Global Warming Theory takes a hit!

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by traderonwallst

[...]COWS FARTING ALL PLAY A BIGGER ROLE IN THE SO-CALLED GLOBAL WARMING THEORY THAN MAN DOES.

And who controls the majority of the bovine population? It's not free roaming cows that produce the most, it's the ones that are in farms. We cut trees down to make grazing land for cows.

And what about the millions of bison that roamed the plains and lowlands before the Europeans came? And what about the fact that there are more trees in Iowa NOW than there was before the Europeans came (and some other Midwest states for that matter)? Man changes his environment just as much for the good as for the bad. Ask the caribou warming themselves along pipelines in Northern Canada.

The Global Warming/Al Gore Retardathon is losing support simply due to its unprovable premise and the fact that more people are starting to see through it.

What happens if we all conform to what is suggested to drop the temperature 0.005 degrees F at the cost of the collapsing global economy (eventually, its the USA that will have to lead the way on this one too!)? Its not like China will follow suit. Global Warming is politically motivated. And its a fact--its just got very little if anything to do with man's existence on this rock.

No global warming? North Carolina set all time heat records this last summer. The hottest ever recorded. They're imposing more water limits, and we have lakes drying up. Sounds like warming to me.

And haven't we been warned about these things by prophets for centuries. Case in point in the following 800 year old message:

"When the time will come, in which mankind will face its last, hard trial,
it will be foreshadowed by striking changes in nature. Alternation between
cold and heat will become more intense, storms will have more catastrophic
effects, earthquakes will destroy greater regions, and the seas will
overflow many lowlands. Not all will be the result of natural causes, but
mankind will penetrate into the bowels of the earth and will reach into the
clouds, gambling with its own existence." - Johann Friede, 13th century monk

reply to post by CreeWolf


So lame.


There's a difference between millions of migrating bison and the 20 million heads of cattle a month slaughtered for food. You could use common sense to decipher the difference between.

Migration : Concentration


Okay, on the subject.

I don't know if global warming is real. I do however know that pollution is a real concern for the quality of our land, air, and water. I don't get behind the global warming theory because the people who head the theory all seem like they have ulterior motives.

"Snakes eat rats."

There is no doubt in my mind that humans are affecting the environment. But global warming puts the blame on the wrong culprit. CO2 is naturally occurring.

We add so many other harmful pollutants to the atmosphere and water supply. Why is all the focus on global warming? Shouldn't we be focusing on the contaminants in our water supply?

If you ask me, seems like 'global warming' is conspiracy to deflect any attention from other ways we are polluting the environment.

Originally posted by steve22
Global warming is a terrible misnomer. It misleads people into thinking that everything on the planet is getting warmer, which is NOT true. There are plenty of places where just the opposite is taking place, and people who think that climate change is "just a cycle" or "is complete bunk" use this to support their (weak) argument.

A more apt name would be Man-Made Extreme Global Climate Change. Sadly, that doesnt roll off the tongue as well as Global Warming, but it encompasses the fact that our planet is experiencing extreme weather changes at both ends of the spectrum. Human induced climate change IS real!

This is just what I mean. There is nothing man made about it. I am sick and tired of people just spitting back information. Stupid does as stupid is told to do!!!! Make an arguement, use absolute truths, backed by science. Go ahead and prove MAN IS CAUSING global warming. I dare you!!!! What? You can't do it? Thats right.......Every theory is flawed. Just ask MrGore himself. Error after error after error. Theories are theories because they can't be proven. Once they are proven, they are no longer theory, but science. Every day the theory of global warming changes. Why? the facts change and they update their theories to show this, or they leave certain data out because it won't work in their theory.

PROVE IT! PROVE IT! PROVE IT!!

Despite what everyone says, the burden of PROOF falls on the theorists, not the debunkers!!!!!! A theory is just a best guess anyway.

[edit on 30-10-2007 by traderonwallst]

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by traderonwallst

 

Quit buying into the Bush rhetoric. Nearlly every enviromental scientist on the planet accepts global warming is happening - and that it's predominantly man-made. The few that disagree tend to be on the pay rolls of the big oil companies. Simple really...
Jimbo

WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO PROVE THIS.................

If not, then would have to say your talking bunk now too!

Originally posted by jimbo999
Man-made, atmospheric green-house gases are trapping heat, which is in turn melting the ice caps AND reducing the reflective abilities of the ice caps; which is now leading to changes in ocean temperatures.

Lets get this right Jimmyboy. It's volcano-made, man influenced. We are very low on the list of things that make atmospheric green-house gasses. Volcanoes blow us a way, no PUN intended!

reply to post by malcr


It is the job of the theorists to prove their science correct. show me the data, show me your facts. I will then correct them for you.

Why are we better than those working in the field? We do not have a vested interest in getting our "theories" to the media so they can be pushed as truths.

Oh, yeah....don;t quote the IPCC, we already know how flawed their data was despite being given the Nobel Putz Prize.

