Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by boosai
Disagree

Fighting a country like Vietnam isnt the same as fighting a country like iraq. They dont have obvious cities which poke out of the desert. You cannot use you blitzrieg tactics by storming the jungle with your tanks.

What was your plan just level the entire country from head to tow killing millions of civilians as you go???

Our job was to stop N. Vietnam was taking over S. Vietnam. That was our first problem. The way to 'sto' a country from invading another is to destroy their ability to fight.

So basically, yeah, bombing the cities is how you do it. Desotroying your enemies cities is not really a new concept in warfare. Hell, we did it in World War II. The modern warfare idea of trying to reduce civilian casualties is abscially a new concept, whereas for most os history armies travelled a nation killing anyone they could find, destroyign a nations ability to fight.

Thye way to defeat the NVA was to bomb Hanoi, so if we wanted to win, that's what we had to do. I know its coldhearted, but so is war.

Keep in mind, the NVA had no qualms about killing civilians either.

Yes I agree in the past armys would kill, loot and rape as they went. Different era of warfare. WWII was a different era of warfare to vietnam.

Do you think the US would of got away with leveling cities of millions of people in Vietnam??? Even if they did do you think whiping out an already stuggling 3rd world country was going to stop communism?? Yes the US would of done well if they destroyed everything they saw and hey they would of done better if they just dropped a few nukes but i cant see that happening by todays standards.

Worked well in theory as a chest beating operation.

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by CyberGhost


but imo the strongest army in the world was german army! WW2, usa, britain and russia were against it! and hardly defeated it!

Nope. Germany was screwed the moment Russia and the US entered the war. Hitler activated Operation Barbarossa (The invasion of Russia) much too early. The Germans had counted 200 infantry divisions when it started. By the end, Russia had amassed up to 500 divisions. Pure numbers defeated Germany.

Nazi Germany's fate was sealed once D-Day succeeded and when Russia caused the German retreat. Except for a slight hope during the Battle of the Bulge, which was Germany's dying gasp for victory, it was an Allied march to Berlin. Granted, it was a bloody march, but there was no stopping the Allied war Machine once it got a foot in Europe.

Germanies fate wasnt secured when Russia won the war it was when Russia turned the tide of the war at the Battle for Stalingrad... the Russians were on the defensive right up untill then... the Germans stretched their resources too much and too far... that and the Russian winter #d them up... and yes the Americans did influence the war greatly... but to the point... no-one is unstoppable

Oh, I wasn't saying the US was unstoppable, just that Germany wasn't either.

Yes, Russia played a big part. However, it was the Allied invasion fo Western Europe that grew vital troops away from Russia. They would likely have still won, it just would have taken much longer.

Originally posted by boosai

Do you think the US would of got away with leveling cities of millions of people in Vietnam??? Even if they did do you think whiping out an already stuggling 3rd world country was going to stop communism?? Yes the US would of done well if they destroyed everything they saw and hey they would of done better if they just dropped a few nukes but i cant see that happening by todays standards.

NV was 3 days away from surrendering. 3 days. They have admitted this several times.

How many more people would have died in three days?

Anyway, in answer to your question, of course we could have gotten away with it. Nobody gave a # about Vietnam as a nation. We were there to stop Communism from spreading, it was political. If we had bombed Vietnam back to the stone age, nobody would have batted an eye, except for the protestors aabck home who saw all Americans as drugged up baby-eating psychos.

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by CyberGhost


but imo the strongest army in the world was german army! WW2, usa, britain and russia were against it! and hardly defeated it!

Nope. Germany was screwed the moment Russia and the US entered the war. Hitler activated Operation Barbarossa (The invasion of Russia) much too early. The Germans had counted 200 infantry divisions when it started. By the end, Russia had amassed up to 500 divisions. Pure numbers defeated Germany.

Nazi Germany's fate was sealed once D-Day succeeded and when Russia caused the German retreat. Except for a slight hope during the Battle of the Bulge, which was Germany's dying gasp for victory, it was an Allied march to Berlin. Granted, it was a bloody march, but there was no stopping the Allied war Machine once it got a foot in Europe.

Wrong. The Germans lost because of their commitment to attack Stalingrad (now Petersburg I believe?), and their lack of planning for a long-term war with Russia. In the case of D-Day, one stupid order lost the war for them, 'Dont wake me up before 11 am'. When D-Day hit the ground running, the general couldnt activate the panzers without Hitler's personal expressed permission, which he couldnt get for another 5-6 hours. If he had gotten the panzers, the D-Day forces would never have made it off the beach. the German's lack of heavy bombers lost the war as well. They were unable to thoroughly destroy significant things.

All powers peak and fall. Rome. Britian. America.
I've spoken to British Government experts who think Russia and China will be the world economies of the future. My father is in the financial sector and he agrees with this idea. The Euro is fast becoming an alternative currency to the US Dollar, some people say this is why the Iraq war was fought.

There was no way Vietnam could have been 'won' by the Americans.
The patriotism of the Vietnamese people would have prevailed. They were commiting women to the frontline, and regular US forces were proving highly ineffecient at killing the guerilla forces.
The US Army was spending $1 million for every vietnamese person it killed.
The war lost support, as Iraq is now.

