British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
It doesn't feel right make a joke of this.

No, just the quote about the little boy shyly speaking, barely raising above a whisper. Sounds like Mr. Rogers wrote it.

It's a media play on your emotions, that's it.

Peace

Oh I never thought of that.

I don't think this has to do with blaming another religion, every religion has done something bad yes? but the current topic is about the muslims(lowercase). so would it be correct for them to punish her for naming the bear just because the other religions have screwed up before?

No, it does not make sense, i think its because they want something to moan about because thats all society is now, just people who get offended over every little thing and have to complain or punish people for the silliest of crap.

So just because christians, catholics and everyone else have done stupid things in the name of their religion gives the muslims justification to do this?

Originally posted by planetfall

Originally posted by jfj123
It seems most religions have had these problems. Radical control freaks bent on imposing their wills on others, take a religion and twist it and use it to control people. It never ends well.
The Salem Witch Trials were a good example. or The Inquisition

bad, bad examples, lets look at the numbers, shall we?:



More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

www.crisismagazine.com...



19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...



More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

cain.ulst.ac.uk...



Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

www.law.umkc.edu...



How many people died as a result of the Salem Witch trials?

Nineteen people were hanged, one person was pressed to death, and as many as thirteen people may have died in prison. See the victims page for a list of the dead.

www.salemwitchtrials.com...

Hardly compares at all, does it?

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Actually they're fine examples. Whether we're talking about 1 person or 1,000,000 is irrelevant. I'm not running a score board. I'm just citing examples of incidents where radical religion caused problems. Sorry you missed that meaning in my post.

Hi There,

I want to bring the point up once more that I raised earlier on the thread, that this sort of vengeful display of intolerance by a religion (or any religion) should not be tolerated at all. We should not give it respectability through tolerance of religion's more moderate aspects...a line has to been drawn; furthermore, if we draw that line, we had better make sure we fully comprehend the consequences in doing so.

To my non-Islamic mind, I feel if it were possible to take away 'Sharia Law' from the Islamic creed (which it certainly isn't), Islam would take on a far more benevolent face, because then, the Islamic 'fundamentalists' would not be able to twist the creed to their agenda...which in their words is the total Islamisation of the world.

Sharia law has no set codified laws, so this means the ideology is open to interpretation and adaptation. It is a system of creedful practice based on the Qu'ran to guide the believer through their Islamic life. Like a number of other religions it professes to be a religion of peace and love, but also, like some other religions, it has a side to it which unfortunately negates its peaceful and loving nature so contrastingly, that witnesses (ie, non-Islamic witnesses) are shocked into criticism of it...and to be honest, rightly so. This contrasting aspect is a 'literal' translation of a number of elements found in the Qu'ran, but it is not the only religion in which this extreme translation of sacred texts occur. There are Christians (fundamentalists) whom equally take a 'literal' view of the Bible, and are really the counterparts to Islamic fundamentalists. They each are the 'negatives' orbiting the 'positives' of their respective faiths, and of course, like charges repel each other. Equally so, the 'positives', too, but in a more respectful manner. Through their positives, each religion can tolerate one another, but alas, buzzing around them with indignant hate are the negatives, seeking to undermine or destroy any form of mutual toleration. Nowhere else is this more evident than in Jerusalem, where religious intoleration is the real practice of the many religious groups visiting their respective holy shrines in that city crucible.

I myself am not religious, I do not have a creed of faith, nor do I subscribe to any particular political ideology...I would not so limit myself to the embracing of others. If there is a tenet that I could use to describe what I prefer to hold to, then it would be the dictum that the subject of my avatar stated in his book "The Rights of Man"

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

Thomas Paine 1737 - 1809.

From this, I am free to follow my own code, my ethics founded in the use of the word 'good', and thus in some small way, I always seek to leave a person in a better position than whence they first met me. Following this tenet has on a number of occasions been to my detriment, wherein others have taken advantage of me through my trust, but nevertheless, the point of holding to this tenet is about one's own personal perception of one's self. I cannot change the world, but I do affect the parts of it in my local and immediate environ (as each and everyone of you do, too, in yours), and for me to be happy, that little area has to be peaceful or joyous...on that issue I can do something about...and again, so can each of you.

If I gave toleration to a side of any religion (or politic) that is both hateful and harmful to others, I would be nullifying that side of the same religion (or politic) that is not hateful and harmful to others; I would in fact be a hypocrite, especially to myself. In the end, what is important to me (and hopefully to each of you) is not the response you receive from others, but the response you give them, for it is that which paints the portrait which others see you by.

There are always two sides to any religion, just ensure that the one you do tolerate matches that of your own conscience...you can do no more than that. There is where you draw the line...

Best wishes

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by avingard

 

Arab countries are not like western or more open society ones, when my husband was in the middle east in Saudi Arabia he had to make sure that he understood and respected their laws.

