How Were the Cockpits Taken ? Examining the Logistics

reply to post by eyewitness86


Oh, my. I didn't realise it was so hard for you to add two and two and come up with four, let alone five.

Step one: Ask question. How did four sets of...

Step two: Follow link to Wikipedia article.

Step three: learn history of aircraft hijackings. Specifically the "Dawson's Field" hijackings by the PFLP.

Step four: Notice how many aircraft were hijacked to Dawson's field.

Step five: Decide to do some actual research of your own about the history of aircraft hijacking, instead of repeating the same questions again and again while referring to those questions as an actual theory in its own right.

Among your intellectual failings in regard to this thread and those questions/theory have been your refusal to admit that numerous hijackers have broken down locked cockpit doors and that previous hijackers have attempted to wrest control of the plane personally from the pilot instead of merely directing the pilot.

You have also refused to recognise the fact that many times hijackers have taken control of an aircraft through the pilot (by threatening the pilot and/or crew and/or passengers or all three simultaneously). This refusal is astonishing given the number of hijacking incidents in recent memory that involve airliners taken midflight and then piloted to destinations other than those listed on the ticket.

This refusal is the only reason by which you continue to demand that the pilots would not have got out of their seats voluntarily and while still alive. You claim, with absolutely no proof, that the pilots would have known (through divine omniscience, or perhaps merely ESP) that the hijackers were intending to use the aircraft as piloted missiles and therefore would have done all in their power to prevent this goal from being accopmlished.

This is despite a documented fifty-year history of hijacking in which one rule has been taught to air crew again and again (with the exception of one airline: El Al): acquiesce, follow the hijacker's instructions, do nothing to jeopardise the safety of your passengers and fellow crew.

Instead of actually rebutting any of these explanations point by point with rational analysis of the situation and explanations you dismiss them out of hand and repeat your questions again.

So, EW, I have a short list of questions for you to answer. Any refusal to do so will be proof of the intellectual bankruptcy of your "theory".

1. If the PFLP could hijack four airliners in a single operation, why couldn't Al Qaeda?

2. If international air crew are always told to give in to their hijackers' demands as the best way to guarantee a peaceful outcome to the situation and the survival of the passengers, why on this one day would the air-crew choose to overturn five decades of experience and teaching and attempt to resist?

3. How, exactly, did the pilots know their aircraft were to be used as guided missiles when no high-profile hijacker in history has ever done this before?

4. Why wouldn't a pilot get out of his chair if a hijacker held a knife to a passenger's throat and ordered him to do so?

5. Why do you refuse to accept that the cockpit door is easily broken through, given the proof of previous hijackers easily breaking through them?

Given that cockpit doors are easily broken through, previous hijackings have almost always resulted in the pilots following the hijackers' demands, previous hijackers have attempted to personally fly the plane AND four aircraft have been hijacked in a single incident before, WHY do you find it impossible that all of these events, none of which have ever been practised in isolation of the others before, could not have been brought together in a single event?

At Dawson's field the hijackers took control of FOUR aircraft. The pilots of those FOUR aircraft ALL followed the instructions of the hijackers and flew their jets where the hijackers told them.

Yet, in one particularly unbelievable example, you stated that no airline crew would ever co-operate with hijackers.

Answer these questions, EW.

Nonsense!! As if a cockpit door could be kicked in FOUR times and yet not ONEpilot being able to send a radio message...right. You ail to note that IN FLIGHThighjackings are far different than those on the ground. The pilots of planes in the air would NOT give uip the controls...no way. NEVER in all of aviation has a highjacker taken the pilots out and assumed control. Never.

highjackers always have political motives and want to live...now you want us to believe that the highjackers wanted the least qualified to fly...sure. nonsense.

Yopu have done nothing but assume things not in evidence. There would be FOUR sets of radio messages with yelling and cockpit invasion noise if the official lie was true...yet all we have is a phony tape of some ' highjacker' that supposedly mistook the radio for an intercom!!

