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Confessions of an ex-conspiracy-theorist

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posted on Oct, 11 2007 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I also noted after being caught in criminal activities they were not expelled from the Masons which I find suspect.



It is my understanding that you cannot be a freemason if you are a convicted felon. If they were convicted then they shouldn't have been allowed to remain a mason. If the crime you speak of was a misdemeanor then I think technically they could still be a mason, but their character would certainly be called into question.




posted on Oct, 11 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777
You may not mean this, but do you believe masons need secrets because the general population is the same as an oppressive evil organization?


Its not masonic-belief (as far as I know) but my personal belief: Any organization teaching enlightenment must stay a bit in the background on this planet. People dont want it. They will tear it apart, burn books, and nail you to a cross. Fear of the unknown.

I guess you could say I am a bit of a believer in a reverse-conspiracy, meaning that the ones you accuse of conspiracy must stay a bit in the shadows as not to be torn apart by the greedy and ignorant.

A funny incident: I recall holding a speech in front of class when I was a kid. The speech was good. The teacher was so impressed that she started berating the others for not living up to the standards of that speech. I wish she wouldnt have done that, because on my way home a few bullies from class ganged up on me. One of them said: "So you think you are something better, eh? You think you are smart, eh?" Before I could answer I had one of my teeth knocked out and went home bleeding and crying.

I am by no means traumatized from that incident, but it is a good example of why sometimes it is best not to reveal too much in the wrong context.



posted on Oct, 11 2007 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Those who speak against the masons can find this very same form of gang stalking, althought the methods also include more then simple violence. And the masons have people with power and influence and can do this behind the cloak of secrecy.

(you being anybody, not you specifically)
If a person says something that is not well received, but is correct, is it not his obligation to say it even though it will hurt his reputation within society. Is not the need to spread knowledge, even if only a few of the 20 others in the class get it, more important then the judgement of fellow man? Fellow man being the people that in the belief of the person holding the speech are on the wrong side of the argument.

(Note that they are on the wrong side because the truth you speak of, goes against their beliefs, but they are on the wrong side since you believe it correct.)

This also shows a view in the dignity of all man, showing you believe them all capable of the same level of thought that allowed you to reach the conclusions you hold. This assumes offering your belief would be more noble then by implement it from behind the scenes.



posted on Oct, 11 2007 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777

Those who speak against the masons can find this very same form of gang stalking, althought the methods also include more then simple violence. And the masons have people with power and influence and can do this behind the cloak of secrecy.



Well, Ive been a mason for awhile now and seen and talked to a lot of other masons in person and gosh...Ive never gone stalking with them. Nor do we discuss politics or religion (thats prohibited in lodges). Nor do we draw up plans about society. I sure wish some of your conspiracy theory were true...that would make it a lot of fun...then Id be part of da gang dat rulez!




(you being anybody, not you specifically)
If a person says something that is not well received, but is correct, is it not his obligation to say it even though it will hurt his reputation within society. Is not the need to spread knowledge, even if only a few of the 20 others in the class get it, more important then the judgement of fellow man? Fellow man being the people that in the belief of the person holding the speech are on the wrong side of the argument.



Not really. It makes more sense to filter who you are delivering what information to. I will not deliver information on pornography to a child, I will not deliver a speech on techno culture to a group of seniors, I will not deliver not deliver a talk on ice cream to people who are interested in something else.

Let me put it this way: All information is availible anyway, you just have to know how and where to tap into it and be receptive to it. When YOU are ready and willing to perceive something, you will. When you look for something in a sincere manner, you will find it. Its hard to keep real secrets from humans...they are unquenchably curious

Just because there are things YOU dont KNOW, doesnt mean they are secret. Its just, you dont know them....YET.

Look...What do you want to KNOW about freemasonry for sure that you dont?



posted on Oct, 13 2007 @ 03:57 AM
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Illuminati Nonsense

People like me, who disbelieve the Illuminati-Theory pr the Illuminati-Freemasonry-Link are often blamed for "not having looked into the facts" and "not knowing what they are talking about" and "afraid to confront the truth".

To this I can only respond:
I have read most of David Ickes books, a dozen other books with the eye-in-the-triangle on the front cover, the entire freemasonrywatch.org website, ATS for a number of years and numerous websites on the Illuminati. Hell, Ive even read the Fritz Springmeier junk.