...

This is one of the problems that the western have with middle eastern nations, that our western mentality wants to make everything fit one size.
[edit on 26-11-2007 by marg6043]

It's not a flaw in Western society or a lack of understanding that makes people outraged about this. They're outraged because it is wrong. If you went over to someone's house and made some small slight and they tried to BEAT you for it, would you let them? I'm guessing you'd be pretty ticked off. By your argument (in the above and previous posts in this thread) you would just let them do whatever they wanted because you're in their house so you play by their rules.

I agree, if you are a guest you respect your hosts custom's, to a point. The woman getting beat for letting the kids name a bear Muhammad is way across the line. By that standard there are a few hundred thousand parents that need to be beat for naming their kids Muhammad.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by planetfall
i am generalising, unfairly? not really.

i mean all islam culture in general.

Thank you. I believe you've just invalidated your arguments all together. You DO know that the Egyptian culture predates Islam, right? Be careful when you paint with a broad brush. You're apt to get paint on yourself.

i didnt say egyptian culture, i specifically said islamic culture. it looks like the muslims there exhibit the common traits i refer to:

Egyptian terrorists

this brush i use is perfectly suited for the task at hand.



[edit on 27-11-2007 by planetfall]

Originally posted by Symantic
I don't think this has to do with blaming another religion, every religion has done something bad yes? but the current topic is about the muslims(lowercase). so would it be correct for them to punish her for naming the bear just because the other religions have screwed up before?

No, it does not make sense, i think its because they want something to moan about because thats all society is now, just people who get offended over every little thing and have to complain or punish people for the silliest of crap.

So just because christians, catholics and everyone else have done stupid things in the name of their religion gives the muslims justification to do this?

no, they do not need justification other than allahs will. allah demands this be a muslim world, infidels must be converted or killed. wheres the confusion here?

terrorists are simply following allahs demands, in their eyes they are doing good. the dupes blowing themselves up have no idea how they're being manipulated for political gain. they think they're getting 72 underage girlies when they get to heaven.

their religion encourages/demands action be taken. that action is your conversion or death. its bad from our perspective, but from a true child of allah, it is divine.

no other religion encourages violence and death so clearly and repeatedly. indivisual whackos may interpret a passage or two, but the koran and the hadith is chock full of very clear commands.

Violence in the Bible - Is it really the same?

it seems even the muslims right here in my very backyard are exhibiting some familiar behaviour:

Columbus Al-Qaeda cell member Nuradin Abdi sentenced to 10 years

lets tolerate this religion even more, until they're all living next door to us, ready to act on allah's will, how progressive of this country, eh?

i'm sure everything will be just fine.

Hmmm... the whole thread is gone to discussion of muslims being evil and barbaric.

i didnt go through all the page of dicussion only going to page 5 but i have to agree majority of muslims are pretty violent and barbaric. I live in australia and i've seen large numbers of muslims, i hear muslims say "All muslims are brothers so we dont hurt eachother" haha... but that dosnt apply to the islamic extremist blowing up innocent muslims in the streets everyday. Most muslims i've encountered have hair jelled up and have a "wanna fight" attitude, they show no respect for non muslims... spitting everywhere for no reason. Talking about that all Religion committed terrible acts, yes it is true but all of them have stopped years ago while Islam continue this. No longer does Christianity burn u for denying the bible or talking belasphemy. but Muslims still commit these violent acts against all people who they think insulted their religeon. Its the truth, most muslims dont have repect for people other then their kind. few months ago when i saw a thread on ATS "australia to put all muslims in camps" my reaction of a sigh of relief. did i tell ya that schools in australia with a larger amount of muslims have a higher percentage of violent acts ? Granville boys high any one ? heres a link to the news and i live pretty close to Granville boys high. News link

he video, which glorifies gang rapist Bilal Skaf and boasts about the Cronulla revenge attacks, has been linked to students at Granville Boys High in New South Wales.

Another school around my area is Cumberland high, again mostly attended my lebanese and middle eastern people, in the last 12 months their has been numerous school brawls the most notable one is the WOG vs Azn, the aftermath put the police involved. In australia the term WOG usually applies to young middle eastern

heres the article ABC article

now on to another case where middle east people is cronulla riot. it is quite a well known case involving lebanese and middle eastern youths.

wiki article is here cronulla riot

Ok.....I just named my kids FFA pig Muhammad.........It can rest it's days out next to my donkey Jesus...........Who cares. What is in a name....NOTHING......Give me a break...Try and lash me and you will eat 230grn JHP rounds at 870fps.

What would happen if a Muslim guy stood in the middle of NYC, shouted "allah akbar" and set a US flag on fire?

