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FBI Raids "Liberty Dollar" Company Offices - Confiscates All "Ron Paul Dollars"

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posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 02:36 AM
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Anyone can tell anyone else that some money you print or coins you make is legal -- but until the Courts Decide if it is Legal -- it probably is not. Anyway, you are devaluing the Currency of the United States of America and if you want to go against the Government that Prints the Money and has the Right to Legally being the Country you live in - then go ahead. They probably will conclude that they are the Legal People and all the text in print is not Legal along with your LD and other currency. I have seen actually no other Mint declare that what they were making to sell was Currency to be used because just some people decided it could be. It is not legal, it is hype and again, the same people who probably told them all the fantasy that they wanted to hear at LD does not mean that it is not in their job to then tell someone else what you intend to do - and that is devalue the U.S. dollar which is Legal Tender in the USA and in other Nations at an Exchange Rate which is set up by Governments. I really do not think that you think that you can just make money here in the USA and the Government will let you. You are not a Representative Elected to any Government Position but yet, these type of people all assume (which like anything else that started this war out by the Adminstration before) that it excludes anyone from thinking that you will not also spend jail time for thinking that way. Unless you think you all have Special Security Clearances to Print Money in the USA -- I beg to differ that you think this or any world Government may not toss you in jail and throw away the key.




posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
The next great public speaker in this country, coupled with the new executive powers granted to the branch by Bush and past presidents will have more power then any President in our history. Thats when I will really start to worry.



Lets just hope the next President, being Democratic, will set about with the support of the Democratic Congress undoing everything Bush has changed.

I know thats what I'd be doing .. and I think if anyone other than Hillary gets the office, they'll do the same. I can see Hillary keeping the changes to strengthen the central power of government into her, 'the administration'.

[edit on 11/16/2007 by runetang]



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by AmoebaSized
 


There are so many legal problems with what you're saying... I don't know where to start.



First of all, anything can be currency. The dividing line of what we determine to be "money" or anything else of "value" is so blurry, no amount of legislation could hope to clarify the mess.

Second, private mint companies are in operation all over the US and Canada, and are perfectly legal. Anytime you "buy" one of their products, you are purchasing the market value of the precious metals either present in the product itself, or what the product is representative of. The companies that do this do so with a profit, yes. But this is no different than any other business run in north america.

The coins minted by this company have value as determined on financial markets. Some people believe their value to be more steady and trustworthy than the US dollar. This is their prerogative. We all have a right to buy, sell, and trade as we see fit. The only difference between private currencies and the US dollar, is that in a US court they will consider the matter of debts settled if you paid in dollars. If you choose other methods of payment, you have to make different arguments as to whether the transaction or contract was fulfilled.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 03:52 AM
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Except that they do not and can not state that it is Legal Tender. It is not. If it sells on the Market Exchange or people decide a value for all of that stuff then those people decided that, and the people have to end up paying for all those other coins with Legal Tender. That is what the Dollar that is Printed by the Government is. Like baseball cards, you can not pay off a debt with baseball cards, unless -- you declare the fair value of it on income taxes to the Federal Government, and like any Loss or Gain, it is agreed upon that you are responsible to pay taxes on it. Buying coins and other minted coins and stuff is alright, but when you decide you can use it for Legal Tender - it is not alright.

And for anyone to think that it would be alright, they would have to same thing happen to them. I do not suggest that anyone is also going to use Drugs as Legal Tender either, because it is Not Legal Tender.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 04:34 AM
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if anyone has Coast to Coast's streamlink....

Catherine Austin Fitts

www.coasttocoastam.com...

I listened to this one a few days ago, if I am remembering right, someone, maybe her, called the treasury dept. and asked them if they would ever conficate the gold and silver..
and they told her that...
THEY RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CONFICATE ANY ASSETT......

I also read somewhere that the governments were trying to shore up their treasuries with gold...and probably silver....

maybe our government has just started the confiscation....to put a little something of value into their treasury?

also, regarding the idea that the liberty dollars and such devalue the legal currency of the US.....
......you're kidding right? The current administration, along with the business practices that have been followed the last few decades seem to indicate to me, that the powers that be want our currency worthless..
don't blame it on the liberty dollar.

www.solari.com...

the liberty dollar isn't big enough a deal to cause that kind of drop!!!



