Why I try to disprove God.

reply to post by blueorder


i'm sorry, but science voids all supernatural explanations to any issue, so creationism isn't an exception

the biblical accountS of genesis do have philosophical meaning, but they don't have any scientific meaning whatsoever.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I think that what we think of as supernatural are really just natural laws at work that science does not YET know about. But science has in no way Voided out god, if anything science has just created way more questions then answers. If the saints are right then god is beyond the manifested world and science will never be able to proove gods existence, or disproove gods existence for that matter. Science explains the outward physical world. Or the mind in third person. It hasnt yet attempted to actually explain the mind in terms of FIRST PERSON experience, Which is what buddhism and various other religions do. Screw scientology i read some of that book .

I believe that once we join 3rd person analysis with first person experience were gonna have one hell of a ride! But just remember that we cant actually invent anything new. All we can do is rearrange whats already there. I used to be an athiest for awhile, but athiesm is so dry and boring, depressing for me. So i read up on all the religious/spiritual books i could find. This included for me the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita (my personal favorite) The bible ( i believe is the most misunderstood) and the Tipitaka (buddhism). What i dont understand is all you on here who call yourself athiests seem to be very ignorant regarding god, all you seem to have heard about in most cases is a warped misunderstood version of the christian god. You should do some research and discover what the word god really implies before you say you dont believe in it. Its not a matter of belief its a matter of knowledge of self and surrender of power.

WAKE UP

unlike naughty little kids...ants are smart...they store up food while the going is good...they are fantastic workers & can lift more weight than we can in relation to body size...they also know how to co-operate & work together far better than we can......but we don't have to be naughty little kids all our lives...we can grow up & be blessed with wisdom...even Einstein was given it because he acknowledged God....most of human science has been 'accidental'...while trying to play God....good science knows that it is always wrong because things change...humans grow & learn....science has continued to prove itself wrong from the start...universe revolving around the Earths Butt...flat earth...if u go any faster than 30mph all the air will get sucked out of ur lungs & u'll suffocate...etc. etc.....the other thing about science is, the ones doing it tend to get what they want or the ones paying for it i should say...& if ur got the $ it will 'prove' anything u like....toobacco industry, global warming/nuke industry, etc. etc......plus if ur working from 'flawed' 'excepted' models to start with...then it really is the blind leading the blind....however humans have still come up with some amazing stuff all the same...LEDs are one of my favorites....then again...wonder how much is alien tech....Stan Meyers hydrogen buggy getting 100mpg on water only (stolen)...still reckon he'd be still alive today if he didn't keep some of it secret...(murdered)....truth is the 'I AM' jesus was talking about is all about humans reaching our full potental...we are gODs with a little 'g'...we were made in His likeness....& we can do greater things than Jesus did....we are only limited by our own BELIEF/MIND.....anything really is possible if we believe 'without any doubt'....thats the tricky bit....if we can't even believe the history of the bible, what hope have we got...still humans put their faith in humans instead of the Perfect One & pay the price...just take a look at the planet today to get an idea of the mess we are in....humans are so heady & self....its just one stuff up after another....turned their back on the best friend we could ever possibly hope to have..................GB

Originally posted by blueorder
Like any sage follower you would not seek a static historical literal meaning of a biblical narrative, you look for it's deep philosophical principle.

If you look deep enough you'll find anything. How is the meaning meant to be kept over long periods of time if it's not meant to be taken literally? No one would know the real meaning. This excuse is used every time science proves part of the bible wrong.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by blueorder

 

i'm sorry, but science voids all supernatural explanations to any issue, so creationism isn't an exception

the biblical accountS of genesis do have philosophical meaning, but they don't have any scientific meaning whatsoever.

It doesn't until you look at other ideas such as we were seeded here by an alien race then the bible would make perfect sense. Unfortunately the more we discover that we evolved on this planet from amino acids etc then the more likely that there is no other intelligent life like us, and the chances of intelligent life that is also space fairing becomes even more extremely remote.

Even with the great odds of a million to one for intelligent life after you only count the suns with a planet(s) that are in the right spot, and then only the ones that have all that is needed for life this would cut out a very big chunk of our galixy.

If we further culled it down to count only the planets that actually get that right chemistry mix to happen to get life, and then lets say one in a million of them would also produce intelligent life would weed out many more planets.

Lastly, to weed out more of that intelligent life that would not be physically capable to evolve into a space faring spices we would quickly run out of suns in our galaxy and have at best a few with the most likely scenario of just us.