You have proven NOTHING...all you have done is to try and get us to believe the impossible: That FOUR sets of pilots were INSTANTLY taken , without any chance to move a muscle...and thats nonsense. NO ONE has answered this: HOW could FOUR sets of ' highjakers' gain instant and total victory in those cockpits? No fighting by the crew,huh? They just all squealed like sissies and fled the cockpits, right? no way. Burlingame alone would have fought like a tiger rather than give up his plane to some unknown pilot...and if you add the HUNDREDS of ' inexplicable nomalies' associated with this event to the mix, no intelligent person could assume what you do...it is silly.

NO PROOF exists that supports the official lie. None.

I note that after all this time with no responses, STILL no one has proposed in an intelligent and likley way, that four cockpits were taken: Perfectly, silently, instantaneously...with no defensive actions taken by the crews and no radio alerts....even though calling on their radios took only the flip of a switch by the thumb of each of the eight pilots.

Remote control is the ONLY answer: No way possible for 4 flights to be taken instantaneously by small men using only supposed small blades. just invading four cockpits would give enough time for at least ONE radio message of an emergency...or the activation of the highjack alert...which only took a second or two...and we are expected to believe what the government says? know what they say?

The official story does not even DARE approach this subject, as the only excuses would be so weak and silly that they avoid it alotgether...try finding ANY official story about how the cockpits were taken...all you can find is: " Somehow they got in ' type nonsense, and they will not speak of it because it is a smoking gun...still.

Any rational people agree with me?

Any at all...is anyone there?

Unless someone can show me that this issue has been resolved to a degree that would end any controversy, I can assume that there is still no consensus as to HOW in hell a few small arabs pulled off 4 instantaneous feats of impossibility in less than a second.

Anyone care to try?

Wow this is a good point that I hadn't thought of as much before. I agree that there is no way in hell that airline pilots wouldn't be able to alert some type of emergency response if people were braking into the cockpit. It's the first thing they would do then they would fight off the people. Box cutters aren't going to do any quick damage, they aren't samurai swords.

You are right. There is no way the small men they claim took over could have instantly taken over...no way. Only remote control is instant.

it amazes me that more people do not try and find out why the govt. never even tried to explain it.

Originally posted by richierich


Any rational people agree with me?

Nope. Doesn't look like it.

[edit on 22-5-2010 by trebor451]

Originally posted by Boone 870

originally posted by ULTIMA1


April 18, 2002 Princeton, New Jersey

washingtonpost.com

from your source:

"A lot of [the tape] was unintelligible, and a lot of it we couldn't follow very easily, so I don't think it gives us resolution," said Tom Burnett

[edit on 22-5-2010 by dragnet53]

I dont understand how all the passengers on the planes and their subsequent phone calls got covered up/were a cover up?

"The official story does not even DARE approach this subject"

This is one of numerous subjects the OS does not even come close to approaching or explaining.

How about this one? Where was airport security on that date? Four to five Arab looking guys go through security equipped with boxcutters and this does not raise one single red flag at security? Didn't the metal detectors detect the blades?

And this did not happen once, twice or even three times on that day - this happened four times, within the span of an hour? Hello?!

There were no boxcutters. No need. The Arabs were fall guys playing along and had no idea there were being set up to die. Even if they DID somehow defy incredible odds and manage to somehow sneak boxcutters thru 4 sets of security...and remember that at least one of them was singled out for a thorough inspection...that still cannot explain how a small man with a boxcutter could: Slash or cut or otherwise get thru the locked cockpit doors..remember this is all times 4....

...and then somehow disable or kill both pilots...haul their bodies out of the cramped cockpits..assume the seats and controls, and continue their mission. The government expects us to believe that they accomplished all this all 4 times, without a glitch..and so fast that not even ONE pilot could move his thumb on the yoke and push the radio button. Not one plane showed any deviation from the flight path...no pilot rolled the plane..as all pilots would do..to try and throw the highjackers off long enough to take control AND place a mayday.

No, the planes all continued on until the system changed course and flew them to their destination. it HAD to be remote control. no other way.

To ask anyoner to accept the official story is an insult. It really is.

To enter 4 locked cockpits...kill or convince both pilots to abandon their seats and meekly retire to the rear...as the official lie says in one case..Barbara Olson supposedly told Ted that the pilot was in the back...I guess he was waiting for Barb to get done so HE could borrow a phone...you know, maybe call the airline and tell them they are being highjacked...?? Unreal..just unreal that the government has the gaul to spew out this claptrap and expects us to swallow it .

it is beyond ridiculous...and the Government knows this is a major weak link....all they say is : SOMEHOW the highjackers entered all 4 cockpits and took over. Thats it...thats all they will say. Not ONE debate about HOW on any news source I could find archived...if anyone can find one please chip in.