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 04:49 AM
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OMFG
I just found out
My dad's the SW Michigan RCO (regional currency officer) for the liberty dollar. Anyone getting LDs in Southern MI/Northern IN gets them through him. He's not awake yet. I wonder what he'll have to say. I hope they dont go after him too


KEEP IT UP FED YOURE GOING TO [MESS] YOURSELFS UP SOONER OR LATER AND WE'LL BE HERE TO TAKE YOUR ROTTEN HEADS OFF WHEN YOU FALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The real American people wont forget this assult.


Mod Edit: explicit words removed.

[edit on 16-11-2007 by TheBandit795]



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 06:15 AM
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With this action plus the smear campaign going on in the news - specifically - Glenn Beck comparing Ron Paul supporters to Islamofascists, I would have to say that the powers that be have officially declared war on the Ron Paul campaign.

And it's just going to get worse: Now there are articles coming out saying that the Ron Paul campaign has accepted donations from white supremacists and neo-nazi groups
Link



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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Speculation is that the company was in violation of 18 U.S.C.A. § 514.


(a) Whoever, with the intent to defraud--

(1) draws, prints, processes, produces, publishes, or otherwise makes, or attempts or causes the same, within the United States;

(2) passes, utters, presents, offers, brokers, issues, sells, or attempts or causes the same, or with like intent possesses, within the United States; or

(3) utilizes interstate or foreign commerce, including the use of the mails or wire, radio, or other electronic communication, to transmit, transport, ship, move, transfer, or attempts or causes the same, to, from, or through the United States,

any false or fictitious instrument, document, or other item appearing, representing, purporting, or contriving through scheme or artifice, to be an actual security or other financial instrument issued under the authority of the United States, a foreign government, a State or other political subdivision of the United States, or an organization, shall be guilty of a class B felony.
18 U.S.C.A. § 514

And there's this: "Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486."


Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


Furthermore,





when you look at the Liberty Dollar itself, it is easy to see how people could get confused about its relationship to national currency. Why would they put "Trust in God," "USA," and a picture that looks a lot like Lady Liberty on the coin? If those marks on the coin were totally unintentionally, the producers are really sorta dumb because it makes it hard to argue "we never meant for people to get confused."

[edit on 11/16/2007 by Togetic]



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Well... No...


Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Funny, the actual dollar is barely affiliated with the United States Government as its printed by a private bank



U.S. Currency is printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which is part of the United States Treasury, which in turn is a U.S. Government agency.

More on the BEP.


[edit on 15/11/2007 by Mirthful Me]


Sorry you couldn't be any more wrong... the Federal Reserve is no more federal than Federal Express. It is a PRIVATE FOR PROFIT entity that prints money as an admitted PRODUCT for SALE to the United States Govt.

The "Rate" is the interest it charges the US Govt. to BORROW the money from the PRIVATE FED.

Prove me wrong Mr. "Super Moderator"

[edit on 16-11-2007 by DisabledVet]



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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all if you people using trading collectables as a currency,such as baseball cards.

watch out,your officially evil.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by welivefortheson
 


That's an overreaction totally unsupported by the facts. You're in trouble only if Jacob Ellsbury's face is stamped "Trust in God" and "U.S.A." and could be confused with an actual dollar.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by AmoebaSized
 




You seem to have misunderstood several distinctions.

There's difference between Legal Tender and currency. Legal Tender is issued by the Federal Reserve, a private corporation. The currency of Liberty Dollars was issued by The Liberty Dollar Company. The Liberty Dollar Company are quite forthright with customers as to the purpose of issuing Liberty Dollars. The perceived right to use an alternative currency to and replace Federal Reserve Notes are expressed clearly on the website.

Another point is that using a currency such as Liberty Dollars to pay for goods and services is not the same thing as using Legal Tender, i.e., Federal Reserve Notes. So one using Liberty Dollars instead of using Federal Reserve Notes is not using Legal Tender.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by DisabledVet


Sorry you couldn't be any more wrong... the Federal Reserve is no more federal than Federal Express. It is a PRIVATE FOR PROFIT entity that prints money as an admitted PRODUCT for SALE to the United States Govt.

The "Rate" is the interest it charges the US Govt. to BORROW the money from the PRIVATE FED.

Prove me wrong Mr. "Super Moderator"

[edit on 16-11-2007 by DisabledVet]


Actually its you that is wrong DV and MM is right. The Federal Reserve does not and never has printed US currency or minted US coin.