So does this constitute "not having looked into the theory"? Not hardly. Ive looked into it long enough. It doesnt add up.



posted on Nov, 12 2007 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Well you are certainly entitled to your own personal opinion. The way you make it sound is it's just like going to a bar and making contacts.

I have a problem with it because it is secretly a religion and mocks Christianity. I also have a problem with it's secretiveness and the temptation for corruption.



posted on Nov, 12 2007 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by spirit7
Well you are certainly entitled to your own personal opinion. The way you make it sound is it's just like going to a bar and making contacts.

I have a problem with it because it is secretly a religion and mocks Christianity. I also have a problem with it's secretiveness and the temptation for corruption.


We are not allowed to talk politics or religion in the lodge. In the light of this fact, how are we supposed to mock christianity? How are we supposed to become corrupt?

Far from mocking christianity, I almost left a few years ago because its almost too christian for me. No lodge meeting can be opened without a bible laying open or without thanking God numerous times.

Furthermore, what are the "secrets" we are supposed to be harbouring? People that call for "total transparency" are calling for big brother to see everything. PRIVACY is not secrecy.

The true purpose of freemasonry is to teach integrity, honour, uprightness.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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I was just responding to the guys who were saying that gang stalking is done by Masons, it seems that there are many people who take part in gang stalking.

www.GangStalkingWorld.com...


Who takes part?


People from all walks of life are being recruited to be the eyes and ears of the state. People from all races, ages, genders. Every sector of society that you can think of is a part of this. Civilian Spies/Snitches include, but are not limited to: General labourers, the wealthy, bikers, drug dealers, drug users, street people, punks, hip hop culture, KKK, black activists, church groups, youth groups, Firemen, police officers, lawyers, health care workers, store keepers, maids, janitors, cable installers, phone repair persons, mail carriers, locksmiths, electricians, etc. There really is no minimum or maximum age range.

Some of these citizens might be recruited via programs such as, Citizen Corp, Weed and Seed, Citizens On Phone Patrol, (COPP), City Watch, T.I.P.S. Many started with good intentions to help patrol and monitor their cities and neighbourhoods. Others are recruited via their families, others at school, others at work. Since every sector, class, race in society takes part, recruitment is multi-faceted.

Many do not understand or care that the end consequence of this harassment protocol is to destroy a person.



I am sure all groups or many groups have a hand in gang stalking. Just wanted to clearify that.


You can also find out more about the subject of gang stalking by going here. www.thehiddenevil.com...



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by EJHoover

What is the difference? A criminal conspiracy is a criminal conspiracy, why do the masons have to be involved? If the requirement to be there is that you are rich and powerful, then what has all of the symbolism etc got to do with it? I can believe that people are conspiring at these levels but I would say that membership of the masons had nothing to do with this.



An evil needs to be put a name on or the people do not take heed of it.

And unnamed group of unnamed powermongers controlling the world is blown of as a conspiracy theory, if you give that group a face and a name, people take notice.

Thats just how human minds work.

A pitty that in this case its inaccurate.

I personaly do believe that some chapters of Freemasonry are up to no good, but since the chapters are all very localized and only slightly connected, you can't blame all of freemasonry for the wrong doings of the few.

Freemasonry is simply victim to typical generalization we tend to do, look at religions (Islam for instance is seen as all evil all the time, while its a few thousand extremists giving everyone a bad picture of a religion that spans billions.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Harassment101
I was just responding to the guys who were saying that gang stalking is done by Masons, it seems that there are many people who take part in gang stalking.


In other words, EVERYONE is a "potential" gang stalker? I hope you can see why this theory is, at least in my case, not taken seriously. When just about everyone is listed as being potentially out to get you, it really swings into paranoia in my opinion.

Think about the massive, huge cover up required for so many people to be "stalked" by so many people. It would be much easier, if such groups existed, to create "accidents" to get rid of the "problems." But of course...that doesn't happen because such groups don't exist.