You KNOW that you have them in a bad position when they do not even dare to broach the subject....it is too incredible...their excuse can never hold up so they simply dismiss it altogether.Hmmm, I wonder if an FOIA request might uncover some info??

why did many airline companies remove the remote control aspect of their planes after 9/11 ?

as i see it there is no real reason to "take" the cockpits if it all was a drill, but one question that boggles me is that when did anyone notice that they werent flying the planes ?

reply to post by richierich


Just saw that this ridiculous thread has been revived. You make a lot of absolute declarations, richierich, about just how YOU think it may have happened int he cockpits, but I'm sorry to tell you, you have no concept, obviously. SINCE I doubt you have the experience to even begin to pontificate on the subject.

There were no boxcutters.

Wrong!

The Arabs were fall guys playing along and had no idea there were being set up to die.

Wrong, again!! You are forgetting that TWICE, two separate airplanes, the terrorist pilots accidentally transmitted OUTSIDE the airplane, on the ATC frequency, when they intended to make a PA to the cabins.

Even if they DID somehow defy incredible odds and manage to somehow sneak boxcutters thru 4 sets of security...

SIGH...what is it with those stupid 'conspiracy' websites and boxcutters?!?

Prior to 9/11 small knives WERE ALLOWED! The limit was somewhere around two inches maximum length...and a razor blade in a boxcutter is less than that.

BUT, I see you have such an incorrect mental image, because you WANT so desperately for it to be a "conspiracy"...

...that still cannot explain how a small man with a boxcutter could: Slash or cut or otherwise get thru the locked cockpit doors..

WHAT? Do you honestly envision THAT as the way it happened? Not seriously?

Try a little more imagination (but NOT the type most 'conspiracy theorists' like to use....)

...and then somehow disable or kill both pilots...haul their bodies out of the cramped cockpits..

Let's take those one-by-one....First, the pilots were startled from behind. How? The entry was FORCED, at an opportune time when the doors were OPENED by a flight attendant! (This is why it hasn't been discussed, NOT your fantasy about it somehow 'destroying' the so-called "official story").

We are WELL AWARE of that potential threat NOW....but there was little to no concern back then.

SO...pilots, seated with backs to the door, seatbelts attached. It takes one long stride, two at most for the razor-blade-wielding killers to come up from behind, grab their heads and slash their throats. A deep cut on the neck? Carotid artery? You bleed out real, real fast.

Here's the 'business end' of the jet (a B-767 in this case, but the relative size of the cockpit AT THIS POINT are almost identical --- I should know, I've flown them for many thousands of hours):



Note, firstly, the Captain's seat (left side). It is in its aft-most position, for ingress and egress...slides aft and outboard, on the J-shaped seat tracks mounted in the floor.

You can see the bloke on the right, his seat is also full aft and out, and he has room to swing legs and even sit sideways.

Here's another shot, taken from the appoximate postion of the number 1 jumpseat:



Note, please, it is American Airlines, and see the microphone on the right? Doen by the O2 mask, and the cabin audio speaker? The arrangement on the left side is the same. THAT mic is going to transmit to whatever postion is selected on the audio panel...it CAN be used for the PA, if selected properly. BUT, normally, we use the handset mounted aft of the center pedestal for PAs. The terrorists didn't know how to use it, though, apparently.

As to "hauling thier bodies" out? You can see there is room, and it is likely they only took ONE body out of the seat, in some cases (AAL 77 for instance, and UAL 93).


Here's a fish-eye lens view, below, of Ship #052 from my airline...Captain is all the way back the FO is up in normal postion for flight. The photographer is standing just about two feet in FRONT of the cockpit entry door:

www.airliners.net...&sid=d45544de762dd1de0bb8da130377f54b

And this photo below, another airplane...see the jumpseat #2, bottom right? The back of that seat is just inches from the bulkhead where the entry door is mounted, so the photographer is standing just inside the door. (BTW....on the 767 the door opens INWARD, and there is a step UP from cabin level, to cockpit floor. Opposite arrangement on the 757):



Another perspective:




AND, yes....this too can happen:

..and so fast that not even ONE pilot could move his thumb on the yoke and push the radio button.