The Federal Reserve is the central banking system for the United States Government. Please read about the Federal Reserve because they do not print US currency they manage it and issue it to banks. Federal Reserve Banks are in most major cities in the US and they act as fiscal agents of the US treasury.

en.wikipedia.org...


"U.S. coins are produced by the United States Mint. U.S. dollar banknotes are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and, since 1914, have been issued by the Federal Reserve."


en.wikipedia.org...
The Federal Reserve get its money from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

The "rate" is the interest the US government has to pay the Fed Reserve to borrow back the currency from the Fed reserve banks.


Prove me wrong



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by geemony
The "rate" is the interest the US government has to pay the Fed Reserve to borrow back the currency from the Fed reserve banks.


Why would the US Government have to pay a rate to the Federal Reserve, a private corporation, to borrow money that the US Government already owns? Why would the US Government set rates, interests rates, against itself?

The Federal Reserve manages the money supply. That is, they have direct control over inflation and deflation, the value of US money. It is already clear that the Federal Reserve can set interest rates of its own accord. Also, the only government official represented on the Federal Reserve Board the is Federal Reserve Chairman, and that person is appointed by the President of the United States. Why would civilians, foreign and domestic, be present on the board of a US government agency instead of government officials that solely represent the intentions and objectives of the US?



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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I emailed constitution.org regarding the FBI raid on liberty dollar and I received this reply.


In many ways this event is comparable to the assault on the Davidians near Waco, although fortunately without the loss of life. But it is also clearly an act of war against the American people, and treason. It could also be a prelude to attacks on other dissenters, such as activists in the constitutional militia movement, Ron Paul supporters, and others. I advise alerting all your people to be ready for anything


If this was illegal why was there no cease and desist order from a court first. Instead the feds bust in the door and confiscate everything. To me this is another stab in the back of free enterprise by gangsters in government.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:06 AM
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Here's a question I've always wanted to ask. You know how employees of Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, JC Penney's, and other retail stores get employee discounts on products sold by those companies? Do you think that Federal Reserve board members get employee discounts on products the Federal Reserve sells?



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:24 AM
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This is all interesting to say the least. This is the first I have ever heard of a such thing as a "Liberty Dollar". Now on to the subject of Ron Paul, why do people continue to worship this guy like he's JC himself? What's so special about him?

This money sounds like an interesting idea, but it DOES undermine the U.S. Dollar. Not being offically backed by the government, who is going to accept such currency? A creative idea? Yes. A potential problem though, and ripe for abuse and forgery? Yes.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
This is all interesting to say the least. This is the first I have ever heard of a such thing as a "Liberty Dollar". Now on to the subject of Ron Paul, why do people continue to worship this guy like he's JC himself? What's so special about him?

This money sounds like an interesting idea, but it DOES undermine the U.S. Dollar. Not being offically backed by the government, who is going to accept such currency? A creative idea? Yes. A potential problem though, and ripe for abuse and forgery? Yes.


Ron Paul represents a bastion of hope for the citizens of the US. He wants to dissolve income tax and the IRS. he also wants to end the Iraq war and bring men and women home. He has my vote to break this crazy cycle of violations being perpetrated on the citizens of the US by the current group of elected bozos.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:45 AM
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I'm still not sure a raid took place, but if it did, it seems to be for other things than just the liberty dollars.

It appears that the org has been under investigation for mail fraud, wire fraud, and money laundering for years.

A warrant was obtained executed for the above.

More here or read the affidavit here (pdf).

I've no idea if this is the real document, so I'll leave it to ATS to verify or debunk.

Here are links to the applicable statutes, quoting from the affidavit:


American Liberty Dollar and/or Hawaii Dala currency and/or precious metals of gold, silver, copper, platinum or other substance and United States currency are forfeitable to the United States under 18 U.S.C. § 982 (a)(1) because it is property involved in, or traceable to, money laundering, in volation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 1956 and 1957 under 18 U.S.C. § 982 (a)(3) because it is, or is traceable to, gross receipts and proceeds obtained, directly or indirectly, as a result of mail fraud, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and wire fraud, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1343. Authority for this warrant is provided by 18 U.S.C. § 981(b) and 21 U.S.C. § 853(f).




[edit on 11/16/07 by makeitso]



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by makeitso
 


It took place. It's real.

It's not a joke, as some would like for you to believe. Some people will do anything to stifle this campaigne.

Associated Press Article

EVANSVILLE, Ind. (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.



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