Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

reply to post by Boondock78


Of course I'm not sure they *had* to resort to crime. I'm saying it's a possibility. For all we know, that guy could have been a great father, a caring husband, and a loyal son.

He may also have been a total piece of crap.

We simply don't know and I find it rather distasteful that so many people would be so happy about a tragedy.

The shooter isn't a hero. He's the tool of unfortunate circumstance. A heroic event would have resulted in no deaths and a couple of former criminals deciding to leave their past behind and work towards becoming productive members of society... but that wouldn't make headlines.

I am really, really disgusted with most of the comments some people have been putting on here. These 2 men were mudered, plain and simple. And the majority of you are applauding that?? Are you seriously insane??

I don't care how expensive the property that these guys were stealing was, they did not deserve to die. And the man who shot them had absolutely no right, in regards to morals, common sense, sanity, to go out there and shoot them. I know that some of you are saying he had every LEGAL right to, but that just goes to show how backwards, dangerous and cowboy-like the gun laws are over there.

The 2 men WERE criminals but their crime did not warrant a death sentence. The people on here who say that what happened was good sicken me.

If 2 men came into my home and stole my TV or VCR or some other material item that that I did work hard for, I would be pretty damn upset, and if my neighbour came and tried to help then I would be fully appreciative of that. But if that neighbour came around here with a gun while trying to help I would instantly be 100 times more afraid of the neighbour. And if he shot those 2 men dead then I gurantee you that he would be charged with murder, or at least manslaughter. And to be honest I would be pretty glad that I no longer had a neighbour living next to me who would so willingly pull out a gun to act the "hero".

Let's face it, people do bad things in their lives all the time, they make mistakes. If breaking into a house and stealing something was the very worst thing that these 2 blokes were gonna do in their lives then I say good. They didn't kill anyone (unlike our "hero"), they didn't hurt anyone. Even if it were me they stole from. I would rather go through the tedious insurance process then have those men killed.

People have no regard for human life anymore. Those men would have had family, a mother, father, sisters, brothers, children. Their stealing would have upset a few innocent families (in regards to feeling safe in their homes, etc), but their murder is going to destroy and hurt other innocent lives, much worse and for much, much longer.

If you can't see how much more unecessary pain that this is going to cause then I really feel sorry for you.

I am so very very glad that I live down here in Australia, where guns in homes are not the norm. I feel so much safer. I am so glad that something like this would almost never ever happen. This story makes me feel extremely lucky to live in the country I live in right now.

reply to post by BitRaiser


Couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by BitRaiser


Of course I'm not sure they *had* to resort to crime. I'm saying it's a possibility. For all we know, that guy could have been a great father, a caring husband, and a loyal son.

^^^^i suppose that depends on what your definition of a great father/husband is.
i am thinking that for the most part, responsible adults with kids don't go out and break into homes....
you may be right but my gut says no.
if he was that fantastic, maybe he should have thought of that before he broke in.


We simply don't know and I find it rather distasteful that so many people would be so happy about a tragedy.

^^^^^i am by no means happy, but not sad either.... icare enough to talk with you guys about it..somebody, somewhere in this country just got killed.
and just now another was kllled.


The shooter isn't a hero.

i just find these theories of stealing to feed your fam or whatever....
do they not have temp services in texas?
up here, they are all over. you odn't even need wheels. you get to the work hall at whatever time and the van drops you off. you get your money via check at the end of that day and cash it right back in the hall.

they could go rough it out for ONE day and make enough to buy food for a fair bit.

I personally don't understand how people can defend the rights of criminals in cases such as this. In my opinion he was justifed in shooting them. There is no way to tell if one of them had a weapon they were intending to use; and what if they went on to rob or possibly even kill someone else?

This to me is a case of a citizen acting in the defense of his neighbors. Good for him. It demonstrates that the spirit of self reliance is still alive and well in America. Instead of rolling over and letting them get away with it, he actually did something to protect his neighborhood. Other criminals will now think twice about preying on that part of town. If this were to happen to me I would want my neighbors to do the same.

reply to post by Toy_soldier


Indeed!


Poor poor criminals.