You seem to think you know everything? Actually, ONE pilot (UAL 93?) did key his headset (still had it on, apparently) and "Mayday!" was recorded on ATC recordings, and other noises from an occasional open mic. (At altitude, we generally remove the headsets, but it's a personal option. They are only MANDATORY below 18,000 feet).

Not one plane showed any deviation from the flight path...

Why would they? Autopilots weren't disconnected during these cockpit intrusion events. At least, we have the info from TWO flights:

www.ntsb.gov...

no pilot rolled the plane..as all pilots would do..to try and throw the highjackers off long enough to take control AND place a mayday.

NO!!! Obviously, taken by surprise as they were, they didn't have time, NOR would have occured to them, in such short time span.

BESIDES...we talked about it, post 9/11....was deemed the WRONG thing to do! They still have advantage, and can hold on. Risk is too great to everyone else, strategy is to KEEP THEM OUT at all costs.

it HAD to be remote control. no other way.

BALONEY!!! You obviously know nothing, and think it's somehow EASY to configure FOUR jets (not originally designed for it) to R/C???

The terrorist pilots KNEW HOW to operate the autopilot. Look at the link, up above. THEY were using it...not perfectly, not with finesse in some cases, but they knew enough.

To ask anyoner to accept the official story is an insult. It really is.

No. But your lack of knowledge and experience, and THEN claiming you have all the answers??? Well....kinda insulting, really it is.

..Barbara Olson supposedly told Ted that the pilot was in the back...

There WAS a pilot on board, in the back...AS A PASSENGER!!! He was NOT from the working flight crew!!!

What a shame....I suppose you got a lot of your opinions from some other sources, like those stupid conspiracy sites.

Aviation professionals, for the most part, dismiss and ignore them as meaningless, for they are...less than worthless, too.

BUT, this kind of poor information, and incorrect "thinking" is starting to fester....

reply to post by zerbot565


Huh??

why did many airline companies remove the remote control aspect of their planes after 9/11 ?

Where did THAT little nugget of disinfo start???

See, THIS is how it keeps getting dumber and dumber, because someone on the Internet makes a claim, and no one checks, they just accept it without question......

Ther eis NO 'remote control aspect" on the production boeing 757 or 767. Never was. Isn't.

"Let's take those one-by-one....First, the pilots were startled from behind. How? The entry was FORCED, at an opportune time when the doors were OPENED by a flight attendant!"

On all four planes flight attendants left all four cockpit doors wide open so these diminutive boxcutter wielding hijackers could stroll right in and attack the pilots.

Sure this happened. I mean...just because there was a rash of airplane hijackings/bombings in the '70s, '80s and '90s doesn't mean that any precautions had to be taken against such occurrences.

Or...if you do not buy the above scenario...here is the alternative. The hijackers forced themselves into the cockpit WHILE the Flight Attendants were opening the cockpit doors.

Obviously, the flight attendants offered no resistance and the hijackers quickly disposed of the FAs in a split second, giving the pilots no time to react. Or maybe the Flight Attendants were invisible and the hijackers went right through them.

For the above scenarios to happen four times within an hour and succeed on all four occasions...well let's just say I'll give more odds to a snowball's chance in hell.

Please feel free to respond with your usual intellectually vacant pre-scripted insults and belittling. I think I stopped counting at about one dozen during your previous post.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Errrrr....yeah, that was what I was trying to point out.....

Or...if you do not buy the above scenario...here is the alternative. The hijackers forced themselves into the cockpit WHILE the Flight Attendants were opening the cockpit doors.

Thanks, buddy...for agreeing with me, because from MY perspective, knowledge, experience and familiarity with how business USED to be conducted in the pre-9/11 days, that is the most likely.

One more possibility, I hesitated to ever bring it up before, because it wasn't meant to be public knowledge. HOWEVER, the doors are all retro-fitted, and more secure nowadays, so what I'm telling is old history, by now.

We each had a cockpit door key. (So did mechanics, too). ONE simple key, fit ALL Boeing doors. Fit ALL doors, regardless of make or model, too.

