FBI Raids "Liberty Dollar" Company Offices - Confiscates All "Ron Paul Dollars"

I'll ask the same thing everyone has been asking of Fort Knox...

Show me the bullion... If they can demonstrate the one for one ratio they claim... More power to them... If not, then it's the graybar motel...

One interesting note... How do you get a Liberty dollar? What do you "buy" it with? Seems like the website runs counter to their own monetary policy if they accept "fiat money."

Scam Monkeys, not just for fleecing those born every minute anymore...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


If it's a scam you're worried about then buy the coinage. It's silver and gold. Consider it a high priced numismatic collectible. I got some RP silver coins. At the very least they're neat looking and pure silver. It's worth whatever silver is worth.

reply to post by deltaboy


Funny, the actual dollar is barely affiliated with the United States Government as its printed by a private bank

This whole thing is disheartening, even if it was a scam it wasn't as big a scam as the Federal Reserve System and IRS...

reply to post by Mirthful Me

A-lot of folks thinking this is just one-big-default-scam MM. Pretty obvious if it is. If the story ends-up bogus...most likely it's bogus through & through...a set-up of some kind?

Anyway, found this wonky editor's note from someplace called The Freedom Fellowship. This person claims the raid took place yesterday, the 14th...which might explain the apparent time snafu:

Editor's Note: Here's an example of the perfection of Divine Providence as follows:

I (9) Am (14) Ron (965) Paul (7133) = 8121

Yesterday, November 14, 2007 - the day of the raid - was 8121 "I Am Ron Paul" days from 19850820, Ron Paul's 50th birthday.

Posted by The Freedom Fellowship at 9:25 AM


Thank you Anhinga...really just trying to salvage the little credibility I might have here

reply to post by OBE1


People should research the topic a little more then just a glance at the aesthetic of their website. The rare/new coin market is huge in America and I've heard other stories of the same in other places.

A lot of "patriotic" people like Ron Paul for this reason -- revive the gold standard and abolish the fed. It's a simple, brilliant concept should anyone read into it a little.


[edit on 15-11-2007 by anhinga]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
I don't think Ron Paul endorsed it and I strongly suspect that the Liberty dollars are a scam. As far as I know, only the Federal Reserve can issue legal tender.

The Liberty Dollar is not legal tender, has never tried to be. It is a non-government, private barter currency.

"There is no law that says goods and services must be paid for with Federal Reserve notes. Parties entering into a transaction can establish any medium of exchange that is agreed upon." - Andrew Williams, a spokesman for the Federal Reserve in Washington, D.C.

So long as the buyer and seller both understand that you are exchanging Liberty Dollars, backed in Silver, and not Legal Tender FRN's... its perfectly legal.

The Liberty Dollar organization make the legal issues very clear. It is in their best interest to do so. The Government is (yet again) in the wrong in this situation.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
If their offices were raided it was probably for good reason, and if they weren't raided, the guy's just done a runner with a lot of people's money.

Really now? If they were raided, it was probably for good reason, because the government doesn't make mistakes? It couldn't possible be because they're afraid of competition?

What is next? The Post Office raiding and shutting down UPS/FedEx/DHL ???

Google Video Link

Well... No...

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Funny, the actual dollar is barely affiliated with the United States Government as its printed by a private bank

U.S. Currency is printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which is part of the United States Treasury, which in turn is a U.S. Government agency.

More on the BEP.



[edit on 15/11/2007 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Sorry, backtracking, I realize I breezed right by your response TGRT. You received a client letter today? Please update if you receive a follow-up. Thanks....

I thought the critical legal issues had been resolved?

The gold and silver standard was done away with a very long time ago. If anyone thinks that they can use something else, somewhere along the way, someone is going to have to use Government Printed Money to make anyone else think that the Transaction was Legal.

en.wikipedia.org...

In March 1964, Secretary of the Treasury C. Douglas Dillon halted redemption of Silver Certificates for Silver Dollars. In the 1970s, large numbers of the remaining silver dollars in the mint vaults were sold to the collecting public for collector value. Silver Certificates were abolished by Congress on June 4, 1963 and all redemption in silver ceased on June 24, 1968. Paper currency is still valid legal tender without the Silver Certificate, instead being backed simply by the strength of the U.S. economy. According to the U.S. treasury, "The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."

Same way with the Gold Certificate!

en.wikipedia.org...

As far as I think here, the world of Governments can not support any standard except a Credit Based on the Economy of any Country in this World. This all was done world-wide, because Governments decided that they could not be based on any type of Standard because in the end there is nothing that can be used to support any Government in this World. And anyway, no computers would work since they all use gold and probably some form of silver in all the circuit boards of any computer, well, at least gold. If there is more gold and silver in this Planetary System of Sol or in this Universe, it will have to be found and mined first and then -- Governments would have to decide whether it again would be used as a Standard vs. some other mineral or element that is worth perhaps even more.

It is a Collectible Item just like the Franklin Mint, as far as I am concerned. If anyone thinks that others are going to except it as money, then somewhere along the way - they probably will not -- it is not backed by anything and probably is not even as pure as what they say. Perhaps it is but it all depends on the Market Place and the Stock Exchange.

UPDATE: according to the Wiki page on LD, seems like it's a "federal crime" yet the guy's been active since the late 90s.

en.wikipedia.org...-2

A partial list of merchants accepting Liberty Dollars can be found online [3]. However, it should be noted that according to the U.S. Department of Justice: "the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime". [4]

(3)www.libertydollar.org...

(4)www.usmint.gov...

