China: Global Warming Not Our Problem

China: Global Warming Not Our Problem

www.foxnews.com

BEIJING — A Chinese official gave the clearest sign yet that Beijing will reject binding caps on greenhouse gas emissions at a global meeting next month, saying Friday developing countries must be allowed to raise emissions to fight poverty.

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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Why Americans are Skeptical of Their Role in Global Warming

This story upholds my view that the US and other western nations are much more environmentally responsible than 3rd world and developing nations. 3rd world nations are more worried about putting food on the table, fighting disease, poverty and overpopulation related problems. Esoteric issues such as GW, habitat distruction, and soiling the environment take a back seat to more everyday problems.

www.foxnews.com
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I still can't say that Global Warming is a man made effect. To me it's been happening long before man arrived and will do so if we are gone. As for China, I guess we did the same thing years ago in American history and the industrial era. We went through the industrial age to get where we are and now China is doing it along with other countries. But I still think global warming is a natural effect of the sun cycles and just where we're at in our journey through space.

oh it will be,they get most of their water from himalayan glacier melt,and they are melting at a great rate.

they will soon over take america as the worlds number one greenhouse gas emitter.its eveyone who has and will contribute to greenhouses gases problem.

take responsibility or cease to exist.

Yeah, it's not like they aren't feeling the effects of it:
Ancient Chinese town on front lines of desertification battle

Ignore at your own peril, China. Meanwhile, tropical countries are expected to receive more rainfall, resulting in frequent flash-floods and mud-slides.

When the lahar flows,
Everything goes.

It is absolutely funny to me that this inflamatory news come out the same day that China awards a French company with contracts for nuclear reactors bypassing U.S. and Russian companies that were pressing hard to get those contracts.

www.iht.com...

China has a plan to have 26 nuclear power plants by 2020 and all this countries are pressing hard to grab a piece of the pie.

[edit on 26-11-2007 by Bunch]

reply to post by Bunch

Hi Bunch,
At least this indicates that China is thinking nuclear, the cleanest fuel in regards to greenhouse gasses. China seems to have no regards for PC so nuclear is ok with them. I remember that France often gets the nuclear reacter contracts as they are competative bidders.

As for China, I guess we did the same thing years ago in American history and the industrial era. We went through the industrial age to get where we are and now China is doing it along with other countries.

reply to post by Solarskye

Hi Solar,
Well, back in the 1800's and 1900's when we were developing we knew little about pollution and greenhouse gasses and their effects. China's development is now and they are ignoring GW, GH gasses and all the rest (like sending us their poisoned pet foods and toxic children's toys). They are being what I would call ecologically, environmentally, socially and otherwise wreckless and belligerant. So far it seems to be working for them!

reply to post by plumranch


That's my line of thought, if they are clearly pursuing cleaner ways to produce energy, why this article comes out?

I also think that the Chinese official has a point too when it comes to the balance between developing nations and green house gases, most of these countries are not to blame for this situation but the "develop" nations that were the ones that cause this mess in the first place want to put restriction on them? Is ridiculous!

We can't expect countries to just stop their paths towards progress specially for something that has not been conclusively proven to even exist.

reply to post by Beachcoma

Yeah, it's not like they aren't feeling the effects of it:

Hi Beach,
You are very right and for anyone who thinks that China's environmental problems are trivial, may I suggest the recent best seller, "Collapse" by Jared Diamond, and his section on China. Not a pretty picture. They seem to have few controls, they are developing at an exponential rate, their government seems mindless about the consequences and the world is doing nothing about it!

Conclusion: If you are the biggest BULLY, you succeed.

Originally posted by plumranch
This story upholds my view that the US and other western nations are much more environmentally responsible than 3rd world and developing nations.

Yeees.

Thats why the US ratified the Kyoto Protocol isn't it.

Oh wait....it didn't....

Originally posted by plumranch
Hi Solar,
Well, back in the 1800's and 1900's when we were developing we knew little about pollution and greenhouse gasses and their effects.