It's a damn shame that there are actually pieces of *snippity* in this country that won't let these poor unfortunate souls go about their daily lives consisting of breaking into someone's house and stealing the things they likely worked very hard for. Not to mention taking away the sense of safety the family likely had beforehand.



Several of you guys should go check out an old thread of mine in regards to my "Adopt a Criminal Scumbag Program".

You bleeding hearts types really need to start housing these pieces of trash so you can let them have all the "rights" you want them to have, at least so long as they remain within the wall of your home.


I am willing to bet one thing. I bet you the neighbors of the "murderer" will likely feel safer now than they did before.



These guys broke the law of their own free will. The took it open themselves to rob a fellow human being of a sense of safety as well as their possessions. The SECOND they took it upon themselves to take the rights away from the family who's home they broke into, they also gave up their rights.


They, as well as their families, have absolutely NO ONE to blame but themselves.



Jasn

Originally posted by Toy_soldier


I don't care how expensive the property that these guys were stealing was, they did not deserve to die. And the man who shot them had absolutely no right, in regards to morals, common sense, sanity, to go out there and shoot them.

^^^^everyone has different morals....yours may not be the same as his...


The 2 men WERE criminals but their crime did not warrant a death sentence. The people on here who say that what happened was good sicken me.


^^^^i'm not really glad they are dead, but i am not sad either....tell you what though, better two punks breaking into a home than some innocents.


they didn't hurt anyone.

^^^^would they have? should we wait and watch as people go and invade others property...


People have no regard for human life anymore.

^^^^humans are inherantly(sp) bad, imo


Those men would have had family, a mother, father, sisters, brothers, children. Their stealing would have upset a few innocent families (in regards to feeling safe in their homes, etc), but their murder is going to destroy and hurt other innocent lives, much worse and for much, much longer.

^^^^^if they had all that then maybe, just maybe they shouldn't be commiting crimes....ya think? what a great dad. what a great son...please


If you can't see how much more unecessary pain that this is going to cause then I really feel sorry for you.

^^^^no need. better them take the big nap than the old lady in the house they're gonna hit next...

This story makes me feel extremely lucky to live in the country I live in right now.

you sound like a happy guy..
this is the way it is in this country...people carry.

Since so many of you think that these two guys did not deserve what they got.

Take this scenario into account, its not your neighbor who is being robbed its you.

What would you do?
Would you let them walk out with your $2000 plasma screen tv, or would you defend your property?

These two burgulars chose a vilolent and unpredictible life of crime and ended up dead.
Just because the guy said IM GOING TO KILL THEM, does not mean he was not defending himself. If Im about to shoot at two burgulars who could be armed, make no mistake im gonna have the intentions of killing them.

Those two burgulars are dead because they broke the law, the guy who shot them was within his legal rights to do so.

Here is that thread I referred you "lovers of the criminal" to.


SimiusDei's Adopt a Criminal Scumbag Program

Since so many people in the good ol' US of A would like to see us stop treating criminals like criminals. Perhaps we really should cease our "Capital Punishment" program and offer a different route for those who feel sentencing a murderer to death is cruel and inhuman punishment.

Perhaps we should just institute an "Adopt a Criminal" program. Then all of these (in)human rights types could feel a bit better about themselves by sparing a rapist/murderer/molester's life and bringing them into their own homes to help "rehabilitate" them.

J

reply to post by Blitz


Indeed!


And who is to say that the gunman's home wasn't the next on the list? If I see a couple of criminals breaking into my neighbor's house, I think it's safe to say that I would assume that I might be next.


I'm a huge fan of eliminating the problem before it becomes a problem.

I don't know if i agree with the guy shooting the two burglers. Does the end result fit the crime? In other words if the two burglers were caught and prosecuted would they have recieved the death sentece? I'm from Australia so laws and culture are different.

SimiusDei, that post you're linking us to is talking about rapists/murderers/molesters. A far cry from petty theft.

I believe that rapists/murderers/molesters deserve to be punished very, very harshly, and in some cases executed, and I also believe that this texan hero falls under one of the above categories. Guess which one?

