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Theists of all sorts, please explain this for me.

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posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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The other night I was lying in bed in thought for about 2 hours as I normally do due to insomnia and fairly irregular sleep patterns and thought to myself "What if there really is some sort of god/deity/spiritual thing that I need to open my "heart" to in a moment like this to truly understand faith and become religious?" so, in all sincerity, I opened my "heart" to any and all spiritual presence with a little prayer thing...

I got nothing.
Then I thought, "Maybe I should be more specific" so I opened myself up to Christ with that same sincerity... and again, nothing.
Then I did the same for every religion I could think of... each time, nothing nothing nothing.
I looped back around to Jesus and attempted again with an addition of "and sorry if I offended you with opening myself up to other possibilities" but received nothing again

I was very sincere, very honest, and ready to believe and have faith, but got nothing.

How would you theists describe this lack of response?




posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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As a teenager, I did the same as
you.

A lot.

But...


Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe


I found Deism

It's like being Catholic, but with much
less guilt.
(sorry, my Catholic wife is watching as
I type this. And I just got smacked...)

Seriously, I've been Deist for years.

Regards,
Lex



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Maybe your arguing against him for sooooo long has made God not as attentive to you.
I did something similar years before I was an actual christian.
I was going through MANY problems which I didn't want to share with anyone, but my sister knew I was really depressed, the psychiatrists kind of tipped her off.
She told me she had received the 'gift' of grace (or something) and she said she felt a wave of something go over her.
I asked God to 'show' me he was real. I felt heat go through my body like electricity. That made me think I was 'saved'.

I didn't change my ways and things grew MUCH worse!

(UNTIL I became a christian at 23.)



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 06:30 PM
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When I read your post, I envisioned you opening the door of your heart, peeking out and then slamming it shut again when you saw no one was there when you expected them to be.

Are you saying that you won't believe unless you immediately receive some proof? Were you thinking in your mind or your heart, "Alright, I'll open my heart to you but in return I expect some undeniable proof that you exist?" If you approach opening your heart to Christ as you would a science experiment I honestly can't imagine you getting much of a response right then and there. You say you were honest and ready to believe and have faith but got nothing. What were you opening for?

Our heavenly Father does things on His own time, not yours. What is it that you fear? What do you have to lose by opening your heart fully to Him...and then waiting...?

I encourage you to give it a try more fully next time. While I cannot judge, I can imagine that Father would know whether or not you were truly being sincere as He knows all our thoughts and inner desires (or lack of) that reside within our hearts.

Experiment with having Faith, my friend...and then have the courage and peace of mind to accept what you receive in return - especially if it's not what you expected.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:09 PM
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Regina said it all.

Madness, I do the same thing, sit in thought. Im glad you actually think. Some people are too shallow to even have a deep thought period.

The above poster said it all. give it some time. Trust me you will see God work in your life in many ways. he has the perfect timing Madness, and I know its hard to believe for you but just give him time and faith, even an inkling.

Trust me, the saints saw him, and their angels, Padre had to go through beatings with satan almost daily, Pio that is. I have seen so many things, intimate, alone, miracles, and you could too if you just keep your heart open instead of expecting a suuden rush of emotion.

opening the heart doesnt mean (for a breif couple minutes), it means having faith from the miracles youve heard and the things God made evident by creation, and keeping it open forever, and then you will see him work.

So this is good, I hope your sincere. Just give these things I and others posted a chance, alittle chance, and dont throw it off as completely false like other atheist do without knowing.

peace.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:31 PM
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Madness - you are basically saying, 'okay you got 2 hours to proove me wrong' and it just don't work that way.

If you are sincere, stay open to it. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 42 and though I've had extraordinary things happen all throughout my life, absolute truth didn't start to make itself known to me, til about the age of 40.

That's a really long time to find the truth and longevity does not run on my fathers side of the family, so I'm probably outta here in ten to fifteen years tops.

At this point just stay open to the possibility. Keep an open mind. What can a closed mind ever accomplish? Think about that. Like a good little ant, keep your antenna's up and be receptive. Try and reduce anything negative in your life..... and keep meditating. You have your whole life before you and plenty of time to get there. Studying his words wouldn't hurt either but you need baby steps.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:44 PM
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Madness...

