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British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

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posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by kdubs
 



Originally posted by kdubs
I remember some quote a guy had "any truth that can't withstand scrutiny, is no truth at all". Are they that insecure about this character that any criticism is a threat their religions existence?

Good post, except for the profanity.


This of course is the crux of the problem. Islam must stay very rigid if it is to survive; it cannot withstand the antiseptic of sunlight. It is a religion of fear. Fear of the punishment that follows the inadvertent breaking of one of the rigid "rules" that are, by convenience, open to interpretation.




posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
What would happen if a Muslim guy stood in the middle of NYC, shouted "allah akbar" and set a US flag on fire?

Its kind of a rhetorical question, because I know that he would probably be surrounded by a very angry mob, some of whom would want to kill him - and please don't tell me thats the case, there are numerous posts on ATS where people say they would react violently to seeing such a thing.

Providing the police got there before he was lynched, they would arrest and incarcerate him.

So, hes come to the US, exercised his freedom of speech within what he thought were the laws of the country and suddenly he's in jail. He might get charged with a public order offence, be bailed or shipped out of the country. (He might even be charged under some terrorism law and end up in Gitmo, but thats a different story.)

This womans in the same boat. The authorities got to her before the mob did. She is incarcerated but unharmed. Chances are the Sudanese Authorities will let her go untouched, with a warning. If she has any brains she'll apologise, come home to the UK and leave it at that.

And as for those who wish to tar all Islamic's with the same brush, have a look at the comments here

Sudan teddy insult teacher: Readers' views

Most of the people quoted are Islamic. Most agree that its a stupid incident and it should never have happened. We all know that's the case (although as I said earlier, she should have known better). Some disagree with that and put their viewpoints across in a civilised manner.



with all the liberal activists roaming the streets of new york, i'd imagine a hotline call to the aclu would take place and this excersizer of free speech would be protected and exalted by the very people his culture would be. without ceremony.

new york isnt exactly known as a conservative hotbed.

the same people who cried 'why didnt you do anything' when 9/11 occurred are the same ones crying 'hey, you cant do that' when the government tries to prevent the next attack. if that individual had any connections to known terror groups he should be deported and rightly so.

those people in the article is sensible, no said muslims can't be sensible. its their religion and its more enthusiastic keepers of the faith that is the problem. they're the ones enforcing the laws and advancing the cause through brutality and terror.

Islam Vs. Women: Where are the Feminists?
(WebCommentary)
Islam respects women, as long as they respect their inferior status.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by avingard
 


Yes we can be outraged and can complain and post at will about it because in our nation this is allowed and encouraged.

But in the middle east, is their laws, their religion their culture and their believes.

And they happen to be different than ours.

You can no change a nations hundreds of years of indoctrination the same way that you can not make America give away Christianity.

It has to be done from within the nation and within the population.

We need to stop sensationalizing everything that is coming out of the middle east like is a terrorist attack on the making when it comes to how they used the laws in their nation.

Changes only comes willingly not forced.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by dawnstar
just a dumb question.....
why is it wrong to name a teddy bear mohammed, but not people...


Without moving from your keyboard you could have found the answer, but hey, as you are lazy;

What can't be named Muhammad



Gill Lusk, the associate editor of Africa Confidential and a specialist on Sudan, says the incident will have offended many in the country. As Sudan is a place where religion is never mocked or satirised, it's "unthinkable" that a toy or pet could be given a religious name.



"The issue has been a vexed one for Muslims through the ages. Some believe that the name can only be given to boys - to give it to an object is idolatry. Others say that pets and toys can bear the name. "

"Millions of Muslim children in Muslim nations give their dolls, pets and teddies Muslim names of the Prophet and his mother, daughters and wives."

lets not forget, the children named the teddy bear, not her. only the parents of one child were offended and they are the ones who contacted the authorities, and well, they had to do something about it. now the education of the children is sacrificed upon the altar of ridiculousness.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by kdubs
o.k., thats it. I've had enough of people saying oh poor muslims, don't judge all of them just from a few radicals. Well its become apparent that there's more than a few radicals because I hear things like this every other week. every other week its something else where they are so offended about something that someone has to die or be injured. How is their prophet above any criticism? I remember some quote a guy had "any truth that can't withstand scrutiny, is no truth at all". Are they that insecure about this character that any criticism is a threat their religions existence? The 1 billion plus muslims in this world need to grow the # up, because I for one feel the world isn't big enough for the both of us. Imagine how #ing stupid they're going to feel when religion itself is disproved by the existence of E.T.'s. I hope they sh1t their prayer rugs






This year Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.
Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10
countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by planetfall
 


Yes they do find time to work in their noble prizes awards after they attacked Lebanon last year.

