AA, remember, the world economy depends as much on the US as the US depends on the world.


It is not something they WANT to do, but IF it comes down to us-or-them it is a winning tactic.

We cannot defeat the world because they will defeat us long before we can gain enough control to continue.

And stopping the oil is simple enough.

Look at Iraq. A few pounds of explosives shuts down hundreds of thousands of barrels a day of production when detonated at a pipeline.

The links are too weak, and we are spread out too much.

We NEED the rest of the world to survive ourselves.

"You are with us, or you are against us"

The few friends we have left in the world are bought and paid for as long as the people do not hang them from lamp posts.

After that we are alone, other than maybe Britan, and Australia.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
It is not something they WANT to do, but IF it comes down to us-or-them it is a winning tactic.

A pyrric victory. Cutting your nose to spite your face.

We cannot defeat the world because they will defeat us long before we can gain enough control to continue.

Well, no, we can't defeat the entire world, but there is no reason for the world to declare war on us, ro vice versa.
Anyway, it's not "US and The World" plenty of nations ahte eachother as well as the US. I'd be amazed with the world allyign together to go after one nation that can will lead to a costly, if victorious, war.

And stopping the oil is simple enough.

Look at Iraq. A few pounds of explosives shuts down hundreds of thousands of barrels a day of production when detonated at a pipeline.

They'd be cutting of their own oil if they did that...

No doubt the U.S. is currently unstoppable, but don't forget all of our allies that make that possible.

We control the high ground which is in space today, but there's no doubt China could challenge & defeat us in the near future if they wanted to.

With the way their economy is going they will have the money. Maybe that's why they're getting in to the space race.

[Edited on 8-2-2004 by outsider]

Originally posted by surfup
I doubt China will take over American economy in a couple of decades.

I doubt China will ever take over America's economy, even if it did it will take more than 50 years.

I heard somewhere that if a machine was build that could emit enormous EM radiation, most of U.S. army will be disabled.
With all the soldiers weaponless, an small invading force with weapons could easily take over U.S, not that it is probable.

I'm sure it isn't that easy to wipe out the most powerfull army in the world. If it was that easy to take us out, it would have been done long ago. The United States spends so much money on it's military and defense for a reason, to make sure that little holes like a big EM radiation machine can't wipe us out in one blow. God only knows what kind of technology the U.S. Military has that we don't know about. Sci-fi things that may seem unreal and bogus to us may very well be existing.

I currently, and have always believed that the U.S. is never showing all it's cards.

Us Yanks cannot be beat in a one on one war. No singke nation could take us on.

I heard some talk about dumping all the US Bonds and what not on the open market, and there is a flaw with this - the price paid back would not be full since the bond has not matured. This would make the country that did so just as poor as the US, with the difference being that there is still more money in the US then any other country in the world, by far. So still, the US would be richer. When I spoke of economic war, it is more of a matter of dominating certain markets. The US does this in the middle east with oil because our (along with most modern 1st world nations) economy depends on it.

If China were to try something it would be trying to ally with oil rich nations to LIMIT the suply of oil to the US to gain leverage. I really doubt any country would try anything to provoke the US. As we have learned in the last 100 years, it is generally a bad idea!

I think that the U.S military is unstoppable in terms of their numbers and technological weaponry.

This is one military you don't want to mess with.

But, if they ever use nukes, there will only be a few people around to see just how powerful this military is.

I have heard that China's GDP could reach present US GDP in 15 to 20 years. And when that happens US GDP will be only 2-3 trillion ahead of Chinese one.. so in 25-30 years Chinese could be next biggest super power.

All Empires collapse eventually.

Greece,Rome,and Great Britain.

All Empires go through distinct stages.

1/A defining moment in History when that nation is no longer realistically threatened.

2/A defining moment in History when that nation begins to project it's power abroad in the known world.

3/A moment in History when that nation is at it's height.

