THE RAPTURE: The Greatest Upheaval of Nature

Again, read my first post.
We are to look for Jesus today, not look for the antichrist and THEN look for him.

Matthew 24: 48 says...

"But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Read on down about the ten virgins in chapter 25. All were christians. ALL had oil (AT FIRST)
The five foolish ones didn't look ahead to Jesus' coming.
They only lived for today.

What does the bible say about scoffers?

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Clearskies]

Hi/
Before I begin to write what I have come here for, 'do you know how many 'RAPTURE' threads there are ATS' alone?
Far too many!
And so,
Nowhere in the Bible does it speak of a 'RAPTURE', It is NOT part of the teachings of Christ!
It never was!
The verse in the Scriptures that many seem to refer to as official proof for their being a 'RAPTURE' is USED at funerals!
It has always been used at funerals.
"Then we who are left alive will be carried off together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord." Less popular but often cited is Matthew 24:40-42, "Then there will be two in the field. One will be taken and the other left. Two will be grinding at the mill. One will be taken and the other left. Therefore, be vigilant, for you do not know on what day your Lord will come."verse, I Thess 4:17
St. Gregory of Nyssa says that the ascension is a natural consequence of the purity of the transfigured resurrection body: "...this change which takes place...
when the resurrection trumpet sounds which awakens the dead in an instant transforms those who are left alive to incorruptibility according to the likeness of those who have undergone the resurrection change, so that the bulk of the flesh is no longer heavy nor does its weight hold them down to earth, but they rise up through the air..." ("On the Making of Man" 22,6).
references
On Jesus Christs second coming?
"Then they will see the Son of Man,
coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,
and all His angels with Him … Then He will sit on the throne of His glory…" (Mt. 24:30, 25:31, Mk. 13:26).
Christs second coming wont be like His first coming!

When he calls us up, he won't have set foot upon the earth, yet.
The scripture says, We which are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up in the air to meet the Lord, and so shall we ever be with the lord.

And
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed; in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Cor. 15:51-53)

This IS the Rapture.

Scripture also says,''for the sake of the elect,their suffering wont be long,this time will be shortened (Mat. 24:21-22)

This is the "time of Jacob's troubles"
The " temptation which shall come upon all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth".

Thousand years before Christ was even born.....the Psalmist said: "Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish,
but You will endure; Yes, all of them will grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will have no end" (Psalm. 102:25-27)

This will happen AFTER armageddon.

EDIT.......the RAPTURE will not only confuse those true believers, but will be a deception for them them.This would make them believe that they are the 'chosen' ones selected to overcome the tribulation period that ALL people will go through..this is in Scripture....there will be no other way out.
What happens when there is no Rapture?
What then?

The bible says ALL that live godly shall suffer persecution.
We might die today, we might not.
But we won't receive tribulation from GOD UNLESS we're living in sin.





[edit on 8-12-2007 by Clearskies]

www.cosmicfingerprints.com...

New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God.

I ran across this the other day and thought it might be of interest to some.

reply to post by King Ben


A lot of that stuff goes over my head, But, I'll look at it again when I'm clear-headed.
Thank you for the link!

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
rapture believers are the funniest of all people

why do you think there will be a rapture?

not even the chosen 144,000 are raptured, whats makes you so special to get raptured

you are not chosen

please explain, why you think there is a pre-trib rapture, jesus doesnt appear again till after all the seals and trumpets

read your bible, get it right

thanks

Revelation 14:1-5

And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads. (2) And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps: (3) and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth. (4) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb. (5) And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.

Hebrews 12:18-24

For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (19) and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that no word more should be spoken unto them: (20) for they could not endure that which was enjoined, If even a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned; (21) and so fearful was the appearance, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake: (22) but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, (23) to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (24) and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than that of Abel.

It doesn't sound like theyre anywhere on earth.