So if there is intelligent space faring alien life out there then seeding from some extremely old and vastly superior species would pretty much be the only way to account for it, and then the bible would be Scientifically correct on most accounts.


[edit on 22-11-2007 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero

Even with the great odds of a million to one for intelligent life after you only count the suns with a planet(s) that are in the right spot, and then only the ones that have all that is needed for life this would cut out a very big chunk of our galixy.

Your assuming that we know where intelligent life can exist. We really know very little although we do assume alot.

So if there is intelligent space faring alien life out there then seeding from some extremely old and vastly superior species would pretty much be the only way to account for it, and then the bible would be Scientifically correct on most accounts.

The bible is not a book of science, its a book of philosophy. Duh. And as far as superious aliens seeding planets i dont discount the idea, but if that is true then what does it change really? Nothing really.

The bible is NOT i repeat NOT meant to be taken litterally. You have to possess right discernment to really grasp the deep philosophical meaning behind the words of the bible.

reply to post by AncientVoid

If you look deep enough you'll find anything. How is the meaning meant to be kept over long periods of time if it's not meant to be taken literally? No one would know the real meaning. This excuse is used every time science proves part of the bible wrong.

The bible is not meant to be taken litterally, None of the sacred books meant to be taken litterally, except for the abhidarma of course which is a litteral explanation for experienced reality. If you possess right discernment as in a good knowledge of your own self and truth then you could really grasp the meaning behind the words of the bible. What has happend is christian priests are trained only academically, not through self-realization and meditation. The result of this over the ages has been a diluted teaching only scratching the surface and often distorting the bible's true meaning.

But why does everyone pick on the bible immedaitly? look into the other books, compare them with the bible, and in doing so you can begin to more easily see the truth hidden in each of the books. Why isnt it litterall you might ask, wouldnt it be so much easier to just say it how it is and not cover things up with metaphors and riddles? Well that is a question you will have to research yourself and you will find the answer if you persevere.

Reccomended reading-
The Yoga Of Christ - by Paramahansa Yogananda

WAKE UP

"He chose what the world considered nonsense & foolishness in order to shame the wise, & He chose what the world considers weak, in order to shame the powerful...He chose what the world looks down on & despises & thinks is nothing, in order to destroy what the world thinks is important."....Science changes with the wind, but the history & instructions & love letters from our Dad in the Bible has always been true....the prophesys have & are still coming true...all our anciestor names in there are true....the bible is closed to the world & only opened to the ones Father chooses to have pity on......humility & longing to get to know this great one is what 'may' open it to u........GB

Originally posted by gravytrain
Your assuming that we know where intelligent life can exist. We really know very little although we do assume alot.

yep agree especially when it comes down to religion...

Originally posted by gravytrain
The bible is not a book of science, its a book of philosophy. Duh. And as far as superious aliens seeding planets i dont discount the idea, but if that is true then what does it change really? Nothing really.

Yet it describes the Earth as being flat and being in the centre while everything obits it? So many lives have been lost just by saying the Earth is not at the centre.
Then maybe god is a metaphor is well (for example nature) or hell and heaven but nooo only mention the things which have been disproved wrong that's not meant to be taken literally.

Originally posted by gravytrain
If you possess right discernment as in a good knowledge of your own self and truth then you could really grasp the meaning behind the words of the bible. What has happend is christian priests are trained only academically, not through self-realization and meditation. The result of this over the ages has been a diluted teaching only scratching the surface and often distorting the bible's true meaning.

You think you guys know the real meaning which the person who wrote it wanted to put across? If you count how many things there are it's almost impossible since it's not meant to be taken 'literally'. Those priests sure did a good job not taking Earth in centre of the universe 'literally'...

Excuses Excuses Excuses...

Originally posted by gravytrain
But why does everyone pick on the bible immedaitly? look into the other books, compare them with the bible, and in doing so you can begin to more easily see the truth hidden in each of the books. Why isnt it litterall you might ask, wouldnt it be so much easier to just say it how it is and not cover things up with metaphors and riddles? Well that is a question you will have to research yourself and you will find the answer if you persevere.

Because that's the most popular book and why would i point out the flaws in other books i don't know. Also most people in his forum follow the bible and i haven't seen anyone else coming to my door shoving other books in my face.

Originally posted by gravytrain
The bible is not meant to be taken litterally, None of the sacred books meant to be taken litterally, except for the abhidarma of course which is a litteral explanation for experienced reality. If you possess right discernment as in a good knowledge of your own self and truth then you could really grasp the meaning behind the words of the bible. What has happend is christian priests are trained only academically, not through self-realization and meditation. The result of this over the ages has been a diluted teaching only scratching the surface and often distorting the bible's true meaning.