4/A defining moment in History when decline has become obvious.

For Great Britain.

1/Battle of Waterloo or defeat of Spanish Armada.

2/Begining of Empire expansion.

3/1870/1880

4/WW1


Throughout History the time span has been fairly consistant.

Notice only 30-40 between height and decline.

Others might argue this but the USA time line might look like this.

1/Independence or Civil War.

2/WW1

3/ ?

4/ ?

The start of the rise is normally marked by great social change.
It's decline is marked by conservatism.

When a nation is at it's height it is easy to see how conservatism takes hold.We all know the saying that if it isn't broken don't try and mend it and so conservatism takes hold easily.However,the world does not stand still and conservatism artificially suspends innovation and ultimately leads to decline.

People of america would have to fight to military, with gurrila war fair. Fight in ther street.

imo us soldiers are too much technology dependant, but i think the us is pretty much unstoppable now!

but imo the strongest army in the world was german army! WW2, usa, britain and russia were against it! and hardly defeated it!

the only way usa can be defeated is if they will defeat themselves and if thier economy collapses! = civil war, seriously usa is like modern roman empire!

it can't be defeated!

I am American. From California, myself. However, I don't want to be another stupid biased-opinion here. Nothing is unstoppable. In fact, we have already been 'defeated' - Vietnam. There goes that undefeated record. Yeah, some patriot biases might say that we backed off for strategic reasons, but lets face it - we pulled out because they were kicking our butts. I mean, look at the facts, its true. They used unconventional methods, traps, acts of "terrorism"

Hypocrits, these "acts of terrorism" that are occuring in Iraq are acts of war. And, as we know, all is fair in love and war. The U.S. needs to find a way to stop these attacks, or at least stop some of them. In Iraq, we are losing 2 - 3 soldiers per day to a 3rd world country, and you call that being a superpower? Yeah..sure...if you say so billy-bob. We should have control already, but we don't. America is not unstoppable, nothing is. Of course, the Mongols were undefeated under Ghengis (sp?) Khan. Until his son took over, they were unstoppable, but still fell eventually. Every 'superpower' does. Yes, the U.S. has some of the best stuff in the world, but unconventional tactics can win, they have, and will, most likely, in the future. I am very proud to say I am a U.S. Citizen, though, because we have some cool stuff coming up, such as the Exo-Skeleton system, allowing humans to exceed normal capabilities (ie: running, jumping, stamina) and the Nano-chip technology suit, which lets the soldier blend in perfectly with the environment while wearing it, because of Nano-technology. All in all, head on, and, if the intel provides decent stuff, the U.S. is, and will be, pretty much unstoppable.

-wD

"in terms of their numbers"
-IMMORTAL

Yeah, numbers is one thing we don't have. The U.S. military is small, for a superpower..I mean..look at China...

-wD

Webdevil you just beat me to the post I was about to make.

Does anyone remember Vietnam. A so called 3rd world country!!!!! How did the un stoppable army go there???

Originally posted by CyberGhost


but imo the strongest army in the world was german army! WW2, usa, britain and russia were against it! and hardly defeated it!

Nope. Germany was screwed the moment Russia and the US entered the war. Hitler activated Operation Barbarossa (The invasion of Russia) much too early. The Germans had counted 200 infantry divisions when it started. By the end, Russia had amassed up to 500 divisions. Pure numbers defeated Germany.

Nazi Germany's fate was sealed once D-Day succeeded and when Russia caused the German retreat. Except for a slight hope during the Battle of the Bulge, which was Germany's dying gasp for victory, it was an Allied march to Berlin. Granted, it was a bloody march, but there was no stopping the Allied war Machine once it got a foot in Europe.

the u.s. military is highly advanced... we have sqauds and platons doing what takes other countries companies to do.....but...when you have only a very limited and highly trained group and you start lossing people..and you will..what happens then???? thousands agants dozens.....might be good for a moive but it wont do when when the enemy has millions to throw at you. The u.s. military reminds me of germany in WWII...very very good at what it does, but there are far to few of them and there is way to much reliance on tech...... the u.s. military...ground force wise ..excles in the desert warefare..but what would happen when engagement distances are messured in a couple hundred yards and not thousands??? are troops a very tough but you can only kill so many before the masses will overcome.......................................