And just as a sidenote, I do feel a little sad every time I hear about someone being executed, regardless of whether they deserved it or not. I mean, what a waste of life. I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be done, I just think it's a terrible and sad situation.

I have family members who have commited crimes in their past. I bet you know someone who has commited a crime in their past, silly mistakes that they would look back on and shake their heads at. Do they deserve to die too? Did they deserve to die at the time the crime was commited?

What if these 2 men weren't killed and whatever they stole was the last crime they ever commited. 3 years down the track, the neighbour saw them and rocognised them as the people who burgled the house, would he still have the right to shoot them? What's the difference between shooting them immediately after the crime was commited or 3 years after? They're still criminals, right?

And Blitz, if guys were walking out of my house with my $2000 plasma screen tv and my options were to either let them go, or kill them, I would let them go. A television, or any other piece of electronics or whatever, is never ever worth a human life.

As for the gun law thing, I shouldn't have brought it up. It's a different issue entirely. And I realise that we have completely different cultures when it comes to guns, and though I don't agree with yours, I still have to respect it.

I feel that the people going on about how everything went down the way it should have are much, much more dangerous individuals than the people who are stealing things.

I'm not familiar with the laws of Texas so I won't comment that aspect, rather I will comment on the moral aspect of this.

I have NONE, 0, NADA respect for criminals, specially THIS type of criminals, I have been victim of a crime, I have witness crimes being commited, is an experience you never forget is stays with you your WHOLE LIFE. When someone decides to strip you of your basic right of feeling safe within your neighborhood, your house, your car, is game on IMO.

For some of you who have never been witness or experince it first hand I will tell you this, you don't know how much this type of criminals affect your life mentally you never feel the same. This low life decided to intrude your privacy for some material stuff that they are to lazy to work for probably to get HIGH and while they laugh and get HIGH with the stuff that you work for, they leave you with the lowest feeling of security and selfworth that you can have.

You feel violated, angry, fearful, countless nights of lack of sleep because you don't know if they coming back, every sound weaks you up, fear to live your family alone, I mean I can go on and on.

I wish I had a gun when I was getting carjack, I wish I would have had a shotgun and be present at my house when they ransack everthing my dad and mom work for and only left them with fear and tears.

if you decide that you are going to make a living out of violating and causing that much damage mentally and sometimes physically to other people, then you should deal with the cards that you draw for yourself.

This guys is not a hero or a criminal, he did what he thought was the right thing and I happen to agree with his actions.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by Bunch]

[edit on 1-12-2007 by Bunch]

As far as I'm concerned it's not what they were stealing but the principle of the matter. They broke into a family's home. The residual affect of a robbery is far lasting mentally, without thought of the material losses. It's not about a TV, or a bag of jewelry, but it IS about the invasion of the family's home and ransacking it as you please for your personal benefit. As a thief, you'd have to realize the consequences of your actions, and death is definitely one of them.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by Siren

 

Nearly 10 minutes.

That was about the same amount of time it took them to respond to my call when I was taken out by a drunk driver. You learn quickly that you shouldn't rely on anybody but yourself.

I've had to call the cops several times over a few things - for some of the lesser stuff they didn't even bother to show up.

However at a previous residence (also in Texas) when I called over someone lurking in my backyard/trying to break in (several times) they got there quick fast. However if the bad guy would have gotten in 2 minutes before the cop got there I may be dead (no gun, just a knife and some mace).

As someone else here said - if you've never been on the receiving end of some home invasion type stuff it's real easy to chat lightly on this type of thing.

I ended up losing my job since I couldn't sleep at night because of my fear of a break in.

In retrospect I wish I would have had a pump action next to the bed instead of a knife. Knives seem like such a good defense until you realize how close you must be to use one.

And what made that so extra cool was my employer didn't even really believe me. They pretended like I was making it up but let me slide the 1st time I was late "just in case" I was telling the truth. The second time I was late I was fired**. I was suppose to be at work by like 9am but because of my terror I normally couldn't fall asleep until about 5am or so.

It took me over a year to get over that and I still suffer from it a little today.

Good times, good times.