But why does everyone pick on the bible immedaitly? look into the other books, compare them with the bible, and in doing so you can begin to more easily see the truth hidden in each of the books. Why isnt it litterall you might ask, wouldnt it be so much easier to just say it how it is and not cover things up with metaphors and riddles? Well that is a question you will have to research yourself and you will find the answer if you persevere.

Why do you suggest that I'm picking on the bible?

My point was more alone the lines that a bible story, as example, Adam and Eve could be based on seeding of the plant and in which it would be more factually true than our evolution theory of today.

I’m not suggesting this is the case, but more to just show that science and religion does not need to be completely separate from each other as if there was a giant wall between the two.

I do find how both science and religion can't not see that they can easily be connected and a person (such as myself) can believe in both. Using the Adam and Eve example again, I do not see it in the literal sense that god made man by doing a cheap parlor trick and with his magic wand and Adam and Eve popped into existence.

I do see this as the story of man’s evolution of when man was no longer am innocent animal and finally gain self-awareness, intelligence, and even a soul. Because of this, man could no longer live in the blissful world of ignorance i.e. Garden of Eden.

My other point is that those who see themselves as an atheist who only believe in evolution but also believe that aliens are flying around the universe need to rethink their views for the more accurate the evolution theory is the less likely that there are space faring species out there too.

Believing in aliens might as well be a religion too for it is also based on faith, but at least the traditional religions are not fooling themselves in thinking their faith is not religious in nature.

reply to post by AncientVoid

Yet it describes the Earth as being flat and being in the centre while everything obits it? So many lives have been lost just by saying the Earth is not at the centre.

Where in the bible does it say this? Wasnt it the papacy who said this not the bible?

You think you guys know the real meaning which the person who wrote it wanted to put across? If you count how many things there are it's almost impossible since it's not meant to be taken 'literally'. Those priests sure did a good job not taking Earth in centre of the universe 'literally'...

Im not even a christian so im not "those guys" lol. The bible is a book about this world, maya (devil, delusion) and god (liberation, truth). Just like the world it is going to be hard to figure out, it is going to seemingly contradict itself. For it is explaining reality and reality seemingly contradicts itself when we dont understand it. Just like we are always making new scientific discoveries in the world and changing out theories, so too can the bible be interpreted in many different ways. Only the enlightened men who know the truth of the world through experience can truly appreciate and understand the deep meaning in the bible.

Because that's the most popular book and why would i point out the flaws in other books i don't know. Also most people in his forum follow the bible and i haven't seen anyone else coming to my door shoving other books in my face.

It is the most popular book, thats true. But i just dont understand how you can judge that book without judging and studying the others. Its like someone saying they dont like one boat and there not going to get in it and, NO god forbid there are OTHER boats that you can use to cross the ocean but no youve seen that one boat and ohh my they MUST all be the same!!

Originally posted by gravytrain
reply to post by AncientVoid

 

But why does everyone pick on the bible immedaitly?

I consider myself agnostic.

That said, I believe that the reason that the Bible is referred to so often is that many (if not most) atheist are more anti-religion (specifically anti-Christianity) than they are anti-god.

At least, that has been my experience. I really think that "atheist" is most likely a misnomer.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Great post that really cleared things up for me. I agree with..pretty much everything you said lol. So cheers

Peace.

i'm not 'one of those guys' either....i don't have anything to do with 'humans' religions....not Fathers idea...Lucifers, to stop people reaching their full potential by following Jesus examples (greater things than I)....& taking people 'away' from Father...they follow humans....& i don't call myself a Christain either because that word has been spoilt & corrupted by hypocrites....i am free NOW....before i was lost....but i don't 'run free'....i've been blessed with enough wisdom to listen to our DAD.....His instructions & love letters in NT are the food we need to survive the coming hard testings....& a personnal relationship with that Great One...................the OT is mainly a History lesson........GB

Originally posted by gravytrain
Where in the bible does it say this? Wasnt it the papacy who said this not the bible?

O i forgot it never did just like it never mentioned god... =.=

Originally posted by gravytrain
The bible is a book about this world, maya (devil, delusion) and god (liberation, truth). Just like the world it is going to be hard to figure out, it is going to seemingly contradict itself. For it is explaining reality and reality seemingly contradicts itself when we dont understand it. Just like we are always making new scientific discoveries in the world and changing out theories, so too can the bible be interpreted in many different ways. Only the enlightened men who know the truth of the world through experience can truly appreciate and understand the deep meaning in the bible.