(I actually had three, at one time in my career...supposed to have one at all times, but in time you lose one, get another...find the first one, etc...pretty soon you have two or three...)

Depending on airline, there was either a hidden key location (near an emergency equipment stowage location) OR each Flight Attendant was also issued a key, and required to carry it when on duty.

Just saying....would NOT have difficult, had the terrorists been aware of the keys' existence, to have acquired one (or more) or made copies.

Besides...in the past? Those doors weren't any stronger than the lavatory doors...built to be lightweight, only to act as a deterent. They were NOT very strong, were a honeycomb/composite/epoxy material, with vinyl covering (like shelf paper) for decoration. And a thin aluminum frame and latch.

Perhaps I haven't hit the brick wall with my head quite enough times...

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Nonsense!! As if a cockpit door could be kicked in FOUR times and yet not ONEpilot being able to send a radio message...right.

Yes, right. You are talking about a friggin' partition, not a security door.

You ail to note that IN FLIGHThighjackings are far different than those on the ground.

No, I don't. All the hijackings I noted were in-flight. You are simply inventing crap out of thin air.

The pilots of planes in the air would NOT give uip the controls...no way.

Why not?

NEVER in all of aviation has a highjacker taken the pilots out and assumed control. Never.

Right, first it was that it had never been attempted. Then when I proved that it had been attempted it has changed to "never successfully" or something. Or is it just that you can't read words that prove you wrong? Just because something hasn't been attempted before doesn't mean it can never be attempted. Even terrorists can innovate. Especially terrorists can innovate.

highjackers always have political motives and want to live

Wrong.

...now you want us to believe that the highjackers wanted the least qualified to fly...sure. nonsense.

But they weren't the least qualified, were they? Unlike the rest of the passengers the hijackers had all attended flight schools. That automatically makes them more qualified than everybody on board but the airline's own pilots.

Yopu have done nothing but assume things not in evidence.

No. I have referenced history throughout. You, however, keep assuming things not in evidence, such as

There would be FOUR sets of radio messages with yelling and cockpit invasion noise if the official lie was true...

You assume. Why do you assume that hijackers are hysterical and on the verge of losing control instead of being deliberate, calm and calculated?

yet all we have is a phony tape of some ' highjacker' that supposedly mistook the radio for an intercom!!

Two assumptions: 1. It's phony. You have no proof that it's phony.
2. That what he did was "supposedly", you have no proof that once in the actual cockpit instead of a simulator some details didn't slip him by.

You have proven NOTHING...

I haven't proven anything, all I've done is disprove your absolutist claims about what is and is not possible given the evidence of history and what has, in fact, happened in the past prior to September 2001 (which, I guess, is proving something after all).

all you have done is to try and get us to believe the impossible:

No, I have tried to open your closed and limited mind. If all the things I have mentioned are true then what happened on September 11, 2001 is also possible.

That FOUR sets of pilots were INSTANTLY taken

Why not. Counter-terrorist forces are capable of co-ordinated operations, why not terrorists?

without any chance to move a muscle...and thats nonsense.

No, it isn't. It's quite easy if you know what you're doing and you trained for it. Which they did. They obviously knew more about air travel pre Sep 11 than you do.

NO ONE has answered this: HOW could FOUR sets of ' highjakers' gain instant and total victory in those cockpits?

Yes, I have repeatedly told you about Dawson's field. If the PFLP could do it, then Al Qaeda could do it.

No fighting by the crew,huh?

No, no fighting by the crew. That was standard operating procedure accross the entire industry worldwide with the exception of a single airline. That has been stated many, many times.

They just all squealed like sissies and fled the cockpits, right?

No. They didn't and your insistence on characterising their actions this way shows that you have no idea how crisis situations are resolved. Airline staff, like certain other professions, are trained to act in a calm manner at all times. Because panic and hysteria spread and panic gets people killed.

The fact that you would write that and this:

no way.

Prove that you're a 13-year old kid who knows nothing about Emergency Services personnel or training.

Burlingame alone would have fought like a tiger rather than give up his plane to some unknown pilot...

You say. Based on zero evidence. Did you personally know the guy? Have you read his psychological profile? Have you sat through a hi-jack drill with him?

and if you add the HUNDREDS of ' inexplicable nomalies' associated with this event to the mix, no intelligent person could assume what you do...it is silly.