** Other factors played into this but ultimately it was because I was late. I wasn't exactly the perfect employee but if I wouldn't have been late I would have been able to keep my job for much longer.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by discomfit]

reply to post by discomfit


I've been in the same situation as far as response times. I was smashed by a drunk driver in a huge F-100 and it took the police nearly 15 minutes to show up. After they did, they argued with me over how fast I was going down the street because there were heavy tire marks. This is after I dragged myself out of my driverside window. They didn't catch the guy and didn't try and pursue him for more than maybe 10 minutes. His truck was heavily damaged and would have been EASILY trackable.

I had another time where the police didn't care to respond to a domestic disturbance call in an apartment complex and I was left to bang it out with some older guy trying to fight his wife and his friend. They even tried to charge me with assault after I finished the job they should have. Charges were eventually dropped, but regardless... these instances have proven to me that the police sometimes don't work, and you're better off relying on yourself!

And good on you for getting a gun. Better safe than sorry.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by mad scientist
This is America isn't it ? I would assume that most of the time criminals are armed rather than not. As I have already said, you are amking assumptions based on loack of knowlede about what went on.

I guess we're both guilty of making assumptions. However, in my scenario everyone lives. In your's people die.

Yeah, in your scenario everyone lives until those guys break into someones home, and someone happens to be home at that time. What happens then?

I find it somewhat amusing that you, who profess such suspicion of law enforcement, would advocate letting the police handle it. Changing our tune are we?

Seemingly this guy did everything above board, nothing against the law. Murderer? Nope. Overreact? Maybe. I don't know all the particulars of what happened, so I'll reserve judgement.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I did read the whole thread, but the first couple pages are a little fuzzy by now. The impression I got out of the call made by our "hero" was that he went out to confront the 2 criminals, and they made a move towards him. He said, "I had no choice, they made a move into the front yard with me" I may be wrong, that they may still have been in the neighbours front yard.

He DID say, kind of under his breath, "I'm gonna kill 'em" at the 6:06 mark in the audio of the 911 call. That will certainly come into play if there is any kind of trial over this.

It's a tough call. I'm all for acting in self defense, especially if someone comes into my home uninvited. I don't think we have the same type of self defense laws here in Canada, I'm gonna have to look that up, and if we don't that is crap. The choice to be a criminal is yours, and yours alone, and if you make that choice, then you have to be prepared to live with the consequences, even if it is death(I guess you don't have to live with that one)

Our "hero" acted in good conscience, but in this case, it may have gone a little to far. Hopefully this incident will make other would be home invaders think twice about doing something retarded like this.

reply to post by Kronik98


I think all he wanted was an excuse to blow their heads off.

Total asshole.

Those who are talking about home invasion need to realize that it's on a different level than a break-in when no-one's home.

If the shooter had heard cries for help or knew that the family next door was home, I'd be all for him charging in there and blowing the criminals away. Why? Because someone innocent would have been in danger. If it comes down to a choice between an innocent life and a someone who is threatening them, I do believe the choice is not just simple... it's default.

This wasn't the case.
He went after these two after they were leaving the premises. There was no danger to a human life until he stepped into things. The crime had already been committed. The only thing he saved was a bag full of possessions.

I was once broken into by this real piece of crap. We (my roommates and I) knew full well who did it, especially after I escorted the landlord into the "suspect's" apartment. The cops wouldn't do anything about it... considered it a minor crime (although I had lost an over $3000 CD collection). Being a bit ticked off, I asked the cop straight up "So what should we do? Go find this guy and work him over?", to which the cop replied, "Well, I can't say anything officially, but if you did the case would receive less attention than this one.". So... ah... we did. Found the dude and kicked the living crap out of him. The dark part of me wanted to kill him, and we certainly could have, but we left him hurting and alive to learn his lesson.

The upshot of all this is that not too long later, we heard he had been killed in an altercation with a drug dealer. Funny thing is I wasn't happy to hear it. I wasn't exactly sad, either, but a little part of me had hoped that our demonstration of cause and effect would have knocked some sense into him.

Alas, the only good he ever accomplished was being the vector through which a drug dealer was arrested on murder charges.

So that's my personal story told.
I'm still against killing a thief, even if you catch him red handed.