy members) of the world to provide their flocks with proper nourishment so that they may obtain wisdom and understanding and an opportunity at eternal life.

If you were to eat food that provided none of the nourishment your physical body needed you would eventually die. I see the same thing happening spiritually all around me.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
Jesus died in the flesh(in a very grisly fashion).

The passion play is nothing but a classic mind control technique. The grisliness of it is crucial to the buy-in. If Jesus had been shot in the temple with a 9mm, you wouldn't feel for him or buy into the whole emotional investment of this worthless pyramid scheme.


Being part of the Trinity.

Meaning what?


He did not go to hell for eternity so that we would not.

God didn't make a Sacrifice so we would not. Nonsense.


Why were Adam and Eve driven out of the garden by angels wielding flaming swords?
It was because if they had eaten of the tree of life, they WOULD have lived FOREVER!

Yes, but isn't God's form of immortality independent of the orange, unlike Adam and Eve? Because Adam and Eve COULD die, their immortality was NOT genuine.


A sinless God dying under the penalty of EVERY sin.

As in my discussions with other Christians, this requires us to explore the confused meaning of the word death. But simply put, you are referring to Jesus' physical death, which was taken back in the resurrection.

Maybe a football analogy will help. Breaking the rules (sin) results in yards lost (penalties, death). One team is man, the other God. God by definition can't break the rules (sin) or lose (die), so the game is unfair (rigged), but He chooses to accept one big penalty for "all" (not really all) man's penalties. But guess what, God gets all the yards He lost to His One Penalty given back to Him. That's what the Resurrection is to football. Plus, man still loses (death still exists, man still dies, some men still go to Hell) so not all men (really none) are actually covered by His One Penalty.


With his beard ripped out and the scourging of cat'o'nine tails.

And how meaningless if it were a 9mm to the temple instead.


Jeshua's precious BLOOD was paid!

There is something really sick about a God that thirsts for blood. Vampire?


Dependence on 'oranges'?
We will eat of the tree of life.

apple=fruit of the tree of knowledge
orange=fruit of the tree of life
Everyone knows about the apple. No one knows about the orange. That's gotta change. So, you'll be dependent on oranges and if for whatever reason you don't get them, you'll face death again. You're not really immortal like God who needs no oranges.


I think you were involved in a 'charismatic', 'neo-pentacostal' church or something.

Nope. Good try. My church considered those churches to be cults.


Sucked into emotional worship without deep roots.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what's happened to himself.

C



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Columbus



Jeshua's precious BLOOD was paid!

There is something really sick about a God that thirsts for blood. Vampire?



Technically, I think Jesus was a zombie. I think the followers are divine cannibals.

Either way, the whole thing, pain worship, blood and flesh eating (that's what the transubstantiation is, after all -- eat the god all up, he's yummy), being brainwashed into thinking that some fictional person 2000 years ago could die for sins not yet even committed by people who won't be born for centuries is just about the creepiest thing I've ever heard.

It's the biggest guilt trip on the planet. The cult of guilt and cannibalism.

I really pity the people on the inside that can't see what a horrible trap they're in. I'm so glad that even as a child of nine I could see through it to the core of lies and hypocrisy and escaped being enslaved by this cognitive dissonance for life.

The world would be such a better place if people lived it for themselves and for being good people, and not because the zombie god wants to hold them responsible for his being nailed to a hypothetical stick long before they were born.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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The passion play is nothing but a classic mind control technique. The grisliness of it is crucial to the buy-in. If Jesus had been shot in the temple with a 9mm, you wouldn't feel for him or buy into the whole emotional investment of this worthless pyramid scheme.


First off, I'm a woman.
Why do some people think I'm a man???

I got saved BEFORE the 'Passion of The Christ'. I never saw a passion play (EVER)
I didn't feel sorry for him.
I didn't really believe in him.


Meaning what?


God died for us.


God didn't make a Sacrifice so we would not. Nonsense.


God didn't go to hell and be damned forever.
That would be the only sacrifice you would be satisfied with?
If God took one MINUTE off his job, we would be toast.


Yes, but isn't God's form of immortality independent of the orange, unlike Adam and Eve? Because Adam and Eve COULD die, their immortality was NOT genuine.


You're missing my point. If Adam and Eve had of eaten from the tree of life, there would be no dying for us, just immortality!


Maybe a football analogy will help. Breaking the rules (sin) results in yards lost (penalties, death). One team is man, the other God. God by definition can't break the rules (sin) or lose (die), so the game is unfair (rigged), but He chooses to accept one big penalty for "all" (not really all) man's penalties. But guess what, God gets all the yards He lost to His One Penalty given back to Him. That's what the Resurrection is to football. Plus, man still loses (death still exists, man still dies, some men still go to Hell) so not all men (really none) are actually covered by His One Penalty.