[edit on 30-10-2007 by traderonwallst]

reply to post by Elhardt


Records are made to be broken. If they weren't, people would not keep statistics. I wonder if anyone complained the 80 degree weather we had in NY 2 weeks ago. I know I loved it, and wished for a few more weeks of it. Long live global warming!!!!!!

Are we all having fun yet? I am. Its 9:18 am, not alot of work scheduled today, so hopefully this will keep me busy today.

I also intend are starting 2 new threads, 1 on peak oil and my views, and the other on the US Dollar, and how I think its ripe for a trade UP!

Can't gaurantee I will get both out today, but will try.

Once the Fed meeting is over, I know I will be busy.

Here's the thing people, instead of arguing over what constitutes GW or if there even is GW why don't we all wise up?

Isn't it better to err on the side of caution? GW or not, the fact is we are still pumping ton after ton of greenhouse gas into the atmosphere. This stuff just doesn't disappear! We litter and pollute and abuse the planet but I've never even heard of anyone even getting a citation for throwing crap from their car. Fining big business for polluting is great but if we don't address it at the basic personal level it's not going to have an impact. Whether GW is real or not, shouldn't we be doing something anyway? I mean who is stupid enough not to realize that these new light bulbs will save them money? If we can't even get people to want to save money then how are we going to address even larger issues?

We can all have a tremendous impact in helping our planet just by changing our stupid light bulbs and not wasting water and not using electricity needlessly. People are so dependent on light that they turn them on even when they don't need them. I am sitting in an office right now that is lit by my PC monitor and indirect lighting coming thru my open door. I don't need anymore than that and I contend that neither do most other people. In fact, I only use half the fluorescent lights in my part of the building. I have yet to have anyone complain that they can't see as they don't even notice. Many of these dependencies are just psychological and habitual. It's just the little everyday things people! I'm not saying give up your car, I'm just saying to think and reprogram yourself and you'd be surprised at how much you can help by just doing those little things every day.

Why can't we stop arguing and just take care of our planet? It's the only one we have.

Originally posted by jbondo

Why can't we stop arguing and just take care of our planet? It's the only one we have.

People feel the inherent need to argue. They need to make themselves feel important. They need make themselves feel like they are fighting the good fight. Me on the other hand, I am just having fun. In most of my inperson debates I have with colleauges, I drive them nuts by arguing both sides of the point. I like to jump on their side when I see them struggling and make the arguement work. I jump over and help them out, and get tham back on track. Once on track, I ususlaly smack them back down. Right now, the fun side of the arguement is "no such thing as global warming". If they were smart enough to just play the pollution card and stop all the scare tactics, maybe I would join their side.

As long as they keep up the global warming cause, and putting the blame on us humans.......I am going to keep enjoying the arguementitive side.

And since they still have NO scientific proof, that can not be debunked, its just easy fodder. They have one arguement.....CO2 levels. We can come back with solar heating, solar flares and sunspot activity, volcaones, cycles, historic weather patterns, geologic anomalies, pole shift...etc, etc. Its just fun to spin them in circles and watch them chase their tails.



[edit on 30-10-2007 by traderonwallst]

It /is/ true that scientific consensus is that global warming exists. The disagreements are mostly about, to what level is human input effecting this, and to what degree will the climate change?

These articles explain it fairly clearly.

environment.newscientist.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Even what I would call someone from the 'denial camp' says:

Two recent surveys of scientists – one of 530 climate scientists conducted in 2003 by German scientists Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch and the second conducted in 2006 of members of the National Registry of Environmental Professionals – shed some light on what scientists really believe.

Most scientists (more than 80 percent) believe some global warming has occurred. The best estimate is that global temperatures have risen about 1 degree Fahrenheit during the past 100 years.

A majority of scientists, but certainly not all, believe the human presence is responsible for some part of the recent warming. Most scientists believe it is not yet possible to determine how much of the modern warming is the result of natural cycles and how much is due to human activities.

The scientific community is split down the middle on whether future warming would be moderate and benign, or severe and harmful.

www.globalwarmingheartland.org...


There are 8 different models of prediction, all done independantly. Look at the chart, here:

www.globalwarmingart.com...:Global_Warming_Predictions_png

Here are the temperatures for the last 2000 years, using ten different data sources:

www.globalwarmingart.com...:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison_png

As for common counterpoints thrown out by those that are in the Denial camp, read here for a debunking of each point.

environment.newscientist.com...

Also, climate is a very complex thing, I don't believe anyone has said that increased number of cyclones MUST happen each and every year, only that there is a greater inclination for such due to the changes we already see happening. Increased cyclones or lack of, are not evidence of a lack of global warming.

The earth is in fact round you guys. Sorry to break it to you, but the only reason their is a debate at all is because of Exxon Mobile. You're the same as holocaust deniers in my books. Shameful.

Watch all four parts of this the Fifth Estate - Denial Machine

Just admit we're not perfect already, put the shovel down and step out of your grave.

•••••

To Traderonwallst, you could have Bill O'riley's job eh... you know know that right.

