Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

www.examiner.com

A Texas man has provoked a debate about the right to self-defence in America after he shot dead two burglars as they were leaving a neighbour’s house.

The cha-chick of a shell entering a shotgun's chamber rattled through the 911 line just before Joe Horn stepped out his front door.

Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor's suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

He did.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Oh my... way to go.

So what will be done, if anything?
Was he reckless, was he acting as a militia defending his neighbourhood's property? Or did he really fear for his life?

It would appear he was right, and wrong at the same time.

He could have stayed where he was, but he did have a right to help protect property..

This looks like it could be debated by the media and the courts for quite a while.


www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Some interesting conflicts in the report...

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

His comment before stepping out amounts to premeditation. He planned on killing these two and then did. That perty much tanks any claim of "self defense". In fact, it's not a big legal leap to make that grounds for murder charges. If you plan to kill someone, then do it, it's murder. Kinda cut and dried.

Then again, Texas is a rather odd place in it's celebration of justice through the employment of firearms. I doubt this guy will have much trouble.

Personally... I think I woulda knee capped 'em. Best of both worlds. You stop 'em and they live to learn a valuable lesson about cause and effect (crime and punishment).

[edit on 1-12-2007 by BitRaiser]

Even if he didn't fear for his life, it was a legal action defending his neighbor's property...

Good shooting. Just the fact that these two would break into homes in broad daylight is just practically putting your life on the line. The man wasn't just defending his neighbors, he was defending his neighborhood. What if these guys came back with their crowbar? He also waited for police as long as he possibly could.

Texas is great. He will be praised, not jailed.

Despite popular belief law enforcement officers and judges in Texas are capable of executing the law.

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by discomfit]

Originally posted by BitRaiser


His comment before stepping out amounts to premeditation. He planned on killing these two and then did. That perty much tanks any claim of "self defense". In fact, it's not a big legal leap to make that grounds for murder charges. If you plan to kill someone, then do it, it's murder. Kinda cut and dried.

I fear that statement is probably right. Will have to wait to see how it is played out.

Personally... I think I woulda knee capped 'em. Best of both worlds. You stop 'em and they live to learn a valuable lesson about cause and effect (crime and punishment).

That would be a bad idea. So long as the two crooks are alive, and injured, they would have legal action. It is much better for the man protecting his neighbors property to have killed them. Much less messy in civil Court.
I personally am glad he did this. Two less crooks off the street. No trial necessary. I don't know what will happen to the man who did it. But I don't think I could convict him.

Originally posted by discomfit
Despite popular belief law enforcement officers and judges in Texas are capable of executing the law.

Discomfit
thanks for posting. That does make it look like the man acted with in the law when he shot them.

reply to post by discomfit


It's the law!

If he "knee-capped" then he'd be sued by the perps, right?

Don't mess with Texas!

That is how it works in Colorado with the "Make My Day Law". If you are going to shoot somebody though, you better make sure you kill them. Otherwise you will be sued for everything. So don't knee cap them.

Texas law is different than most places - they probably won't do anything to the guy and he'll get praise as a hero.

One of my buddies when he was a teenager went into someone's house and though he didn't steal anything, I'd have hated it if he had been killed leaving because some neighbor thought it was ok to kill an intruder leaving someone else's house. How did the guy know they were burglars and not the neighbor's kinfolk borrowing their TV?

OTOH, burglars and home invasions were not prevalent back then as they are now - though news is better so maybe they were under reported?

I know we sometimes slept with the back door open (screen was latched) and didn't always even lock the car - much of the time people left the keys in the ignition to run in and shop.

Now I won't even chain my bike to the pole to go into 7-11 and get a gingerale. I'd be worried it would be gone or vandalized if I left it for even a minute. People drive by in a van with some mini-bolt cutters and your stuff is gone in 20 seconds.

Burglars in Texas know they can be shot. So I'd say the guy was more right than wrong.