I told you before...and I'll say it again:

"I love how your mind works!'...this is yet.. another step, that we can both agree upon; using our noggin to figure things out.

You MUST agree with me when I say this:

* The earth/solar system/universe, did NOT come about from nothing. Logically - 'something' does NOT come about from 'nothing'. Logically.

* Their is a POSSIBLILITY that the earth was 'seeded' a long time ago from 'others'.

* The OTHERS could have 'set-down' laws unto mankind, from the beginning; might have been misconstrued from the beginning.

* ALL religions are man-made

* 'FEELINGS/SENTIMENTS/FAITH from man-kind 'CANNOT' be swayed, unless there is a more 'better construct of ideations to replace'.

* SCIENCE can't explain everything....yet. Until then, we ALL must bridge the gap of intollerance and prejedice. It is the 'duty' of ALL MANKIND, to go about our business - relaying to the best of our abilities - what is truth. Should others NOT agree with our opinions, then "who are we' - mere corporial beings - to suppose the 'ever-changing' truth, that is not quite 'absolute'?

**********

This is a good thing that you did Madness...to sit back, ask questions, and WONDER.

It shows that your mind is still working, and perhaps YOU are looking at things differently.

Nothing wrong, and NO shame with that.

We are all on our OWN personal quests. tis life.

Don't ever be afraid to 'reach', don't ever be afraid to put yourself in a position that is beyond your own 'comfort zone'. This is how we learn. This is how we are: "Inside."

Pride? pashawwwwwwwww.

Take it ALL in. Ask. Listen. Learn. Love. Laugh....Decide.

What do YOU think Madness?

I look forward to your thoughts.

Respectfully,

~Ducky~



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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Stay tuned...
I did the same thing once, because a beautiful old woman asked me to.
And there was nothing, immediately.
Three days later she came to me with a response she recieved and had no idea what it meant, but she told me anyway, she said, "He says" "tell Dan he did not call on me, I called on him". Those were my exact words, " ok God, Father, spiritual being Elaine talks to in my chair, If your real I'm calling on you. and there was nothing as well and I felt foolish even asking, until she shared with me what she said she heard. Even after that, I just filed it under the X files and walked on for years athei/agnosto/whatever. It takes time, and it is only fair, had God just opened my head in one fell swoop, I might have lost my marbles permanently. When one is inverted (for lack of a better term) everything changes. Those around you who knew you before think you've lost your mind, because you used to be so adamant about God's non-existance, but now you say He is real, "he must have lost his mind". When He calls you out, you will know without doubt that He is real, and you will want everyone you know to know it as well, but be prepared, the reality that is God is all in all. You cannot con Him, He knows your heart, mind, and soul. I hope for your sake He doesn't reveal Himself to you in public, others may not understand why you are on your knees in tears saying He's here now, it is an overwelming experience you must be prepared for, especially if your disbelief is as you have claimed here for so long.
Keep your eyes wide open, along with your ears, if He is calling you you will eventually hear, one way or another, you are not the first, but you may be one of the last, who will be first.
If you are just playing here, may He also help you. And all God's children say "LORD help madness out". With all sincerity I ask all who have the faith here to join me in asking God to awaken madness to Himself.
Merry Christmas, God Bless us all, everyone.....



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster
It shows that your mind is still working, and perhaps YOU are looking at things differently.


After making my post I had another thought and it ties in a little with what Ducky said above.

Perhaps... just perhaps... God IS speaking to you. And you responded. In other words, perhaps His speaking to you was what got you to try in the first place.

Just food for further thought.




P.S. Annnnd it looks like Holiday and I are on the same wavelength here.


[edit on 22-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 


Thankyou!

~Ducky



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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This song came to mind, and seemed appropriate to the subject of this post...

God Speaking
by Ronnie Freeman

Have you ever heard a love song,
That set your spirit free?
Have you ever watched a sunrise,
And felt you could not breathe?
What if it's Him? What if it's God speaking?

Have you ever cried a tear that
You could not explain?
Have you ever met a stranger
Who already knew your name?
What if it's Him? What if it's God speaking?

Who knows how He'll get ahold of us?
Get our attention to prove He is enough.
He'll do, and He'll use whatever He wants to.
To tell us, I Love You.