Originally posted by Amuk
Nothing is unstoppable

I agree with you Amuk.

Look at Rome.

Look at Germany in WW2.

Out,
Russian

Originally posted by browha
There was no way Vietnam could have been 'won' by the Americans.
The patriotism of the Vietnamese people would have prevailed. They were commiting women to the frontline, and regular US forces were proving highly ineffecient at killing the guerilla forces.
The US Army was spending $1 million for every vietnamese person it killed.
The war lost support, as Iraq is now.

Really? So what is going on in Vietnam these days anyone?

Sure you could defeat the U.S. just like any other country. There are ways around even the best strategy and, nothing is unstoppable no matter what kind of jet fighters they have.


Or cut the military from receiving any valuable resources that may fuel the armies.

the US army aint unstopable its just like the new roman army

I think if we all do "our" part it can be unstoppable.

I'm sure that many people think the U.S is unstoppable and yet is penetrable. Yet nobody has botherd to do anything about it lately....and it makes you wonder why. Allies, resources, technology, or something else? What is it that keeps the U.S from being invaded today? That should answer many questions.

Originally posted by Jeffrey
I'm sure that many people think the U.S is unstoppable and yet is penetrable. Yet nobody has botherd to do anything about it lately....and it makes you wonder why. Allies, resources, technology, or something else? What is it that keeps the U.S from being invaded today? That should answer many questions.

Umm...No one is stupid enough to take such a huge risk for nothing, while they could wait for a century and see the U.S. crumble itself from inside, or sooner.

Originally posted by surfup

Originally posted by Jeffrey
I'm sure that many people think the U.S is unstoppable and yet is penetrable. Yet nobody has botherd to do anything about it lately....and it makes you wonder why. Allies, resources, technology, or something else? What is it that keeps the U.S from being invaded today? That should answer many questions.

Umm...No one is stupid enough to take such a huge risk for nothing, while they could wait for a century and see the U.S. crumble itself from inside, or sooner.

Hmmm, I'm so sure that all those countries are gonna sit aound and stare the U.S in the face and hope for it to destroy itself. FAT chance considering that it's always under a new government.

Hmmm, I'm so sure that all those countries are gonna sit aound and stare the U.S in the face and hope for it to destroy itself. FAT chance considering that it's always under a new government.

What other chance do they have with a country with so many reasources?

Yes, it is always under a new gov't, but the new gov't isn't always good. If we get two, two term very BS presidents continously, U.S. is good as nothing.

Nothing last forever. We saw the rise of U.S, and we will see the fall of U.S., it is just a matter of time.

Originally posted by surfup

Hmmm, I'm so sure that all those countries are gonna sit aound and stare the U.S in the face and hope for it to destroy itself. FAT chance considering that it's always under a new government.

What other chance do they have with a country with so many reasources?

Yes, it is always under a new gov't, but the new gov't isn't always good. If we get two, two term very BS presidents continously, U.S. is good as nothing.

Nothing last forever. We saw the rise of U.S, and we will see the fall of U.S., it is just a matter of time.

I totally agree with you Surfup, and yes the U.S will probably "fold in" sooner or later. What I'm tryin to say is, we have many cocky countries in the world including russia which I believe is the U.S greatest threat next to China and N. Korea, and yet they want to say this and that about the U.S and that we have the better jets,nukes,subs,etc. and yet they just sit on their ass' and don't do anything. My question is, why won't they? What risks are involved?

First off im goin to adress the WW2 issue that is goin around. Yes teh German army was buff and was a formitable foe, but on a one on one war against america they were equal. The thing that gave Germany its advantage was teh slow moving tactics of teh rest of Europe. Germany adn its allies were allied at the beggining. The Slow defence that was mad was what gave teh German the advantage. Yes i know thata teh way war was but the statement USA,Russia,and Britian almost best Germany is not true. Germany only had the uper hand because they were dug in and its always harder to defeat teh person who is defending i mean look at the civil war.

Also i feel the American superpower is as near as being unstoppable as any other country has ever been. We have taken a very differnt road then any other super power. WE are not attempting to be outright imperialist. WE do not try to invade our neighbors, establish colonies, or expand our ideals by invading other countries (Iraq maybe but thats another discussion)

Like stated before i know the we dont ahve all our cards on the table. America always have something up its sleave. And that no one act can take down the USA like many people here think the destruction of the USA will not take months or years but it will be in decades. And according to JB1 timeline i doubt we have even hit the highpoint oreven exerted its power against the world like many other superpowers have

"Who is like the Beast and who can fight against it?"

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Actually in recent years the U.S. Armies training has been slacking quite a bit. With exception to Spec Ops and Ranger forces. In fact the Marines have been having to clean up behind the Army in Iraq which isnt a good thing.

True we have funding and technology, but on the ground that only helps. Give a poorly trained soldier a high quality rifle and he wont stand a chance against an enemy (even if that enemy is using older tech) who is experienced and will fight to the death for his cause.

I serve in the USAF, and although our military is very powerful, I believe we can be defeated if hit right. I won't say the way I would see a great attack going, since you never know who may be reading these posts, but feel free to U2U me if you are interested in my way an attack may work out the best.