Freemasons are a particularly bad group to accuse of gang stalking because its so decentralized. Also...I really wouldn't trust "gang stalking world" as being a reliable third party source.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by LowLevelMasonIn other words, EVERYONE is a "potential" gang stalker? I hope you can see why this theory is, at least in my case, not taken seriously. When just about everyone is listed as being potentially out to get you, it really swings into paranoia in my opinion.

Think about the massive, huge cover up required for so many people to be "stalked" by so many people. It would be much easier, if such groups existed, to create "accidents" to get rid of the "problems." But of course...that doesn't happen because such groups don't exist.

Freemasons are a particularly bad group to accuse of gang stalking because its so decentralized. Also...I really wouldn't trust "gang stalking world" as being a reliable third party source.


Since you have taken the time to reply to three of my posts, I hope you take the time to read the research and yes, since the state has many people of all ages, races, classes, etc, being Citizen Informants, you can't just pin it on one group of people. That was the point of my post.

It's good to have an opinion, however it's also nice to have the facts to back your stuff up.

I think I have done that repeatedly, but some people need to hear it a few time for it sink in, so let me try this again.


www.sundayherald.com...



How local councils use anti-terror laws to spy on ordinary people
SCOTTISH COUNCILS ARE USING SURVEILLANCE AND security powers intended to fight terrorism and organised crime in order to spy on ordinary members of the public suspected of petty offences such as breaching the smoking ban, playing music too loudly and dropping litter.

Local authority chiefs have ordered staff to spy on unwitting members of the public some 3579 times since being granted the powers in 2002. Under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (Ripa), councils have the power to secretly film and bug people, use paid spies to inform on a suspect's activities, and even intercept communications data such as mobile and landline use and information about email traffic.

The law was supposed to be introduced to deal with new threats to security in the 21st century such as global terrorism, international organised crime, internet crime and paedophilia. Information on the "misuse" of the Ripa powers by Scottish councils was gathered by the civil liberties pressure group and watchdog organisation, Scotland Against Criminalising Communities (SACC).


SACC researcher Alan Hinnrichs submitted freedom of information requests to all 32 councils. Twenty-six replied, revealing not only the frequent and haphazard use of the powers, but also the bad training and lack of safeguards and oversight that local authorities employ to protect the privacy and human rights of citizens.


No you want me to show you how children are being hired to be C.H.I.S. ofcourse you do.

www.GangSTalkingWorld.com...



A recent article came out in the London Telegraph, saying that Children as young as 8 are being employed by the state as “Covert human intelligence sources” aka Snitches. Targeted Individuals often complain that the harassment is being perpetrated by all members of the community including children.

Children are being hired and used by the government to spy on their neighbors in the Uk. and "being encouraged to photograph or video neighbors guilty of dog fouling, littering or "bin crimes" The article says there are "hundreds of Junior Streetwatchers, aged 8-10 years old, who are trained to identify and report enviro-crime issues such as graffiti and fly-tipping." The adult spies according to authorities are recruited via newspaper ads.


"Other local authorities recruit adult volunteers through advertisements in local newspapers, with at least 4,841 people already patrolling the streets in their spare time.

Some are assigned James Bond-style code numbers, which they use instead of their real names when they ring a special informer's hotline.



My point is, this is happening all over, this was happening all over before the stories started to break in the U.K. the same is happening in other countries.

We have a situation that is close to 1984 at best or Brave New World. For those who will believe, no proof is necessary, for those who will not believe, no proof will be enough.


thehiddenevil.com...


Millions of plain-clothed citizens are now following and harassing people worldwide. The nature of the Gang Stalking and electronic attacks are consistent on a global scale. These groups have the complete support of local, state and federal governments. This includes everything from governmental organizations such as the IRS and federal law enforcement, down to small businesses in the local government.

After a person has been singled out, this network of informants is released on him like a pack of dogs. Large groups of people, consisting of everyone from senior citizens to children, stalk and harass targets in public. In both Russia and Germany, similar networks were fed lies by respected leaders operating on behalf of the state. Targets were labeled threats to national security, or associated with an undesirable group.

The present mass recruitment program appears to be USAonWatch. Presumably, before that it was a variety of state-sponsored informant networks, including the National Neighborhood Watch program. Groups and individual informants with no connection to any state program, also participate in public harassment, and are presumably responsible for the malicious acts committed against targets.

