Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

These men shot and killed were someones brother, son, father, husband and friend. Why are their lives so carelessly talked about here as if though they dont matter?

People who commit crimes are not destined to lives of horrible deeds.

The father of my child is a felon, a burglary charge from when he was young and made a big mistake by being with the wrong people at the wrong time and in the wrong place.

He has never committed another criminal act. He is a contributing member of society and a loving father and son and he matters.

The items stolen, the theft itself was in no way a justifed reason to end two lives.

Thank god I dont live in Texas, for all I know, my own son could someday be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and get shot.

All the laws and bickering aside, these were people, who had thoughts and feelings and made a wrong choice and paid the ultimate price and they did not deserve to die for what they had done.

reply to post by discomfit

While it's all true that Texas has an amazing economy and cities like Houston are expanding rapidly. I have always theorized that the people in Texas are not as smart. I grew up here and went away to school at 16 and arriving back here 12 years later.

I with no doubt in my mind know that majority of the people here are dumbed down. Could it be then that the key to CORPORATE success is a dumbed down working class. I think Texas is what the corporate puppet masters would like the world to become.

As far as Austin goes. There is no other place in Texas to live. One of the coolest cities in North America. All the smart free thinkers are drawn there. I would be willing to bet the average IQ in Austin is 15 to 20 points higher than the rest of the state.

When I was a teenager I got in with the "wrong crowd" for awhile and did a couple of burglaries. Well we ended up getting caught and i learned my lesson - I was about 15 at the time and haven't broke the law since, I like to think I am now a productive member of society, contributing and raising kids.

So for those that agree with the neighbor killing the thieves, I guess you also believe I should have been shot and killed for the same, for making that one mistake as a stupid kid... hello, time to stop watching your action movies and playing your violent killing games. Time to get a reality check... it's called innocent until proven guilty:

It's called civilization - if you don't like it got to Africa or somewhere else where life is cheap and you can play out your "honorable" killing fantasies

-Sobolwolf

reply to post by sobolwolf


As far as people committing crimes:

I believe the crimes children do (most - except rape/murder) deserve different punishment then what adults would get for doing the same crime.

ADULTS KNOW BETTER - No ifs, ands or buts. No excuse is acceptable IMO. Adults should be held to a MUCH higher standard then children. And adults should make the choice to NOT commit a crime. Shhheeeese. Either these people committing crimes are complete idiots or they dont care about anyone but themselves....and dont deserve to be walking around amongst the rest of us.

They chose to commit a crime....and ooooops....got themselves killed. Let that be a lesson to all those who are deciding on whether or not to commit a crime against someone else - JUST DONT.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

[edit on 1-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by Ellipsis

Thank god I dont live in Texas, for all I know, my own son could someday be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and get shot.

Because he could only be shot in Texas?

I was born and raised where you are, in Oregon. Oregon has similar laws.

I envy you, I miss Oregon so much. I dont miss the state taxes, however, and choose to choke on dust to keep what I earn.

Originally posted by Ellipsis
These men shot and killed were someones brother, son, father, husband and friend. Why are their lives so carelessly talked about here as if though they dont matter?

People who commit crimes are not destined to lives of horrible deeds.

They are not destined - but the odds are against them ever going straight.

The father of my child is a felon, a burglary charge from when he was young and made a big mistake by being with the wrong people at the wrong time and in the wrong place.
He has never committed another criminal act. He is a contributing member of society and a loving father and son and he matters.

The father of your child was one in a million.

All the laws and bickering aside, these were people, who had thoughts and feelings and made a wrong choice and paid the ultimate price and they did not deserve to die for what they had done.

More of this old "they are people" argument. Charles Manson, Ed Gein, David Berkowitz, John Wayne Gacy, Osama Bin Laden, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot were people too. They had thoughts and feelings too. And what of their victims? Didn't they have feelings as well? Do the feelings of one criminal, murderer, or dictator override those of all their victims?

Also answer this question: Why do habitual criminals have so little fear of the law - and in many cases, honest law-abiding people seem to fear the law even more than criminals do? That could explain why honest people take the law into their own hands.