Its kind of a rhetorical question, because I know that he would probably be surrounded by a very angry mob, some of whom would want to kill him - and please don't tell me thats the case, there are numerous posts on ATS where people say they would react violently to seeing such a thing.

Providing the police got there before he was lynched, they would arrest and incarcerate him.

So, hes come to the US, exercised his freedom of speech within what he thought were the laws of the country and suddenly he's in jail. He might get charged with a public order offence, be bailed or shipped out of the country. (He might even be charged under some terrorism law and end up in Gitmo, but thats a different story.)

This womans in the same boat. The authorities got to her before the mob did. She is incarcerated but unharmed. Chances are the Sudanese Authorities will let her go untouched, with a warning. If she has any brains she'll apologise, come home to the UK and leave it at that.

And as for those who wish to tar all Islamic's with the same brush, have a look at the comments here

Sudan teddy insult teacher: Readers' views

Most of the people quoted are Islamic. Most agree that its a stupid incident and it should never have happened. We all know that's the case (although as I said earlier, she should have known better). Some disagree with that and put their viewpoints across in a civilised manner.

just a dumb question.....

why is it wrong to name a teddy bear mohammed, but not people...

I mean you name a teddy bear mohammed, and well, it's just gonna sit there and be a teddy bear it's whole life...won't do nothing to exalt mohammed, but well, it ain't gonna do anything to bring shame to the name either...

people are another story...wouldn't it be worse to name your child mohammed, and then have that child grow up to be a sex addicted alchoholic jerk?
seems to me that one person could dishonor the name more than a million teddy bears.

Originally posted by dawnstar
just a dumb question.....
why is it wrong to name a teddy bear mohammed, but not people...

Without moving from your keyboard you could have found the answer, but hey, as you are lazy;

What can't be named Muhammad

Gill Lusk, the associate editor of Africa Confidential and a specialist on Sudan, says the incident will have offended many in the country. As Sudan is a place where religion is never mocked or satirised, it's "unthinkable" that a toy or pet could be given a religious name.

Originally posted by dawnstar
people are another story...wouldn't it be worse to name your child mohammed, and then have that child grow up to be a sex addicted alchoholic jerk?
seems to me that one person could dishonor the name more than a million teddy bears.

I agree with you on this, and so do most people in my family. However the Islamic scholars say it's alright... so it happens anyway. People have expectations. They expect that by giving their child that name, the child will live up to it. It's only human.

o.k., thats it. I've had enough of people saying oh poor muslims, don't judge all of them just from a few radicals. Well its become apparent that there's more than a few radicals because I hear things like this every other week. every other week its something else where they are so offended about something that someone has to die or be injured. How is their prophet above any criticism? I remember some quote a guy had "any truth that can't withstand scrutiny, is no truth at all". Are they that insecure about this character that any criticism is a threat their religions existence? The 1 billion plus muslims in this world need to grow the # up, because I for one feel the world isn't big enough for the both of us. Imagine how #ing stupid they're going to feel when religion itself is disproved by the existence of E.T.'s. I hope they sh1t their prayer rugs

People really need to grow up - These religious babies are stopping the whole world from progressing. Who cares if someone named a teddy Mohammed ? Mohammed was a man, they might as well have named the teddy Moses or Satan or Jesus for all I care. I cant believe in this day and age people are still so darn supersticious and dogmatic.

It annoys me so much, I feel like going to the pet store and buying a mole or something and naming it mohammed, then taking it for long walks around all the major mosques just to annoy people. Whatever it takes to get these religious people to actually wake up and smell the real message all our religious leaders of old were actually trying to get across. Dont get me wrong - I'm not merely attacking Islam, I'm attacking all these dogmatic religions - all the ones that cause people to be automatonic zombies.

I know people say - stop the bashing bla bla - but we've been in war for the past 2000 or so years because of these religions... its time for all this dysfunction to stop. I mean for the sake of sanity, Islam still believes that the power of Allah is in that square structure they all bow down to... the power of GOD is in a box ? ... If God can be contained in a box, we better stop kneeling to pray - cuz we're gonna need a better God.

Christians believe God had to sacrifice his own son to forgive us... I mean please. The worst father in this world wouldnt even do that, yet people believe God did it ? ...

Its interesting... doesnt the Koran say that man shouldnt worship idols ? and that Man shouldnt have any other God other than Allah ? yet they worhsip this Mohammed fellow more than Allah to the point where you cant even name a teddy after him ?
I mean... if this Mohammed character is as holy as they claim he is, wouldnt you think he would have a sense of humour and be an all round good guy ? - He would probably laugh and smile at little children choosing to name the teddy Mohammed. Infact he would probably be very angry with the Muslims who are spreading this hatred and anger.


