Ron Paul keeps white supremacist donation

I'm jumping in right now without reading the rest of the thread because I don't care what you believe if you are an american, but what you believe as an american is right.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by Quasar]

reply to post by apc


You persist in ignoring what I have said time and time again:

It was well within the neo nazi's rights to make the donation. However, it was also in Pauls rights to refuse or return the same. He chose NOT too its reallty that simple.

[edit on 12/19/07 by FredT]

reply to post by krackedkid


I doubt it. There would have been a blurb about it and thats it.

Originally posted by FredT
Are you suggesting that we ignore this ethical and moral issue because the people in Washington are worse? Is he a lesser evil? Is he a greater evil?

Why is he any evil?

Answer these questions for me:

Does he have any policies which are racist in nature?

Do any of his policies scream 'evil' to you?

By accepting a donation, does that imply support of their personal beliefs?


I think what this thread really boils down to is your personal opinion. You've very clearly demonstrated you think it's a moral issue, but just how far you take those moral issues when judging a character - I don't know. So that's why I asked those questions to see just where you stand.

So, answer those questions. I withdraw from this debate like NGC2736 did. I'll certainly read your response, but I won't respond.

Despite all of this political bickering, I hope that we here at ATS, as well as all of the rest of the 'small people' in this country, could stand together if a situation ever arose where our government attempted to suppress us and destroy our right to have these types of discussions. I hope that we could set aside our political differences and get off of our donkey and elephant bandwagons and join together as Americans. I hope that no matter what our political views, we at least all stand for freedom, no matter what.

Thank you for the debate. It was interesting. Merry Christmas.

reply to post by FredT


His choosing not to is the point. Unless it could be shown that the donated money was somehow the gains of a criminal act, the only dirty thing about it is the personal opinions of the donor. Opinions which every single person has a right to. Even if we don't agree with that opinion, there are few things more important than their right to have it, and that is what must be respected.

LOL FredT your something special.

Do yourself a favor and watch the hit(in the video earlier in this thread) Cavuto tried to put on RP over this. RP took Cavuto to school. Cavuto even tried to associate the PRIVATE citizen in question with a group.

$10 mil raised in the last week ALL from PRIVATE citizens and you take issue with a $500.00 donation. I would really like to hear what you believe is moral and what is not when it comes to corporate and special interest donations in regards to electorial campaigns.

I would also like to know what kind of morality test you would give to make one eligible to keep donated money. Would a drunk driver qualify? Would a deadbeat dad qualify?

[edit on 19/12/2007 by shooterbrody]

It should be noted that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, and NAMBLA advocates acts that are illegal to the absolute extreme. Meanwhile promoting white supremacy is, though sickening, a protected right under the U.S. Constitution. It's one thing to deal with criminal organizations, it's another thing entirely to deal with distasteful ones...

I just wanted to address that, in case nobody else has yet.

If it was $500,000 I might care. $500 isn't going to sway anyone's political position. That's chump change.

I havent read all 5 pages yet. So, Im sorry if this is a repeat.

But I heard him earlier on the news respond by saying (paraphrasing)

"Why return the money to someone like that? Wouldnt it be better spent if I spend it instead?"

Basically saying, at least the money is in better hands now.

Did anyone else see this interview on Fox?


[edit on 19-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Why is he any evil?

Sorry I left out my [ rhetorical] tags read the whole question through. It was a responce to your basically saying it was okay because the regime in Washington was far worse. I subbed evil for worse.

As far as him being any better or any worse well we really don't know that untill he assumes the mantle of office

Yes it was fun. Merry Christmas to you as well



[edit on 12/19/07 by FredT]

Who would you rather have the $500? The good guy or the bad guy? Paul will spend that money to promote a good cause, the white supremacist might spend that money to promote hate. Paul is getting money from thousands of different sources, do you honestly expect him to do a background check on every person who donates money? Since there are millions of racists and white supremacists I wouldn't be surprised if all the candidates have received donations from these radicals. This is a non issue and I think Ron Paul responded perfectly. If Bin Laden gave $1 million to you, would you give it back to him so he can use it to fund another 9/11?

Originally posted by shooterbrody
LOL FredT your something special.

Why thank you, my mother ALWAYS said so. Be that as it may...

Do yourself a favor and watch the hit(in the video earlier in this thread) Cavuto tried to put on RP over this. RP took Cavuto to school. Cavuto even tried to associate the PRIVATE citizen in question with a group.

Are you suggesting that the guy that made the donation is not assosited with Stormfront?

I would really like to hear what you believe is moral and what is not when it comes to corporate and special interest donations in regards to electorial campaigns.

I actually support fixed funding of campaigns. Ive made it pretty clear where I stand on donations from hate groups eh?

I would also like to know what kind of morality test you would give to make one eligible to keep donated money.

Does this strawman have a set of overalls? As I have said before it would be impossible to test everybody. However, with public revelations that the money comes from a known neo nazi why would you want it? Yes you can go on and on about the legalities of it. But morals and ethics are another story.