First off anyone who feels sorry for these two burgulars, needs to get there prioritys in order. These two guys had a choice and they chose wrong.
They could of worked like the rest of us, but they chose to take what someone else has worked for. So they got exactly what was coming to them, a few rounds of buckshot I suppose.

Make no mistake if you decide to break into my house or my neighbors, and I catch you.

I guarantee, the last thing you will ever see, is the muzzle flash of my .357 magnum.

Originally posted by sobolwolf
So for those that agree with the neighbor killing the thieves, I guess you also believe I should have been shot and killed for the same, for making that one mistake as a stupid kid... hello, time to stop watching your action movies and playing your violent killing games. Time to get a reality check... it's called innocent until proven guilty

No, you got it all wrong. I dont think anyone said you should have been shot for being a thief, just that had you been shot it would have been your own fault. If you don’t want to get shot as a thief, don’t steal.

And whets with the line about innocent until proven guilty? The men were caught in the act, so where do we draw the line? Should a woman allow a rapist to have his way because although she knows what is happening, the man still has not had his fair trial?

It's called civilization - if you don't like it got to Africa or somewhere else where life is cheap

A: No reason to dis Africans over this, there are some nice places in Africa.

B: You should take your own advice. If you dont like the constitution and the American way, go live in one of the countries that disarms victims

Originally posted by cavscout
No, you got it all wrong. I dont think anyone said you should have been shot for being a thief,

Never mind, Blitz said it.

reply to post by IAmTetsuo

Also answer this question: Why do habitual criminals have so little fear of the law - and in many cases, honest law-abiding people seem to fear the law even more than criminals do?

I understand.

That could explain why honest people take the law into their own hands.

Excluding a revolution, if honest people do that wouldn't they be contributing to the very thing they are in opposition of.

Well, I'm a Texan. This kind of thing IS heroic. I mean, the police would've stopped him, so why shouldn't Horn have been able to?


And oh yeah, I lol'd at "Shot two DEAD burglars." Lol.

reply to post by Siren


Nearly 10 minutes.

That was about the same amount of time it took them to respond to my call when I was taken out by a drunk driver. You learn quickly that you shouldn't rely on anybody but yourself.

Really, all arguments aside, this boils down to a very simple case;

He said "I'm going to kill them", then he did.
That's call premeditation, folks. It is hard evidence of murder.

If he had said "I'm going to stop them", then ended up killing them because he felt threatened, it wouldn't be so cut and dried.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not all soft 'n squishy on criminals. There's some local crackheads/dealers that I certainly wouldn't shed any tears over if they happened to get capped. I've even engaged in some less than legal behavior towards them.

I just don't believe that going out to kill someone over a bag of worldly goods is anything close to the picture of "civilized society" that we like to paint for ourselves. I mean, we don't have any context for the robbers. We know one was a father... would you resort to theft to feed your starving child if you had no other recourse?

Thieves are scum but murderers are worse.

He said he was going to kill them, then did it. That's premeditated murder.

This man deserves punishment, but by the sounds of what people are saying, he won't be.

If you did something like that here in Australia you'd get life.

Originally posted by Ellipsis
These men shot and killed were someones brother, son, father, husband and friend. Why are their lives so carelessly talked about here as if though they dont matter?


^^^^^^^they should probably think about that and uhhhh, don't comit crimes....there is a thought eh?



The father of my child is a felon, a burglary charge from when he was young and made a big mistake by being with the wrong people at the wrong time and in the wrong place.


^^^^^happens a lot. that said, if your childs father attempted to break into my home, your child would be fatherless.


Thank god I dont live in Texas, for all I know, my own son could someday be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and get shot.

^^^^^^^could happen anywhere, but, it is less likely if he is not breaking into someones home...