Really? You haven't seen much of life if you think "inexplicable anomalies" occur only in a Hollywood screenplay. Did you know that on the day the Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen made the Channel Dash the RN officer in charge of defending the Channel had gone on leave for the weekend and taken with him the only key to the safe that contained the only copy of the official plan of action?

As for your proof;

Let's see, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine hijacked 4 jets to Dawson's Field in a co-ordinated operation, but Al Qaeda was not capable of hijacking 4 jets in a co-ordinated operation. The crews of the jets hijacked by the PFLP all followed their hijackers' instructions, but the crews hijacked by Al Qaeda wouldn't have. No hijacker in history had ever turned their jet into a missile, but the crews would have known that's what Al Qaeda planned to do when they demanded the pilots leave their seats. A pilot who can put his jet on auto-pilot (and whose jet flies 60%+ of the time on auto-pilot) wouldn't put it on auto-pilot before vacating his chair, probably assuming he would be returned to his chair afterward (possibly even being told to do so as such would happen). A pilot witnessing a hijacker holding a blade to the throat of a passenger/crew-member wouldn't vacate his chair to save said person's life. A pilot strapped into a chair in a space a couple of metres square with no warning would be able to react faster to something happening behind him than a hijacker rushing forward through that space with prior intent.

That's the sum total of your theory. You have provided no proof to underpin any of it except to say "I don't believe, it's all too unbelievable." What is unbelievable is that even with these facts in plain evidence you still claim it was impossible.

NO PROOF exists that supports the official lie. None.

What you mean is "Even if God Himself stood in front of me and gave a powerpoint presentation on how it happened, I still wouldn't believe it without corroborating evidence by all the hijackers and the crew with afficavits signed by the Devil and the Pope."

reply to post by weedwhacker


In the mid-seventies America faced a new and escalating crisis, with US commercial jets being hijacked for geopolitical purposes. Determined to gain the upper hand in this new form of aerial warfare, two American multinationals collaborated with the Defense Advanced Projects Agency (DARPA) on a project designed to facilitate the remote recovery of hijacked American aircraft. Brilliant both in concept and operation, “Home Run” [not its real code name] allowed specialist ground controllers to listen in to cockpit conversations on the target aircraft, then take absolute control of its computerized flight control system by remote means.
From that point onwards, regardless of the wishes of the hijackers or flight deck crew, the hijacked aircraft could be recovered and landed automatically at an airport of choice, with no more difficulty than flying a radio-controlled model plane. The engineers had no idea that almost thirty years after its initial design, Home Run’s top secret computer codes would be broken, and the system used to facilitate direct ground control of the four aircraft used in the high-profile attacks on New York and Washington on 11th September 2001.
one source

im still on the search for the tv broadcast where they mentioned this over and over again that airline companies after 9/11 removed these apparatuses cause of the fear for miss use.

as for diss info , i wouldent go that far .

reply to post by zerbot565


Hi, zerbot.

You've found that source (as have many others) and, again...it's a load of bull manure.

It is fiction, urban legend, and (nowadays) an internet viral lie, all rolled into one.

I should know....I flew the darned airplanes!!

I know too much, to relate here, in a post, and without extensive words, and diagrams that would get boringly technical before too long.

But. let me make it as simple as possible (which is risky, as someone almost always reads in, for themselves, what isn't said just so and the inevitable misconceptions sneak in...)

In a nutshell, ANY autopilot (even this nonsense "all 757s and 767s came equipped with remote control" baloney) require normal electrical power to operate...a combination of BOTH 115V AC and 28V DC. This is normally provided by each of the engine's generators (the DC through what's called an 'transformer/rectifier"...or "T/R") and/or the APU, when it is running and used for electrics.

There are certain 'bare bones' emergency electrical sources, depending on airplane model---some are operated via hydraulic motor-pumps (which operate as long as there's sufficient hydraulic pressure) or by popping a unit equipped with a small propellor out into the airstream, to power a generator, or even a hydraulic motor, to power a generator, etc...