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
rapture believers are the funniest of all people

why do you think there will be a rapture?

not even the chosen 144,000 are raptured, whats makes you so special to get raptured

you are not chosen

please explain, why you think there is a pre-trib rapture, jesus doesnt appear again till after all the seals and trumpets

read your bible, get it right

thanks

sage advice...

[edit on 9-12-2007 by reject]

You know what the funny thing about this is? You cant go to heaven if you sin, and nobody hasnt. And nobody's perfect. I think when the rapture comes around and nothing happens, there will be mass suicides.

Weren't those Heaven's Gate people from years back raptured?

But seriously. The only way to live is assume the rapture will not happen at any point so as not to set yourself up for any major disappointment if/when it doesn't happen.

The rapture doesn't make sense for several reasons Christians have been thrown to the lions in Rome, they've died by the millions in the black plague, they've been through wars and diseases. Doesn't make sense that those living in the end times for some reason become exempt from any harm or discomfort. And if the rapture happens after the tribulation, that doesn't make sense because believers are disappearing off the earth when Jesus is coming down onto it. What's the point of a rapture after the tribulation? None that I can see. And there is no cut and dry way to divide people either. Some people might believe in Christ but live lives of sin. Some people's beliefs or sins vary in degree. So I can't see a yes/no binary decision of who would get raptured and who wouldn't. Then there's the problem of other religions or those living in some remote jungle who have never heard of Christ and why they wouldn't be raptured. The concept has too many flaws.

reply to post by Elhardt


Some comments to your statements
>>"The rapture doesn't make sense for several reasons Christians have been thrown to the lions in Rome" - which is all the more reason to note they believed in something even unto death..most men/women will not die for something they are unsure of- many were asked to deny but would not. Martyrs are special to God I believe.
>>Doesn't make sense that those living in the end times for some reason become exempt from any harm or discomfort...sure if it is God's will then I'm sure it will happen as you say... but many verses lead to a different conclusion.
>>And if the rapture happens after the tribulation, that doesn't make sense because believers are disappearing off the earth when Jesus is coming down onto it. What's the point of a rapture after the tribulation?- I agree
>>And there is no cut and dry way to divide people either. Either you believe Christ was God's sinless son sent to earth and rose from the dead to ascend to heaven or you don't pretty simple...
>>Some people might believe in Christ but live lives of sin. Some people's beliefs or sins vary in degree. This is true and a matter of Holy Spirit who is at work in all our lives.
>>Then there's the problem of other religions or those living in some remote jungle who have never heard of Christ and why they wouldn't be raptured. ... To a point this is correct since I don't believe rapture will take place until God in his infinite wisdom looks over all humanity and determines not one left will choose Christ. Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Elhardt, my grandparents dismiss the rapture for the same reason- that it wouldn't be "fair" for God to let some Christians die a martyr's death and then have others escape persecution via the rapture.

That argument has never made any sense to me. If God wanted everything to be "even" then we wouldn't have poor Christians and rich Christians, some Christians living freely to pronounce their faith in the U.S. while those in Islamic countries are beheaded for their faith, and some Christians who die of horrible diseases while others die warm and comfortable in their own beds of old age.

I could go on but you get the point. Jesus told the disciples were are all appointed to different lives, responsibilities, and even our ends.

Ashley..you are exactly right concerning fairness. Ultimately we were created..God is the creator..We can question what He says/does..But it is kinda like an ant wondering about how to make an A bomb. Even so, I can imagine a bunch of lawyers at the judgement..this isn't fair because la da da. A life jacket (Christ) was thrown to drowning men(us)..either grab hold and have eternal life or try to tread water apart.

They shouldve come up with a better name than rapture. Hou can millions of people dying be jouful?

Originally posted by shiman
They shouldve come up with a better name than rapture. Hou can millions of people dying be jouful?

Er... you do understand that the people supposedly raptured do not die, right? They are taken up bodily and transformed into incorruptible beings.

reply to post by Arkanjel


without scanning pages from my own you can see about murder here:
christianity.wikia.com...

And various Gods here:
www.holysmoke.org...