All the laws and bickering aside, these were people, who had thoughts and feelings and made a wrong choice and paid the ultimate price and they did not deserve to die for what they had done.

do we know what their intent was?
were the gonna commit the robbery and then rob three more houses and maybe punch an old lady in the process?

i ask these cause all these have happened...
some grandma got her house robbed. someone knocked on her door and they sprayed hairspray in her face to 'blind' her and then clocked her and proceeded to loot her joint.

MOST people that commit these kinds of crimes, have done it before or if it's their first time, they will do it again.


personally, i like the message of, 'break into THIS house and you get a bullet'.
pretty basic....i will NOT be victimized again.....no way, no how

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by sobolwolf
So for those that agree with the neighbor killing the thieves, I guess you also believe I should have been shot and killed for the same, for making that one mistake as a stupid kid... hello, time to stop watching your action movies and playing your violent killing games. Time to get a reality check... it's called innocent until proven guilty

No, you got it all wrong. I dont think anyone said you should have been shot for being a thief, just that had you been shot it would have been your own fault. If you don’t want to get shot as a thief, don’t steal.

So if, heaven forbid one of your children (or future children) makes a mistake, gets in with the wrong crowd and gets killed in a botched up burg you will just think, oh well, he shouldn't steal...

IMO when someone kills someone else and the person killed is not armed it is called murder, plain and simple. Unless it is in the act of stopping them killing someone else - not over material goods...

BTW I am not in the US, I am in Brazil and here life is cheap and you can get killed for wearing the wrong football colors, probably a good place for you right wingers. just join the police force here and you will get all the "fun" you need...

reply to post by Boondock78

personally, i like the message of, 'break into THIS house and you get a bullet'.
pretty basic....i will NOT be victimized again.....no way, no how

I have known a few people who have stickers like that on their/near their front door.

It says something like "We have guns and are not afraid to use them"

reply to post by BitRaiser


I'm not defending or condoning his actions whatsoever, but there have been times where in a fight I say "I'm going to kill you m*f*!" Because my adrenaline is going and I'm a dumb guy just like the rest of you, but that doesn't mean I'm literally going to kill them. I don't think it's an admittance of guilt in any way shape or form. If I was to say "I'm going to kill you" give a guy a mean right straight, he falls wrong and is dead, is that premeditated murder? Seems to me, he said the same thing a lot of us would given the situation. I do believe he deserves to be reprimended, but this is less premeditated and more stupidity and disregard for the lives of others.

Originally posted by sobolwolf
When I was a teenager I got in with the "wrong crowd" for awhile and did a couple of burglaries.

So for those that agree with the neighbor killing the thieves, I guess you also believe I should have been shot and killed for the same, for making that one mistake as a stupid kid...

It's called civilization -

1)about your burglaries....i am not saying you SHOULD have been shot and killed but thats a risk you take when you break into a home....
see, if you say slide into my window, uninvited, i will have to assume you are there to harm me....should i assume you are sliding through my window to make friends?
course not.....i only have one first hand experience to go on and i will NEVER forget and to this day i still think about it.
i wouldn't say you deserved to be killed but i would have shot you. if you died, i would not have felt bad about it...
maybe i'm an A-hole....thats cool. it is what it is.

in the real world, if you hear someone breaking in and call the cops, it's gonna take several minutes to get there. those are minutes that i can not play with.

2)it's called self preservation.
what are we to do? call the cops and run and hide in the bathroom with your fingers and toes crossed, wishing the cops get there before god knows who gets to you..
i mean, you guys are all aware that there are and have been VICIOUS serial killers that killed people IN THEIR HOME....


maybe we should cowl in the corner, in the tub hoping against hope that all they do is take the silverware...

i never did get my question answered by anyone..

how many of you have been the victim of a burglary in your home?.....how safe do you feel?

reply to post by sobolwolf

So if, heaven forbid one of your children (or future children) makes a mistake, gets in with the wrong crowd and gets killed in a botched up burg you will just think, oh well, he shouldn't steal...

Im sure most people would be devastated - of course. However, with that said...I also would be saying "damn it that he made a bad choice - and this was the consequence of that choice".

Unfortunately we (that includes our children) have to suffer some not so nice consequences when we CHOOSE to break a law.