And, of course, there are the aircraft batteries (28V directly, and 115VAC through an inverter)...limited capacity and amperage, of course, and considered LAST in the heirarchy of emergency power sources...barest minimum. Captain's basic flight instruments, cockpit lights for nighttime, ONE transceiver, essential relays to operate flaps (gear is manually released, freefalls due to gravity)...etc....

My point is...there is NO "remote control" device or apparatus that could "take away" control from a pilot who is trained on, and knows his airplane's systems. By simply de-powering the normal electircs, he would disable any "remote" device --- and the airplane continues to fly just fine without electrical power. 757 controls are direct-cable-to control surfaces in some cases, and as with the 767 cables to actuator valves mounted in the wheel wells which then port hydraulic fluid to the various control surface actuators. (I warned, it could get technical...but, that's enough for now).

Though I never got rated in the B-777, I understand it has a level of "fly-by-wire" technology similar to the designs that Airbus has adopted for most of its airplane types, but Boeing doesn't include the baby-sitting computer software that Airbus does, to over-ride certain pilot inputs....(Airbus designed their airplanes to be marketed and desirable to many third-world countries, where training and piloting skills might be the lowest common denominator...to try and put it nicely...)

SO....a "take over" of THOSE systems? I suppose it'd be slightly easier than to retro-fit the older Boeings, but still....THOSE systems STILL require normal AC and DC power, with allowances for reduced operational capacity in emergency power situations. Again, I have no training on any of the FBW systems, so just going on my discussions with pilots who HAVE flown them. In order to be deemd "safe" they are, of course, built with a lot of redundancy.

reply to post by weedwhacker


you have no idea what you are talking about. IF you will read the following links, you will see that ALL the necessary systems were in place via software to take over the planes in question. Remember that NONE of the planes alleged to have been involved that day have ever been verified thru seriqal numbers, so the planes that actually struck the Towers may not have been the airliners at all, and that means that the planes used may very well have been outfitted for remote takeover before the mission began.

Since there is NO evidence at all that the planes used in the job were the commercial planes , it is totally possible that they were never used at all. So your whole theory is bunk. You CANNOT answer HOW small men with only tiny boxcutters could take over four (4) cockpits instantly and perfectly without any dramatic reactions from ANY of the flight crews.

You CANNOT expect anyone with a smattering of intelligence to believe that in all four cases , at the perfect monets, all four planes had their cockpit doors open, or that a ' highjacker' could breach the door and take over before even ONE pilot could thumb the radio button and broadcast a message. NO highjack alerts...it is beyond reqason to believe ANY of the far fetched and incredible excuses that have been raised so far.

Uless someone can lay out a LIKELY and PLAUSIBLE scenario in which all FOUR jets, just after takeoff, were INSTANTLY and totally taken, then we MUST believe that remote control is the only answer. YOU have no inside knowledge about the status of flight remote control abilities other than what is known...and that says that it was possible to do so...it has been proven beyond doubt that remote takeovers were already in the system and used by the military.

All that was needed for the 9-11 inside job was access to the codes and programs the Pentagon had...and GUESS WHO was in charge of all that? guess who sold it to the Pentagon? Israel of course!! Who else but the MOSSAD and the NEOCONS in power then could have pulled off a totally controlled and super complicated job like this? No one else on earth could have done it!! It HAD to be an inside job, and all of the evidence points to that, absolutely.


Here is your PROOF...IF you will bother to read it....or you can just claim to be an expert because you are a pilot...but i believe all the evidence rather than your assumptions and guesses.

911review.com...

www.911-strike.com...

911research.wtc7.net...


www.public-action.com...


www.daily.pk...

911review.org...

www.tbrnews.org...


Now, after reading these links, if you still believe that remote control was not possible and that the official story is true, then i might suggest you get some in depth counseling to address possible issues you may have with determining reality and being able to discern obvious facts from available evidence..you might have cognitive issues which prevent you from connecting the facts with the inevitable results.

Let us hope, though, that you absorb the material presented and can connect the dots yourself. It is obvious...it is plain and clear...there is no doubt....four planes cannot be taken in the way we are asked to swallow by the government.

Also, ask yourself this: WHY can't the government even guess how the jets were taken? There has been NO attempt to even hash it out...they are afraid of this subject because it cannot be tricked in the mind....the odds are so extreme that no one accepts it...unless they have an agenda, of course.