Can you litmus test every campaign contributor? No. But if you do find one with morals, ethics and values contrary to your own you do not have to accept it.

[edit on 19/12/2007 by shooterbrody]

Originally posted by Sublime620
If it was $500,000 I might care. $500 isn't going to sway anyone's political position. That's chump change.

So your saying its not the group its the amount? your morals and ethics come into play at $500,000. Is this your price?

Are you suggesting that the guy that made the donation is not assosited with Stormfront?

No
Are you suggesting the donation came from stormfront? Perhaps the guy has changed his mind since then.

Ive made it pretty clear where I stand on donations from hate groups eh?

See that statement in relation to this story is a baldfaced lie. The group did not write the check the INDIVIDUAL did. BIG difference there pally. That is the same smeat tactic Cavuto tried on RP earlier.

Does this strawman have a set of overalls? As I have said before it would be impossible to test everybody. However, with public revelations that the money comes from a known neo nazi why would you want it? Yes you can go on and on about the legalities of it. But morals and ethics are another story.

LOL
There are no "legalities" to discuss; what was done in no way is illegal.(another attempt at smear) You admit it is impossible to test everyone then choose who to impose YOUR moraity on. That is laughable and is in no way credible.

Can you litmus test every campaign contributor? No. But if you do find one with morals, ethics and values contrary to your own you do not have to accept it.

So then your in the all or none crowd on this one. Unless someone entirely is in moral, ethical and in values in aggrement with you you cant accept money from them.

that is just dumb

You go ahead and not try to find common ground with anyone else in the usa. That stance will take you far in life bub.

get this out now...let it be known. there is mudd on everybody. anybody ever seen patriot games..let the msm get it out there. let him acknowledge and if apology is necessary then apologize and move on. hide it and that goes against what his message is. he should be our next president because of his message and that is what matters.

Why should he give it back? Can anyone supply a reasonable, logical reason why he should give that money back that is reconcilable with the American ideals (freedom, equality, etc.)?

If Ron Paul gives that money back, that will be the same as him saying to the white supremacist, "You're opinion's and even you as a person (because what is a person but the culmination of their beliefs and actions) don't mean anything to me; I will only support the freedom of American's whose beliefs I agree with."

No, anyone, regardless of what they believe, wether it's white supremacy, scientology, or eating babies, has the right to speak and be heard and part of that is supporting the politicians and parties they agree with. However, those people supporting the politician is not the same as the politician supporting the people's ideals.

Holding a belief is not the same as committing to action. Listening to an idea is not the same as agreeing with that idea.

reply to post by FredT


Personally, I'm against lobbyists and the whole bit. I don't think we should have anyone representing a private company or interest group giving money to or even whispering in our politician's ears.

However, this is not the case. My point was only that we are talking about $500. What's $500? I think tabacco and oil lobbyist donations are far more dangerous than some wacko donating $500 that no one cares about.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Sublime620]

Originally posted by NGC2736
Did anyone read my post, or is everything these days just knee jerk emotion?

Has the mental level fell so low that not a single person can "get" the concept that no matter how personally repulsive these people may be, they still have a right, by our Constitution, to be a part of the overall process in any way that is legal under the laws of the land?

How ignorant of the real law of representative government has everyone become?

i am sorry to say but your right...

People are blind , ignorant , and foaming at the mouth with hate

They live with blinders on, and cant see anything that goes agianst their tiny view of the world.

Like these people who think that rascists dont deserve a point of view. Its totally anti-democracy in reality tho.

Everyone deserves a point of view until your strip someone elses point of view away, then your a criminal.

I could care less what some rascist thinks, because i know hes an idiot. Im not a rascist, im a Humanist. I dislike all humans equally. Ha Ha

Another tidbit of rationality ....

Why are we arguging over 500$ that Paul got, when literally every other canidate gets money from fascists? Why dont we debate that?

Oh ya , because the hitpiece isnt on them, its on Paul. I forgot. Silly me.

This whole subject is really becoming retarded tho, Everyone is starting to sound like school children at prom night. How Mature and intelligent...

[edit on 20-12-2007 by muzzleflash]

Black said he supports Paul's stance on ending the war in Iraq, securing U.S. borders and his opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants.

"We know that he's not a white nationalist. He says he isn't and we believe him, but on the issues, there's only one choice," Black said Wednesday.

"We like his stand on tight borders and opposition to a police state," Black told The Palm Beach Post earlier.

news.yahoo.com...

The white supremacist himself said that. That right there tells me that even he is aware that this $500 private donation is not going to get any favoritism to his cause.

He donated the money because he supports some of the views of Ron Paul. I would say this is why Ron Paul chose to keep the money is the fact that he is aware this person is donating it for Ron Paul's cause and not his own.

If the money that was sent in were raised illegally that would be one thing, but since this is clean money there should be no moral issue at all. I wouldn't say this guy even supports Ron Paul on his moral standing, it's just his political standing he supports.

[edit on 12/20/07 by Hypntick]