Originally posted by boosai
Webdevil you just beat me to the post I was about to make.

Does anyone remember Vietnam. A so called 3rd world country!!!!! How did the un stoppable army go there???

Politics. Had we not had such internal division, NV would have surrendered. Had we been allowed to do what we do best, which is bomb the hell out fo them six ways to sunday, Vietnam would have been won.

The US was not defeated militarily. It was defeated poltically.

Hanoi was 3 days away from surrendering, until home-side protesting caused bombing to cease. They've admitted it.

[Edited on 11-2-2004 by Esoterica]

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by boosai
Webdevil you just beat me to the post I was about to make.

Does anyone remember Vietnam. A so called 3rd world country!!!!! How did the un stoppable army go there???

Politics. Had we not had such internal division, NV would have surrendered. Had we been allowed to do what we do best, which is bomb the hell out fo them six ways to sunday, Vietnam would have been won.

The US was not defeated militarily. It was defeated poltically.

Hanoi was 3 days away from surrendering, until home-side protesting caused bombing to cease. They've admitted it.

[Edited on 11-2-2004 by Esoterica]

Disagree

Fighting a country like Vietnam isnt the same as fighting a country like iraq. They dont have obvious cities which poke out of the desert. You cannot use you blitzrieg tactics by storming the jungle with your tanks.

What was your plan just level the entire country from head to tow killing millions of civilians as you go???

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by boosai
Webdevil you just beat me to the post I was about to make.

Does anyone remember Vietnam. A so called 3rd world country!!!!! How did the un stoppable army go there???

Politics. Had we not had such internal division, NV would have surrendered. Had we been allowed to do what we do best, which is bomb the hell out fo them six ways to sunday, Vietnam would have been won.

The US was not defeated militarily. It was defeated poltically.

Hanoi was 3 days away from surrendering, until home-side protesting caused bombing to cease. They've admitted it.

[Edited on 11-2-2004 by Esoterica]

I do agree however the US had there hands tied politically and the military werent allowed to do what they do best

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by CyberGhost


but imo the strongest army in the world was german army! WW2, usa, britain and russia were against it! and hardly defeated it!

Nope. Germany was screwed the moment Russia and the US entered the war. Hitler activated Operation Barbarossa (The invasion of Russia) much too early. The Germans had counted 200 infantry divisions when it started. By the end, Russia had amassed up to 500 divisions. Pure numbers defeated Germany.

well that's what i wanted to say! look how many people it need to defeat Germans! how many millions of Russians died and how many millions of Germans? can you image if Germans had the same numbers?

Originally posted by boosai
Disagree

Fighting a country like Vietnam isnt the same as fighting a country like iraq. They dont have obvious cities which poke out of the desert. You cannot use you blitzrieg tactics by storming the jungle with your tanks.

What was your plan just level the entire country from head to tow killing millions of civilians as you go???

Our job was to stop N. Vietnam was taking over S. Vietnam. That was our first problem. The way to 'sto' a country from invading another is to destroy their ability to fight.

So basically, yeah, bombing the cities is how you do it. Desotroying your enemies cities is not really a new concept in warfare. Hell, we did it in World War II. The modern warfare idea of trying to reduce civilian casualties is abscially a new concept, whereas for most os history armies travelled a nation killing anyone they could find, destroyign a nations ability to fight.

Thye way to defeat the NVA was to bomb Hanoi, so if we wanted to win, that's what we had to do. I know its coldhearted, but so is war.

Keep in mind, the NVA had no qualms about killing civilians either.