Coal and wood burning in European cities ensured that they had far worse pollution back two hundred years ago than we do now. I think the worse soot ( which kills your pretty quickly) pollution in London were around the year 1750 or something? Feel free to go check ...

China's development is now and they are ignoring GW, GH gasses and all the rest (like sending us their poisoned pet foods and toxic children's toys).

Actually western companies decide the standards and construct the plants that many of those products were made in. I do not see why we should hold the Chinese responsible when the western importers refuses to do quality testing or act on their findings. China is NOT ignoring GH or GW but they can only do so much given all the social problems that country faces.

They are being what I would call ecologically, environmentally, socially and otherwise wreckless and belligerant. So far it seems to be working for them!

Actually they seem to be taking the steps to prevent obvious and short term problems ( Chinese logging industry were massively reduced) when the consequences are clear and one can understand how thinking decades ahead might not be very important when you have hundreds of millions of unemployed or under employed.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Yeah, it's not like they aren't feeling the effects of it:

Most of the desertification we see is directly related ( and proved to be so) to over exploitation of water resources and this is something we can change we we stop growing cash crops and concentrate on food!

Ignore at your own peril, China. Meanwhile, tropical countries are expected to receive more rainfall, resulting in frequent flash-floods and mud-slides.

All things that can be prevented when a country 'generates' enough energy and food to educate engineers to create the infrastructure to prevent that type of damage. China and India suffered far more dead due to flooding in past centuries ( and in 31' as many as 3 million died in China due to flooding and after effects) than they are ever likely to again and the days of the floods that kills hundreds of thousands are probably a thing of the past whatever China chooses to do to it's environment. With modern engineering technology and know how people drown due to inaction and lack of preparation and NOT because nature is 'unpredictable' or 'unstoppable'.

When the lahar flows,
Everything goes.

Unless your living in the twentieth or twenty first century and are willing to allocate the funds and labor to prepare for such events. When countries are poor and have millions of unemployed there may not be much reason to get worried if a few hundred thousand gets washed out to sea ( not my sentiments but a apt approximation of capitalist reasoning) given all 'problems' you no longer have to deal with. When countries are sufficiently wealthy they can reclaim the ocean and have entire cities built BELOW sea level. This is a question of organization and energy usage and not one of nature being able to impose itself at will.

Stellar

reply to post by plumranch


well then, what can you say! The united states is 95% undeveloped. So the next time the chicoms open their pie hole about Man made global warming (the great hoax) we can tell them to stick it where the sun doen't shine!

Man may not have anything to do with the climate changing, but common industrial and commercial development still produces a lot of waste.

I for one am not terribly thrilled with all the crap we've pumped into the air and oceans only to learn later that it's causing widespread depopulation and who knows what else. And now China is going through the same rounds except with the knowledge we have today. Disregard for that knowledge is unlikely to end well.

I don't care too much about their gas emissions. They're smart enough to realize that buying a bunch of "carbon offset" trees somewhere really doesn't do anything except make someone else money. But if their emissions correlates to truly destructive practices, there is a problem.

well the china gov. like most, are good at denile...& crap....any idiot knows it effects all........but what is causing it?....some scientists say 'us'...some say it doesn't even exist, all part of ever changing weather...others say 'cycle'....or 'SUN'....(could be getting bigger....bigger = closer/hotter)....fits in with other planets also getting warmer....do they really give a stuff?....well not for many years...but now...maybe they worked out an angle...maybe this GW wagon benefits the NUKE industry...benefits 'holding back' the opposition....anyone who dumps 250,000 nagasaki nukes worth of contamination in Iraq, obviously doesn't give a stuff about the Earth...or at least that part....& who is going to attack China....i don't think so......more $ in doing business....all about business....if there is $ in it....they'll do it....landmines...not a problem, how many u want?.....is the world 'progressing', or is it turning the whole place into a mess....poisoned rivers, polluted 'everything'...God knows how many other toxic or hazardus 'goods'....jobs....environments...FOODS....CHEMICALS, are out there....is business destroying the Earth? ....is our modern life style killing us?..........are we really dumb?.................or have we been sucked in big time?...........................GB



[edit on 26-11-2007 by dave7]

reply to post by StellarX


Thank goodness the "voice of reason" has decided to post in this thread...