Book about this world? You trying to be funny?
Yes the bible can be interpreted in many ways like everything else, but the only correct interpretation should be the one the composer tries to convey.

Originally posted by gravytrain
It is the most popular book, thats true. But i just dont understand how you can judge that book without judging and studying the others. Its like someone saying they dont like one boat and there not going to get in it and, NO god forbid there are OTHER boats that you can use to cross the ocean but no youve seen that one boat and ohh my they MUST all be the same!!

What does this have to do with your boat example? A boat does not need to be compared to another to see if it'll work on water. Why would i need to compare other books when I'm pointing out the flaws in this one?

So your saying you can't point out the flaws unless you compare it to everything else? Nice logic you got there...

Heaven & hell aren't the same....one sucks & the other is a wonderful place....for many today on this Earth, this is hell....because of their suffering & hard testings....the Bible has been messed with over the years...different (human) interprentations & versions...some even wrote their 'own' bible...but all of these Human religions Lucifers 'trick' to turn people 'AWAY' from Father (LOVE)....people listen too their preacher instead (human following human)...not Father (LOVE)....they are told 'U come to 'MY' church or U'll go to hell'..YUCK...all religions tax free $ making businesses....only Father knows who His real church are...those kids could be anywhere.....however, once u have been blessed with fathers Holy Spirit FREE GIFT....ALL in the Bible will be useful to u & can be used by Father to SPEAK to u...give instructions to u....wonderful 'love' letters from Him in NT....most beautiful books i've ever read....OT part is just mainly History lesson & of our ancestors MISTAKES , so we can LEARN from them....bit of prophecy in there too....but the NT is the new deal....listen to what Jesus had to say.....but before u do that....in order for Father to OPEN ur eyes to the TRUTH & LOVE in there (in spite of the messing)....FIRST u need to get out of the way/pull ur big huge SELF importance head in, & HUMBLE urself before the Creator of ALL, ur DAD (the one u didn't know u had)...& ASK Him to have pity on u & please OPEN ur eyes to the TRUTH in His Holy collection of books (Bible), so u can get to know Him....get to know ur (long lost) Father.....THEN IF He has pity on u, IF u are HONEST & GENUINE in ur SPEAKING (prayer) to Him....u will have ur EYES open & understand the Bible....NOT before.....How can we SEE in the dark without the LIGHT..........GB

reply to post by mattifikation


Doesn't look like this has really been addressed, so here's my two cents.

Religion is a tool, yes. Take it away and guess what; evil men will invent another tool to control the masses. There's nothing you can do about it, short of changing human nature. Atheists blaming war and murder and genocide on Christianity is just a cop-out, humans did these things, there's no way around it.

Look at it this way; how many tools of murder and destruction has science wrought? Guns, chemical warfare, the atom bomb, and far more. These things are designed with the sole purpose of killing other humans, and yet no one (who thinks rationally)denounces science as evil.

People are the problem, and getting rid of religion/disproving the existence of 'God' won't solve anything.

Some interesting points in this thread, nonetheless.

No one can truly understand mans real motives until they look at another human begin and see themselves living within that person.

Good luck.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
So, why just not practice religion? I am not really a practitioner of any religion, but I believe in God.. I really don't understand how you jumped from being against religion to trying to disprove the existence of God. Interesting post, nonetheless.

[edit on 21-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

It's the fact that religion is filled with disinfomation that strikes a cord in people as such and thus the realize religion is false and so they falsely assume, for it is easier to do so then to self search, that all things about God are untrue.

that all things about God are untrue.

.................WOOOOOOH....................ur talkin about someone u don't even know....unless u know REAL HOLY LOVE....that puts others first....that surpasses SELF....ur/our DAD is LOVE.....sin = disobedience to LOVE.........however i agree, that applys to most who talk about Father...(the more u talk about God, the more u 'de-throne' God)....very few have even seen this Great One...Moses got a sneak preview...there is alot of people hung up in the past, in the OT, an eye for an eye crap...they just don't get it...maybe they never reached the NT & heard what Jesus had to say was the new deal...looked at His wonderful examples of how to live & treat eachother...how many put their neighbour first over SELF...how many even know their neighbour...or give a stuff....everything i have told u about our DAD is true....ur talkin about someone i love & know....someone who blesses me big time everyday....not sure who ur God is, but it's not the Creator of ALL...the God of Abraham & Joseph..........GB