Lets pray that they only do that to muslin nations every other year.


Oh, I forgot Palestine, my bad.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by planetfall
 


Yes they do find time to work in their noble prizes awards after they attacked Lebanon last year.

Lets pray that they only do that to muslin nations every other year.


Oh, I forgot Palestine, my bad.


you forgot more than that, conveniently:


The conflict began when Hezbollah militants fired rockets at Israeli border towns as a diversion for an anti-tank missile attack on two armored Humvees patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence.[21] Of the seven Israeli soldiers in the two jeeps, two were wounded, three were killed, and two were kidnaped and taken to Lebanon.[21] Five more were killed in a failed Israeli rescue attempt. Israel responded with massive airstrikes and artillery fire on targets in Lebanon, which damaged Lebanese civilian infrastructure, including Beirut's Rafic Hariri International Airport which Israel said Hezbollah used to import weapons, an air and naval blockade,[22] and a ground invasion of southern Lebanon. Hezbollah then launched more rockets into northern Israel and engaged the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in guerrilla warfare from hardened positions.[23]



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall
Originally posted by neformore
What would happen if a Muslim guy stood in the middle of NYC, shouted "allah akbar" and set a US flag on fire?



Well I guess we know what would happen, but whats really worrying is how much people care about their flags. Patriotism is not a good thing, The self-determination of the nations of the world is what causes war. Delusions of separation and such. I wouldnt care if a satanist burnt a bible in front of me, I wouldnt care if a muslim burnt my flag or any other flag for that matter. Its more worrying that people have been so brainwashed that someone burning a piece of cloth angers them enough to want to kill.
Does no-one else feel this way ?? - I feel like im taking crazy pills!



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by planetfall
 


No matter how well you presented it was nothing more than an overkill and the destruction of another nation that happen to be muslin, but hey we did the same to Afghanistan and Iraq so what an example. right?

But that is ok our nation also works on Nobel prizes while at war.


Acutally we work fo rpeace.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by mortalengine

Originally posted by planetfall
Originally posted by neformore
What would happen if a Muslim guy stood in the middle of NYC, shouted "allah akbar" and set a US flag on fire?



Well I guess we know what would happen, but whats really worrying is how much people care about their flags. Patriotism is not a good thing, The self-determination of the nations of the world is what causes war. Delusions of separation and such. I wouldnt care if a satanist burnt a bible in front of me, I wouldnt care if a muslim burnt my flag or any other flag for that matter. Its more worrying that people have been so brainwashed that someone burning a piece of cloth angers them enough to want to kill.
Does no-one else feel this way ?? - I feel like im taking crazy pills!


well, its the symbolism, humans are very big on that.

for someone who comes from arguably the most repressive and brutal culture to come here where countless gallons of blood has been spilled for the freedom and safety of our citizens, under that very flag would be too much for some people, and actually delight many of our own citizens here.

its not what you say, its the way that you say, perhaps?

still, i know what our flag means to me and its not diminished by some savage attempting to offend.

burn all you like, but i wonder if any environmental types will complain about the carbon emissions from flag burning?

i bet not.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by planetfall
 


No matter how well you presented it was nothing more than an overkill and the destruction of another nation that happen to be muslin, but hey we did the same to Afghanistan and Iraq so what an example. right?

But that is ok our nation also works on Nobel prizes while at war.


Acutally we work fo rpeace.


for someone who claims scholarly status, it seems a lot of knowledge escapes your notice.

when threatened and attacked a response is necessary, its okay to fight back, in fact survival has always demanded it. you're likely one who accepts natural selection and evolution, eh? well, those principles still apply to contemporary humans.

war wouldnt be necessary if it werent for the bad guys doing bad things.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by mortalengine
Well I guess we know what would happen, but whats really worrying is how much people care about their flags. Patriotism is not a good thing, The self-determination of the nations of the world is what causes war. Delusions of separation and such.


Finally, an absolute truth in an awful hate-filled thread. You, sir, deserve a round of applause from the mods who have so far vacated this thread.

I posted this link on a thread in BTS, and I will repost it again here because I think it might interest you (and hopefully others), a scientific paper on human psychology:
Why We Hate You: The Passions of National Identity and Ethnic Violence


Originally posted by mortalengine
Does no-one else feel this way ?? - I feel like im taking crazy pills!


I absolutely feel you. We're both taking crazy pills I guess.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by planetfall
 


Actually everybody is fighting an enemy we fight what we call enemies and become the enemies of the people we fight.

But at the same time we all fall for the same rhetoric.

Is who we believe is the one with the right to be righteous.
because nobody wants to compromise and make peace, we just work for it and win Nobel prizes.