This is no LEVEL playing field.
God is God. We're not.


There is something really sick about a God that thirsts for blood. Vampire?


God doesn't drink the blood. It covers the mercy seat so that the 'Law'
has a covering, a buffer for US humans.

The life is IN the blood. Of all creatures.
It used to be that the high priest of Israel had to take th blood of bulls and rams and fowl and put it on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant.
So that God would look over our their sins.
Jesus took his OWN blood up to God as a High Priest, once and for all!



apple=fruit of the tree of knowledge
orange=fruit of the tree of life
Everyone knows about the apple. No one knows about the orange. That's gotta change. So, you'll be dependent on oranges and if for whatever reason you don't get them, you'll face death again. You're not really immortal like God who needs no oranges.


It probably was a fig (IF ANY KIND OF FRUIT!)

I've studied a little about the trees actually being angels, the tree of knowledge of good and evil being the devil, and the 'eating' being sexual relations.


Nope. Good try. My church considered those churches to be cults.

May I ask what kind of church, then?


Spoken like someone who doesn't know what's happened to himself.


I'm a woman and we don't have more 'praise and worship' than we do preaching at our church.


To MM,

Most of us here don't practice transubstantiation,
We don't 'Eat' Jesus.
We symbolically eat unleavened bread and drink grape juice, to remember him ( Much Like Passover)



posted on Dec, 31 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Columbus
Don't pretend like you're going to stand up to me. I want to know you've got the brass to admit when you don't know or are wrong.

Your truth is your own, and you do not speak for me or any other persons personal witness.

What you have done, is made an assumption, without any substantiating evidence other then what you think in terms of our experience.

Perhaps you can show a little courtesy, people might actually regard you with some respect, and that my friend, would be a teaching of Christ 101 for you.

Kindness. Like the smallest drops of water coupled with the practice of a Godly life, wears away the hardest of hearts, and erodes away the hardest of stone.

Sometimes when a person slings mud, the mud they sling dirties themselves. The only people this mud is visible to, are the eyes of others.

The words of Love are the words of the Truth. The spring of Life.
The spring of water that come forth from the Truth is the Universal sav that cleans every wound and promotes healing.

And that Brother is the Truth.



[edit on 31-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


What you are describing in your original post, stop it.
That is no way to find God. It is a good way to find a demon.
My advice would be to find a nice Catholic church. Go there when they are not actualy holding a service and there are only a few people inside. Go to the fifth row of pews and move to the very center. They usualy have a knee pad that you can flip down from the pew in front of you. Kneel down and fold your hands together in front of you. Stare at the crucifix in the front and think about how much God loves you.

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


yeah, i'm a catholic apostate... and i think the catholic church is one of the last places i'd look for religion.

honestly, i spent a whole year doing exactly what you just asked me to do. i went to the chapel at my jesuit-run catholic school, sat in the middle of the church, stared at a crucifix and thought about how much god loves me and how horrible my doubts of religion were
on weekends i'd walk up to my chuch when nobody was there and do the same thing.
nothing happened there.

honestly, i just realized that i keep grasping at these religious straws because it's a psychological issue. i keep feeling the abuse that was drilled into my head by the clergy that an unbeliever is a bad thing to be. i guess i just have to rid myself of the shackles of my psychological conditioning and embrace who i am

my name is madness (well, actually it's Luca) and i'm an unbeliever. i also happen to be quite spiritual, somehow.



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 08:54 AM
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MIMS, there is absolutely no need for you to apologize for not being enslaved by the delusion any longer. It's a trap we all (non believers) fall into -- the opposite of xian apologetics.

We have nothing to apologize for, we have nothing we need to justify. We've broken the chains of superstition that have held our species captive for at least 20,000 years, and it's something to be proud of.



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
We have nothing to apologize for, we have nothing we need to justify. We've broken the chains of superstition that have held our species captive for at least 20,000 years, and it's something to be proud of.


Your experience speaks soley for you. I rarely hear you speak about the greater good for mankind Majormalfunction.

It is important for Christians and Atheists alike to realize that we are not enemies.

That neither side has the right to censor the other, and that each man, in his own heart has the opportunity to seek life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. That being said, we also have the right to practive our faith, whether it be Atheism, Christianity, or Slammism.

Just make sure you know where the line is for oppression.

In another thread, I was pleasantly suprised to see Madnessinmysoul make a post in regards to a greater good for mankind. Below is a link to the thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

While you make no claim to Christianity, your heart is in the right spot...

Happy New Year


[edit on 1-1-2008 by HIFIGUY]



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