Have you ever lost a loved one
Who you thought should still be here?
Do you know what it feels like
to be tangled up in fear?
What if He's somehow involved?
What if He's speaking through it all?

Who knows how He'll get ahold of us?
Get our attention to prove he is enough.
He'll do and He'll use whatever He wants to
To tell us, I love you.

His ways are higher yeah
His ways are better
And though sometimes strange
What could be stranger than God in a manger?

ooh yeah yeah yeahhh
Who knows how He'll get ahold of us?
Get our attention to prove He is enough.
Who knows how He'll get ahold of you?
Get your attention to prove he is enough.
He'll do and He'll use whatever He wants to,
To tell us I love you
God is speaking, I love you
ohhh yeahh



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Your post gives me a lot to say, but not all of it is prudent to mention right now. I will say, like the others, that unwaivering faith does not just happen overnight. I have spent practically my whole life learning to have faith, so I would not expect that anyone would would be convicted in any major way in a couple hours. I suppose it is possible but rare.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with you being an atheist but if you wish to dive into spiritual matters, reason can help you understand things much more clearly than a lot of dogmatic beliefs you have often scorned. The bottom line is faith though, which is a gift. The only advice I can give you is to keep an open mind and keep searching. If you find one spiritual truth, hold on to it until you find more and eventually it all does make sense.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


I was very sincere, very honest, and ready to believe and have faith, but got nothing.

How would you theists describe this lack of response?


emphasis mine

I will echo other Christians replies to you madness,only to add the bolding in the quote is what I saw first to be the problem.

If your being called and I have often thought you are being called though your running as quick as you can in another direction from Him,hopefully you will know eventually,you wont have to be "ready to believe" you will already,then your heart will open fully to God and He will not disappoint you.

You`ll know madness if and when the time is now for you,rather than attempts to get God to show,though as the word says the time is now.

Usually people are saved because of crisis because who they are and what they are is easy to abandon rather than those who love who they are or their life,though its not always that way,one just needs to believe God is greater than ones self.

By the way, happy birthday.

A little story I once heard........

A man was out bush walking in the mountains and fell down a huge cliff,he reached out and grabbed hold of a branch sticking out of the rock face.
With no hope of getting back up and had little time,he thought he`d better ask and see if there is a God after all.

He called out,hey anyone up there?

God- "yes I`m here"
Man- "can you help me?"
God-"do you believe in me?"
Man- "ahh? yep"
God-"then let go"
Man-"let go?.......is there anybody else up there! ?"



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 


you just stereotyped me there... and i don't see why that received so many stars (oh wait, yes i do, there's been a mass of those stereotypes and people like to see their own biases come out of the mouths of others)

anyway, i didn't, i left my heart open for quite a while, not even considering the situation scientifically and from an entirely faith-based perspective....

wish i had more time to respond, but i need to get ready for some birthday celebration stuff.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Lexion
Deism

It's like being Catholic, but with much
less guilt.
(sorry, my Catholic wife is watching as
I type this. And I just got smacked...)


Was your wife implementing the guilt this time?


madnessinmysoul
You're obviously being spoken to by God, else you wouldn't even care. One thing that should keep Christians in their place, and keep them humble, is the fact that none of us chose Christ, but we were chosen by Christ.



But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.


Having faith means you believe in something without any validation. If God were to show himself to you, would you have any need of faith? I doubt that. Plus God doesn't want to impose on your will with thunder and lightning. It's a quiet, barely heard whisper. Point in case. Read about Elijah's encounter with God.



The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.


Why is there such an emphasis on faith? I honeslty don't know. I wish that God would clear this whole thing up for everyone and make it easy. All I can think of is that maybe faith is more important than seeing. After all, the devil could see God and yet he rebelled. (Let's not get into why) Perhaps God has implemented this justification by faith as a better method of having children. *shrugs* The mystery remains.


Happy birthday. Eat some cake for me

[edit on 23-12-2007 by dbates]



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 


you just stereotyped me there... and i don't see why that received so many stars (oh wait, yes i do, there's been a mass of those stereotypes and people like to see their own biases come out of the mouths of others)

anyway, i didn't, i left my heart open for quite a while, not even considering the situation scientifically and from an entirely faith-based perspective....

wish i had more time to respond, but i need to get ready for some birthday celebration stuff.