2 cents.

edit: To the poster above: if killed, can't the perp's relatives sue you in their behalf?



[edit on 1-12-2007 by Badge01]

Discomfit, excellent, star! If it were me in Texas, I would have just taken out the knees, but I'm sure this will serve as a good reminder to those strolling into neighborhoods to steal, you will get shot. I can't see anything wrong with shooting them, but killing them for stealing is a bit harsh.

None of us here know the events that transpired after he confronted the suspected burglars. So, before you all put this man on trial, take a step back and wait for the official report to come out before demonizing anybody. Personally, if I were put in a similar situation, I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing. Direct action with criminals seems to be the only deterrent, seeing as how the police are a "reactive" form, instead of an immediate one. We've become too reliant on our respective authorities and hold next to none as far as holding responsibility over ourselves and our neighbors. I am my brothers keeper, and would stick my neck out on the line for the safety and sanctity of my community from violent or potentially violent criminals.

Originally posted by -Reason-
That is how it works in Colorado with the "Make My Day Law".

That not how I remember the make my day law works in Co. The intruder has to have entered for an unknown reason. It this case described above it would not have applied as it was described. And how the make my day law was described to me.

Originally posted by goosdawg
reply to post by discomfit

 

It's the law!

If he "knee-capped" then he'd be sued by the perps, right?

The Texas governor in September signed the "castle' law which now prevents these people from suing in civil court after getting shot during the commission of a crime if the shooting was justified.

Originally posted by Badge01
... How did the guy know they were burglars and not the neighbor's kinfolk borrowing their TV?

If the kin folk come by to borrow something, I stress using the door and please don't break out the windows. That's where the 'breaking' part of 'breaking and entering' comes in.

I kow this guy will not get in any trouble since he acted within the law. Stopping crime is part of living in the US, especially Texas. He saw a crime in progress and he acted upon it.

I think this will send out a signal to all the potential or current criminals out there. Try to steal my or my neigbors property and use of deadly force is authorized.

Thanks for posting that info since it makes me feel much better about the state I currently live in.

Originally posted by Badge01


I know we sometimes slept with the back door open (screen was latched) and didn't always even lock the car - much of the time people left the keys in the ignition to run in and shop.





[edit on 1-12-2007 by Badge01]

In this 1/2 mile to nearest neighbor Texas community most leave their doors unlocked. After living in Colorado Springs for years I didn't notice it until now, how comfortable I am not having to worry about burglars and street corner dealers. People here look out for one another, and would waste little time in a decision to use deadly force. If anyone is to be sued it should be the family of the perpetrators for their apparent failure to raise a decent citizen and wasting the victims time having to deal with this rift raft.

Great JOB to a fella Texan.

So I suppose all you bloodlusting right wingers would say it is just fine to EXECUTE burglars? Let's see...if a burglar gets caught why not just execute them before the police arrive? If the burglar goes to court and is found guilty of stealing then just put him in the electric chair..right? You MUST think the death penalty is Ok for stealing...this mad dog killer decided to murder two human beings and found the perfect opportunity to do so. The 9-11 operator told him NOt to go outside but this murderer was having none of that!! He wanted to KILL!!

Then, he killed..and now has to live with himself....but that souldn't be too hard as he has no sould and no conscience...murder plain and simple. Just because a person has the EXCUSE does NOT mean they have the RIGHT. It was WRONG to execute two men for petty thievery. I hope that this guy gets prison time..and has to spend it with a bunch of convicted burglars!!

That was premeditated murder,what kind of low life scum would shoot someone for taking property,I know Texas is has some weird laws but if they condone out right murder there whats world comming to,if he doesn't get charged not that I have a high regard for Texas,will lower my opinion of it

Well, I would fully support him if they broke into his house and he dropped them like flies.



He couldve probably just held them at gun point, or shot them in the leg or something non fatal...


I do not have any remorse for the burglars though, it comes with the territory.