Yes I been sarcastic.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Finally, an absolute truth in an awful hate-filled thread. You, sir, deserve a round of applause from the mods who have so far vacated this thread.



could you point out examples of hate in this "hate" filled thread? i havent really noticed any and have been following it closely.

lets remember, valid criticism is not hate. if you let a lion into your home, dont be surprised if your killed and eaten. knowing this is not hate, its awareness of the beasts nature. no one hates the lion by pointing out its tendencies and natural behaviour.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by planetfall
 


Actually everybody is fighting an enemy we fight what we call enemies and become the enemies of the people we fight.

But at the same time we all fall for the same rhetoric.

Is who we believe is the one with the right to be righteous.
because nobody wants to compromise and make peace, we just work for it and win Nobel prizes.


Yes I been sarcastic.


i'm sorry, i couldnt follow any of this, which is a pity, as i'm a connoisseur of sarcasm, i hate to miss out on any.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 09:42 AM
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A British teacher has been charged with inciting hatred, insulting religion and showing contempt of religious beliefs after her class named a teddy bear Mohammad, state media said on Wednesday.

"Khartoum north prosecution unit has completed its investigation and has charged the Briton Gillian (Gibbons) under Article 125 of the criminal code," SUNA said quoting a senior Justice Ministry official.

It added the file would go before court on Thursday.


www.msnbc.msn.com...

I hope that the international community says something about this. Think about it: if America were doing this, everyone would be up in arms. I find it hypocritical that we as a people pick and choose so discriminately what angers us and what doesn't.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Togetic

A British teacher has been charged with inciting hatred, insulting religion and showing contempt of religious beliefs after her class named a teddy bear Mohammad, state media said on Wednesday.

"Khartoum north prosecution unit has completed its investigation and has charged the Briton Gillian (Gibbons) under Article 125 of the criminal code," SUNA said quoting a senior Justice Ministry official.

It added the file would go before court on Thursday.


www.msnbc.msn.com...


outrageous, but not surprising. she is clearly innocent of these comical charges, the whole thing is indicative of how far their .s are up their own collective bottoms.

they simply dont think the way we do, western civilization has an entirely different set of values, for better or worse, certainly not perfect.

but this? its hard to put in words.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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A complete joke and one I am not that surprised about. I am a little surprised however in that I bought into what the Sudanese embassy said yesterday -

www.msnbc.msn.com...

On Tuesday, a Sudanese embassy spokesman in London had indicated Gibbons might soon be freed.

"The police is bound to investigate," embassy spokesman Khalid al-Mubarak told British Broadcasting Corp. radio. "I am pretty certain that this minute incident will be clarified very quickly and this teacher who has been helping us with the teaching of children will be safe and will be cleared."


So I think what they say publically means less than nothing as of now



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 10:50 AM
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does anyone else find it funny that with all the recent clashing and rioting in france, the media has failed to mention that the offenders are, thats right, you guessed it, muslim?


Psst! The French Rioters Are Muslim


Reuters:
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AtXQx2YPRESyJiN3YWBltJGs0NUE

AFP:
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AunvOBDiKbWoOnEaC.b9bRWs0NUE

Christian Science Monitor :
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AqgT8pIgYhZbjRhEPrvWgcis0NUE

Associated Press:
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AnjkLs5MAUBybvpVVolmFQhw24cA

BBC:
news.bbc.co.uk...



not one use of the 'M' word, i guess terrorism does work!

they get their way via fear. and look who is caving in?

our stalwart media...



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 10:51 AM
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I value and respect the Faiths of the world as I understand them, and I can see where the Islamic culture would hold in such high esteem their Prophet's name that it could not be associated with frivolity of any sort, and such looseness could not, therefore, be allowed into the religious experience. That makes sense to me in a structural sense.

What I question is the lack of mercy, the lack of consideration that the act was not done in malice (it doesn't appear) but in love, as part of developing the climate of the educational environment with her students. Neither did it appear that this occurrence was some public statement of religious defiance. She is a teacher, and it appears that she is the only teacher in the vicinity if the school is now temporarily closed. For her to have been there this long suggests to me that the community was pleased with her work, and her nurturing of the children. This indicates an attitude and spirit of love and support for progress on her part to me.

So what is this business that no mistakes may be committed by a flawed human being? Is there no slap on the wrist for a first offense, then a flogging for the next if it happens again? Reminds me of a Star Trek:TNG episode where Wesley Crusher was scheduled for execution on an alien planet because he had strayed from a sidewalk and stepped onto the grass, an offense punishable by death on that world.

Thank God for Picard


Even yet, tho, the faint cry of "agenda" whispers in the wind as we in the civilized West are told to contemplate even further how extreme and unreasonable those Islamic radicals are . . .



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