To everyone else, HIS NAME IS TRADER-ON-WALL-STREET!!!!!! He probablly drinks crude for breakfast, well we all do, but I mean like pure unrefined oil from the ground.

[edit on 10/30/2007 by VaporTrail]

reply to post by VaporTrail


Have not actually been a trader since 2002. Still work in Manhattan though. NEVER a commodity trader, never a currency trader, only an equity trader. I was as news trader and a momentum trader. Never held positions more than I needed to. Never "married" to a stock. Never traded the likes of XOM, or Exxon and Mobil as they were spearate for most of my trading days. I never traded big caps, just small to mid-sized stocks that I could swing for a nice trade on news. The big guys were too hard to get any good gains on an intra-day or multi-day period.

Think what you want about my traderonwallst nomicker, but its just that.

No reason to jump to ininsinuations Vapor. Thats what I mean when I argue, know your facts and don;t argue with your heart. You always jump to conclusions or continue to defend incorrect data, just because it means something to you.

Now to really piss alot of you off, PEAK OIL is Bunk too. But a thread about that is forth coming, probably not until later tonight though.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
reply to post by VaporTrail

 

Now to really piss alot of you off, PEAK OIL is Bunk too. But a thread about that is forth coming, probably not until later tonight though.

Do a search first we have plenty of threads on Peak oil and global warming.

We have some very popular ones by Muadibb.

[edit on 30-10-2007 by marg6043]

Hey did you watch the episode i posted yet?

You said it all though man, defending claims you can't support.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you, I can tell you're too close-minded to admit any wrong doing. I just want the other people loured to your rediclous thread title to watch an investigative report by some people who know a great deal more than you seam to on this issue that you're "married" to.

I'll post it again.

the Fifth Estate - Denial Machine


••••••

Oh also, Don't worry about peak oil, we're past peak. now begins the long downward slope. I'm not worried about you believing that trader, you'll eat those word someday when you're unable to eat food.

[edit on 10/30/2007 by VaporTrail]

Originally posted by VaporTrail

To everyone else, HIS NAME IS TRADER-ON-WALL-STREET!!!!!! He probablly drinks crude for breakfast, well we all do, but I mean like pure unrefined oil from the ground.
[edit on 10/30/2007 by VaporTrail]

So, what's your point with this comment?

You think he should be silenced just because he doesn't agree with your point of view?

Great example of elitism at its worst IMO.

I believe his point is valid - that you all can argue all you want based solely on your personal beliefs, but no one has scientifically proven yet that mankind has caused any global warming, or that mankind can stop any global warming if it is occuring.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

The current American Bison population has been growing rapidly and is estimated at 350,000, but this is compared to an estimated 60–100 million in the mid-19th century.

htt p://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:kdlor_P0TeoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bison+bison+population&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

I know it's Wiki but the Bison population was much larger than the few million you seem to claim. I could find other sources to back it up.

They stretched over the Great Plains far into Canada as well. We, as European North Americas, did a fantastic job almost erradicating them in less than a century.

Point is, till "civilized" man comes around, there is a great multitude of lifeforms all over the place. Once he arrives the diversity of the habitat drastically reduces. It's gotten so bad that to hunt quail in some places you have to buy them and release them to do so. That's just one example of many the way man has mismanaged things. Over fishing, over hunting, over planting, depleting the soil, fairly sterile tree farms as opposed to thriving woodlands...the list goes on.

[edit on 30-10-2007 by pavil]

Alright, the last thing i meant to do when pointing to trader's name was to split the issue. And you're absolutely right, that kind of rhetoric is useless and demeaning. I meant it to be a comical reflection on the message that trader gives us. Regardless it was unnecessary.

I do stand by my view of trader and will explain why. There is nothing in this argument for him. Indeed their is nothing in the global warming debate for anyone who isn't directly tied to the oil industry. Anyone who is not tied to oil already has the answers and measures to find a solution. The debate is a distraction and a waste of time. People who are still on the fence need to realize this.

My father is a oil and gas geologist. He provides for his family by finding and selling oil and natural gases. We don't agree on all the points of carbon emissions, it's hard for him to admit to the problem, He says the same things as everyone else who doesn't say informed. (he's not in research, he's in exploration) but even as he fights to keep his moral foundation intact so he can continue to provide for his family, we both agree that oil is finite, CO2 in the atmosphere is what lead to the anoxic oceanic state in the Jurassic (no ice at the poles), and that we are past peak and need to strengthen conservation efforts.

Stop wasting time.

•••••••

Oh and if you still believe that their has been no proof. you really need to watch that fifth estate episode i keep posting.

the Fifth Estate - Denial Machine

In it you will see that the largest peer reviewed scientific investigation ever done was to study global warming IPCC. I won't tell you what they determined... you really just need to watch it.

The same people who said Tobacco wasn't bad for you are behind this. If you believe their is no hard evidence for global warming, you have digested their poison, and are now working for them.

Be Brave. I dare you to watch that episode.



[edit on 10/30/2007 by VaporTrail]

[edit on 10/30/2007 by VaporTrail]