Critics of the Liberty Dollar include Carl Watner, who publishes the voluntaryist newsletter The Voluntaryist,[25] and Las Vegas libertarian writer Vin Suprynowicz, who refers to Liberty Services as a multi-level marketing system.[26]

Some critics, including Watner, agree with the concept of hard money but disagree with Liberty Services' implementation, saying the "silver base" is extremely rigid compared to the spot price of silver, and recommend instead the use of generic silver rounds as currency. Furthermore, critics assert that stamping a dollar amount on the Silver Liberty defeats the purpose of measuring money in terms of weights of specie, and that the design of the piece may confuse some people into thinking that the Liberty Dollar is legal tender (forced tender) rather than a voluntary private currency.[citation needed]

A private currency is a currency issued by a private institution. It is often contrasted with fiat currency issued by governments.

In many countries, the issue of private paper currencies is severely restricted by law. However, in Scotland and Northern Ireland private sector banks are licensed by the government to print their own paper money.

Today there are several privately issued electronic currencies in circulation, such as digital gold currency, that function as money. Transactions in these currencies represent an annual turnover value in billions of US dollars.

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 15-11-2007 by anhinga]

People, this article is a joke, basically poking fun at conspiracy theorists and Ron Paul supporters! "Ron Paul Dollars" isn't referring to his money, it's referring to a fake coin, like a Silver Dollar or the Presidential Dollar coins. Get it?! I can't believe people are buying into this story. It really hurts ATS's image, let alone your own

this is what happens when good people do nothing, and fear sacrificing themselves to save others. Sadly the ones doing so are doing it for the wrong reasons. World government rather than our government. Globablists should know by now that no matter whether they win in some big deception and take over the world, there still not going to last forever becasue they suck a**. I would say this whole thing is a selfish satanic evil game being played by absolute losers who never had a life and had to go around stealing it from others. I have a term for these people too..parasites. Leave Ron Paul alone, or you may just see what americans are truly made of. We will arrest cops, fbi and cia and politicians and anyone else if actions like this continue..mass arrests
- back off of my country immediately or reap the consequences of your own foolish natures. This is no threat of violence by the way, its prophecy of your future if you assault our liberty anymore. I predict you (selfish globalists liars) lose in the end of this assault on freedom, you cant fool me, nor the millions with brains and a will to defend themselves from all threats. Please masters, protect me benevolently from the enemies you make for us. Let me serve you like a slave..thank you masta thank you!

B.T.W - RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT! STOP THE BUSH TYRANNY! JAIL ALL WAR CRIMINALS! STOP THE DRUG WAR! STOP THE INCOME TAX! STOP THE NWO! i am only laughing that they are so stupid..

[edit on 15-11-2007 by mastermind77]

What I find hard to believe is that people fell for this.

You give them real money in exchange for fake money that is backed up by Gold and Silver that may or may not exist. They gladly accept your real money that they say is worthless. Apparently not worthless to them.

If you want Gold and Silver buy it. It is easy to buy at a tiny percentage above spot. It is overpriced right now so it may not be a good idea. Don't buy paper saying you own Gold. Buy the actual Gold. Not to mention it is legal that way. From the articles I've just read you can do five years for trying to pass off this fake currency. People have actually tried to use it in a Banking Transaction.

Confidence Men belong in Prison. I suspect that is where this one and his Partners are going. It will be most embarrassing when his victims realize they have been tricked. I wonder how much real money he took in?

If Ron Paul got involved in this he can't be too smart. Perhaps they made the coin as a tribute without permission. Hopefully that is the case. For Ron Paul that is.

nevermind ... meaningless rhetoric

[edit on 15-11-2007 by tyranny22]

I'd love for someone to tell me what the difference is between "Liberty Dollars" and "Beanie Babies."

Originally posted by Rockpuck

You know, granted I am a pessimist.. but I get the most uncomfortable feeling in this country anymore.. big changes are heading our way. Big indeed.

Deal me in RockPuck. If true, linking the RP campaign to a coven of periferal currency scamers could have major political fall-out. Good thing we live in America...in a less bipartisan, less democratic environment, news items like the one below, and RP's rocketing popularity might even qualify as probabale cause.

EVANSVILLE, Ind., Oct. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- In an all-out battle, Liberty Dollar in Evansville, Indiana, has issued the 2008 Peace Dollar to "Stop the War." As if President Bush's unpopular war does not have enough problems, the Peace Dollar appears to offer an attractive way for the antiwar forces to gain strategic ground at a profit. Link

[edit on 15-11-2007 by OBE1]

Originally posted by Togetic
I'd love for someone to tell me what the difference is between "Liberty Dollars" and "Beanie Babies."

LOL. Same here.

There are some mildly interesting information "out there" though.
At least 2 reports say that the Indianapolis FBI office referred people with questions about the raid to the North Carolina FBI office. Why?

One report gives the possible explanation for the referral to the N.C. office.

I've seen a copy of a Nov. 9 seizure warrant on an Asheville, NC, address, not available online, claiming that Liberty Dollars at that address are forefeitable for being connected with money laundering and mail fraud.

Liberty Dollar Reportedly Raided by FBI

The reporter cannot confirm 100% that is the reason for the Evansville raid, but its kind of interesting, eh?

reply to post by Copernicus


By your posts' description of how the Liberty Dollar works (backed by physical precious-metal reserves) sounds very similar to how the US Dollar worked before the dropping of the 'Gold Standard'

Here are some current articles:

www.usatoday.com...

courierpress.com...

This has been brewing for a while.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Nevermind. My Antivirus says don't go to the link I posted here. So I deleted it.



[edit on 11/15/07 by makeitso]

[edit on 11/15/07 by makeitso]