Thankyou Stellar for posting what most sensible people think about this issue, its a nice breath of fresh air

Rocketsredglow....Your Nationalism a la Nazi Germany does nothing to further the points you make...In fact, in the eyes of a majority of ATS folks, this nationalism means a lot of people simply ignore posts made with your name on them...

Might want to take a different tact if you really want to get your message across to people...Then again, I'd lay odds you're pretty much a troll...

One of the first things Bush did when he was appointed to office was to stay away from the environmental laws.

Second China needs to be stop and deal with or they are going to be such a power that nobody including the mighty America with its allies in Europe be able to control.

China is becoming more dangerous to the worlds stability and US supremacy that Iran, Afghanistan or any other nation in the middle east will ever be.

But one thing US knows for sure, is all about control of who supplies China with oil because they produce none.

I wonder why our nation is just becoming a poppet of China and just sitting there begging for them to keep buying our debt and producing poison for our nation.

I wonder . . . more and more we are going to keep seen the new Chinese stand on US and its defiance.

reply to post by StellarX


In regards to desertification -- you're just looking at the issue from a single perspective. Swapping out cash crops for food won't solve a thing. Why? You're still using the water, no? And more food equals more people in the end, which will result in more water usage anyway.

Pertaining to better technologies -- you need money first to get to that level. Cash crops can supplement this, so it comes back to that. It's all about balance.

On the issue of preventing mudslides -- since you're not from a rainforest/tropical region, I don't think you're much of an authority to say anything about it. When it pours here, it really pours. And these days it rains heavier and more frequently than it used to.

Rainfall in Singapore more than doubled in first 12 days of January

The continuous downpour has unleashed surging flood waters down its nature reserves, causing mudslides at the MacRitchie and Bukit Timah Nature Reserves.

NParks said this was the first time in nearly 15 years that mudslides have occurred at its reserves, affecting paths and routes to the public.

During rainy spells in the past, small-scale mudslides affect only the outskirts of the hills.

On Friday, the sunshine was a welcome sight for park-goers, but many were left disappointed when they had to turn back.

The route they usually took - up the hills of Bukit Timah Nature Reserve - has been cordoned off.

Heavy rains had caused a mudslide, dragging along part of the popular "Tiup-tiup" trail.

And then in December of the same year:
Floods, mudslides belt Singapore

The third-heaviest inundation in the city-state's history was most intense over the northern and central parts of the city-state, where flooding affected at least four locations.

Vehicles were diverted from several traffic junctions rendered impassable by the rising water.

Mudslides carried soil and trees down a slope, covering two cars, parts of a playground and the front yards of several homes.

One of the richest country in the tropical zone with a level of technology at least a decade ahead of it's neighbour to the north -- still not immune to mudslides.

Let's not even talk about other tropical countries...
And no, I'm not scaremongering. Just stating the facts.

reply to post by Rilence


"Voice of reason"?

And you don't think (all) the posts by stellarx don't reek of "nationalism"? The guy is a "homer" for anything related to the old U.S.S.R. (apparently still thinks it exists - but wait, here comes Putin), and here is defending another communist dictatorial regime employing the old "ends justify the means" manifesto. The rest of the world can GTH for all the chinese care.

Yo! Wake up people and quit hammering on the U.S. all the time. Your real problem (china) is sneaking up on you ...

They have a point, legally, global warming really isn't their problem. Don't yell at China, yell at the Kyoto Protocol. According to Kyoto, developing countries are exempt from restrictions on emissions.

The Kyoto Protocol

Wiki on Kyoto Protocol