I mean... I just dont understand.. who would want to go to a heaven where the apparent God of the joint is so steeped in Laws that its more rigid and uncreative than a city bank. Anyone else feel like that ? I read the Koran once, and all I read for about half an hour was Mohammed telling me how to live my life, what to do and what not to do... Seems to ruin the whole point of life and experience.

Originally posted by kdubs
o.k., thats it. I've had enough of people saying oh poor muslims, don't judge all of them just from a few radicals. Well its become apparent that there's more than a few radicals because I hear things like this every other week. every other week its something else where they are so offended about something that someone has to die or be injured. How is their prophet above any criticism? I remember some quote a guy had "any truth that can't withstand scrutiny, is no truth at all". Are they that insecure about this character that any criticism is a threat their religions existence? The 1 billion plus muslims in this world need to grow the # up, because I for one feel the world isn't big enough for the both of us. Imagine how #ing stupid they're going to feel when religion itself is disproved by the existence of E.T.'s. I hope they sh1t their prayer rugs

haha! just read your post after I posted, Kudos dude!

I agree with you on this, and so do most people in my family. However the Islamic scholars say it's alright... so it happens anyway. People have expectations. They expect that by giving their child that name, the child will live up to it. It's only human.

Be that as it may, its the Islamic scholars that scare me. I'd rather take my chances with the mormon, as excruciatingly painful as it might be.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by planetfall

Originally posted by jfj123
It seems most religions have had these problems. Radical control freaks bent on imposing their wills on others, take a religion and twist it and use it to control people. It never ends well.
The Salem Witch Trials were a good example. or The Inquisition

bad, bad examples, lets look at the numbers, shall we?:



More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

www.crisismagazine.com...



19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...



More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

cain.ulst.ac.uk...



Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

www.law.umkc.edu...



How many people died as a result of the Salem Witch trials?

Nineteen people were hanged, one person was pressed to death, and as many as thirteen people may have died in prison. See the victims page for a list of the dead.

www.salemwitchtrials.com...

Hardly compares at all, does it?

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Actually they're fine examples. Whether we're talking about 1 person or 1,000,000 is irrelevant. I'm not running a score board. I'm just citing examples of incidents where radical religion caused problems. Sorry you missed that meaning in my post.

i'm certain the numbers are very relevant, for example:

one small church somewhere in rural america may for some reason cast out a parishoner for some trivial reason, or whatever. theres a religious slight, right? but to compare that with the slaughter of sunnis vs. shiites would be silly. the vast, appaling numbers are what makes the difference here.

mostly because the first thing people do when criticism is leveled at islam is to bring up the inquisition, the witch trials and other dark periods of a rival religion. so, if we are to consider those examples, they deserve closer examination and comparison. and it appears there is no comparison at all.

Originally posted by a-stupid-dvd-case
Hmmm... the whole thread is gone to discussion of muslims being evil and barbaric.

i didnt go through all the page of dicussion only going to page 5 but i have to agree majority of muslims are pretty violent and barbaric. I live in australia and i've seen large numbers of muslims, i hear muslims say "All muslims are brothers so we dont hurt eachother" haha... but that dosnt apply to the islamic extremist blowing up innocent muslims in the streets everyday. Most muslims i've encountered have hair jelled up and have a "wanna fight" attitude, they show no respect for non muslims... spitting everywhere for no reason. Talking about that all Religion committed terrible acts, yes it is true but all of them have stopped years ago while Islam continue this. No longer does Christianity burn u for denying the bible or talking belasphemy. but Muslims still commit these violent acts against all people who they think insulted their religeon. Its the truth, most muslims dont have repect for people other then their kind. few months ago when i saw a thread on ATS "australia to put all muslims in camps" my reaction of a sigh of relief. did i tell ya that schools in australia with a larger amount of muslims have a higher percentage of violent acts ? Granville boys high any one ? heres a link to the news and i live pretty close to Granville boys high. News link

he video, which glorifies gang rapist Bilal Skaf and boasts about the Cronulla revenge attacks, has been linked to students at Granville Boys High in New South Wales.

Another school around my area is Cumberland high, again mostly attended my lebanese and middle eastern people, in the last 12 months their has been numerous school brawls the most notable one is the WOG vs Azn, the aftermath put the police involved. In australia the term WOG usually applies to young middle eastern

heres the article ABC article

now on to another case where middle east people is cronulla riot. it is quite a well known case involving lebanese and middle eastern youths.

wiki article is here cronulla riot

i'm not so sure, they may appear evil to our western sensibilities, but in their own culture, they are heroes living and dying in the service of allah's will.

its not the people, its their religion. islam is not a religion of peace. it is the religion that must be adopted, according to what the prophet claims allah communicated to him, and how to do it is all spelled out very clearly in the latest, widely accepted installment of gods words, the koran.


A Call to Attack Infidels
How telling that the most violent, hateful group in Iraq is also the most religious.