I humbly apologize if I did - it wasn't my intention. I was honestly just trying to help by delving in and giving food for thought. Happy Birthday - have a wonderful day with your loved ones.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron
This song came to mind, and seemed appropriate to the subject of this post...

God Speaking
by Ronnie Freeman

Have you ever heard a love song,
That set your spirit free?
Have you ever watched a sunrise,
And felt you could not breathe?
What if it's Him? What if it's God speaking?

Have you ever cried a tear that
You could not explain?
Have you ever met a stranger
Who already knew your name?
What if it's Him? What if it's God speaking?

Who knows how He'll get ahold of us?
Get our attention to prove He is enough.
He'll do, and He'll use whatever He wants to.
To tell us, I Love You.

Have you ever lost a loved one
Who you thought should still be here?
Do you know what it feels like
to be tangled up in fear?
What if He's somehow involved?
What if He's speaking through it all?

Who knows how He'll get ahold of us?
Get our attention to prove he is enough.
He'll do and He'll use whatever He wants to
To tell us, I love you.

His ways are higher yeah
His ways are better
And though sometimes strange
What could be stranger than God in a manger?

ooh yeah yeah yeahhh
Who knows how He'll get ahold of us?
Get our attention to prove He is enough.
Who knows how He'll get ahold of you?
Get your attention to prove he is enough.
He'll do and He'll use whatever He wants to,
To tell us I love you
God is speaking, I love you
ohhh yeahh


Very beautiful.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


i must say a huge smile bursted in my soul because of your post!

And i felt the Fathers heavy laughter in His joy because of You! i experienced this one for myself one time, that He was laughing at me in this way, and the spirit testified that it was because He knew something i didn't, and He was receiving a very joyful moment because of the process i would go through for both of our benefit. Man, He is smart. Too smart sometimes (Just kidding! Yeah...you know? Ok... Thanks or understanding.) Yep, same laugh for you... only i recognize in a different way. Not sure what that means, but i believe He is stating your process will be different than what i had to experience, even though i have always had a faith in Him. (No fair! hahahaha! Just totally kidding again!
This is happy because it sounds as if it is going to be easier for you!.


in retrospect i asked what His suggestion would be for you. His response: Just let go and listen to your feelings. The good ones. In you resides a place where you know you are loved. That is where you'll find me waiting.

Woweee, He took that one over completely when He was ready! Can't you tell by the last sentence? Turned from feeling Him, to full on out words.

Again: "In you resides a place where you know you are loved. That is where you'll find me waiting."

Love You



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 12:11 PM
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Hi Madness, Its great news that you are willing to open your heart to God. I really do hope that God reveals himself to you. I have been there when people are ready to ask him into their lives. I find it does help though if you "say the prayer".
God does ask that you have some faith that Jesus is real, faith as big as a mustard seed. That's not a lot of faith at all, just enough to believe that he exists. You then have to ask him into your life with a prayer that goes something like...
Jesus Christ, I believe that you are real and that you died for me on the cross.
I have sinned Lord and i ask that you forgive me my sins.
I pray that you will come into my life and teach me to be more like you.

Remember though that he knows what is in your heart and you really do need to be seeking him.
I will say a prayer for you and ask him to reveal himself to you.
I wish you the very best in this new venture in your life and I must say it has impressed me very much that you are sharing this with us.
John.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
How would you theists describe this lack of response?


Ok, so I have gardening stuck in my head. Must be my planning which seed to plant here in a few months..... Ok anyway.

Let's say this spring I prepare my soil and plant my seed(s). Water them. Fertilize them. Water them some more. Go to sleep. Wake up. Go out the next day and repeat wondering why there's still no plants and vegetables firing out of the ground at me...... You see where that's headed.

Then I get fretted and plow up the dirt and proceed to go ask some successful gardeners how they would describe that lack of response?


We are comparable to a spec of dust on his footstool and you expect him to ask you "how high" when you say jump?

If you seek him with a pure heart, you will find him. The thing is, is a day to him is as a thousand years. What if you ask him for something and he choses to wait ten or fifteen minutes in order to see how you will handle it?

[edit]
To make this even more interesting, what if he sends you several counterfeits to see whether you will follow them rather than keep seeking after him?

[edit on 23-12-2007 by WiseSheep]



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