Take a look at any new christian bible some printings are not calling God/Lord - the creator

Originally posted by shiman
You know what the funny thing about this is? You cant go to heaven if you sin, and nobody hasnt. And nobody's perfect. I think when the rapture comes around and nothing happens, there will be mass suicides.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by shiman]

reply to post by rezial666


correction "now" calling

Originally posted by reject

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
rapture believers are the funniest of all people

why do you think there will be a rapture?

not even the chosen 144,000 are raptured, whats makes you so special to get raptured

you are not chosen

please explain, why you think there is a pre-trib rapture, jesus doesnt appear again till after all the seals and trumpets

read your bible, get it right

thanks

Revelation 14:1-5

And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads. (2) And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps: (3) and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth. (4) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb. (5) And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.

Hebrews 12:18-24

For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (19) and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that no word more should be spoken unto them: (20) for they could not endure that which was enjoined, If even a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned; (21) and so fearful was the appearance, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake: (22) but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, (23) to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (24) and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than that of Abel.

It doesn't sound like theyre anywhere on earth.

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
rapture believers are the funniest of all people

why do you think there will be a rapture?

not even the chosen 144,000 are raptured, whats makes you so special to get raptured

you are not chosen

please explain, why you think there is a pre-trib rapture, jesus doesnt appear again till after all the seals and trumpets

read your bible, get it right

thanks

sage advice...

[edit on 9-12-2007 by reject]

they are on earth during the tribulation, they are not on earth for the final battle

read the whole book, geesh

they are not harmed at all during all the seals and trumpets

wow you are ridiculous

reply to post by shiman


That is the entire point of Christianity. Every other religion without fail has some sort of system where man tries to reach their god's approval by rites and rituals, works and deeds, an other dogmatic beliefs. Jesus knew we were incapable of saving ourselves and that even the holiest people who loved God with all of their hearts would still sin. It has nothing to do with being perfect or else we'd all be screwed, for lack of a better word. We are not saved due to our own actions but through Jesus alone.

As for your rapture comment. It makes no logical sense to me. In essence you say if the rapture happens but then nothing happens then people will be upset. Well, if the rapture happens then something will happen. What exactly are you talking about?

reply to post by AshleyD


i think he means when the rapture doesnt happen and it wont, alot of people are going to be sad and wonder what went wrong, in essence turning themselves from god in anger that they were led fasely

its gonna be a sad say when people realize that

reply to post by MurderCityDevil


I wholeheartedly believe in a rapture. The only question I have is when it will happen during God's timeline. Pretribulation? Midtribulation? Prewrath? Posttribulation?

As I mention in my first comment to this post, I am about 90% certain of a pretribulation rapture and explain my reasoning. However, I don't preach the view dogmatically and I get disappointed with anyone who teaches their view of the rapture is the only correct view. There are four views concerning the timing of the rapture. All four have believers who swear they are the only ones who are correct. That leaves three views that will be wrong.

Spreading such confusion will undoubtedly lead to disappointment because only one view can be correct. If the rapture does not occur exactly when men claim, it will lead to scoffing from unbelievers and disappointment and unbelief by Christians. Because of this, instead of being dogmatic as to the timing, all I can do is follow Jesus' instructions to always be ready because we don't know when He will return.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by shiman

 

That is the entire point of Christianity. Every other religion without fail has some sort of system where man tries to reach their god's approval by rites and rituals, works and deeds, an other dogmatic beliefs. Jesus knew we were incapable of saving ourselves and that even the holiest people who loved God with all of their hearts would still sin. It has nothing to do with being perfect or else we'd all be screwed, for lack of a better word. We are not saved due to our own actions but through Jesus alone.

As for your rapture comment. It makes no logical sense to me. In essence you say if the rapture happens but then nothing happens then people will be upset. Well, if the rapture happens then something will happen. What exactly are you talking about?

i meant if the day or month of the pridicted rapture comes and goes, then there might be mass suicides of dissapointed people.