These citizen groups are supported by an intelligence division, which provides ammunition for public harassment by way of surveillance. Targeted people are also attacked with silent, through-the-wall Directed Energy Weapons. The motivation for these groups is most likely accomplished as it was in Germany and Russia--propaganda delivered by trusted authorities. Establishment-controlled organizations provide cover for the Hidden Evil.



[edit on 29-9-2008 by Harassment101]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Harassment101
 


Yes, the research clearly shows you are incorrect. Conveniently, all you do is quote from the same websites that themselves never offer any actual evidence.

Where is this London Telegraph article?
Where are all these ads advertising for "adult stalkers" - I would think it would be easy to find just one since millions are employed!

What you have found is articles and taken them out of context. Think about it - if there was a massive gang stalking issue, why is it these abuses keep getting reported? Because they are not gang stalking. Gang stalking does not exist.

The one single article you quoted is a perfect example of paranoia run awry - this is a few town councils using single individuals (not groups) to spy (not stalk) on terrorist suspects. Further, the article does not state anyone was spied on that was not a terrorism suspect. Nice try, but this is not evidence for "organized gang stalking."

[edit on 29-9-2008 by LowLevelMason]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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In other words, uberarcanist: the appendant degrees do not confer any additional rank or status.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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You just weren't selected as one of the few who get to know/share secrets..

It's freemasonry, it cannot escape itself dude!



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by Harassment101
 


Yes, the research clearly shows you are incorrect. Conveniently, all you do is quote from the same websites that themselves never offer any actual evidence.

Where is this London Telegraph article?
Where are all these ads advertising for "adult stalkers" - I would think it would be easy to find just one since millions are employed!

What you have found is articles and taken them out of context. Think about it - if there was a massive gang stalking issue, why is it these abuses keep getting reported? Because they are not gang stalking. Gang stalking does not exist.

The one single article you quoted is a perfect example of paranoia run awry - this is a few town councils using single individuals (not groups) to spy (not stalk) on terrorist suspects. Further, the article does not state anyone was spied on that was not a terrorism suspect. Nice try, but this is not evidence for "organized gang stalking."

[edit on 29-9-2008 by LowLevelMason]


Since you seem to think that books, newspapers, and historical facts are not actualy proof, what do you consider to be actual proof, because for some of us, that is what we use as actual proof. Maybe you use a wijja board or something. I don't know.

For the london telegraph article, why don't you click on the link I provided for you, you know the link that you ignored in the other thread, and said that it had no relavance to gang stalking. That link. Yeah.

The abuses with the anti-terror laws were happening, but were not being reported. Just like abuses in the Catholic church were happening for over 50 years and not getting reported, just because something does not get reported by main stream media, does not mean that it is not happening.

What we not have is the abuses that Gang Stalking targets were reporting being now verified by the media, and everything that we have said, is starting to be backed up. People didn't believe that stalking 24/7 was possible, there are now three families who are making these very public claims. I am not saying these families were gang stalking, but they are proof that 24/7 stalking is possible. The kind that Targeted Individuals talk about.

The articles, which again you clearly are not reading, all state very clearly that people are being spied upon for anti-social behaviours, (do you know what that is?) Littering, small things. But they are putting these people under terror investigations, using R.I.P.A. laws.

The articles clearly show that families were being spied on in this way, and it's disgraceful for you to come here and belittle the violations of privacies they suffered. These people were not terroists, and they were not suspected of being terrorists, but they were put under what are normally terrorist investigations.

Using the following, being followed around in public, some had email and mail opened, some were audio and video monitored, some had these Covert Human Intellegent Sources move into their council neighbourhood to spy on them. Etc.

Now if you want to continue to mock and disregard what proof has been provided, claiming to have gone over it, when you clearly have not, then you are welcome to do so, but many are moving forward. Now that we know that the abuses are taken place and proven, targets now need to find out what they can do.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Skyfloating, while I admire your thoughtfulness always.... I must strongly disagree. It's one thing to think you know something through second or third or fourth hand knowledge, but it's another thing to directly experience it. I've had very different experiences with freemasonry than you, and it led me to believe that freemasonry has malcontent at it's core... whether or not it was originally intended for that purpose is not known to me. I'm not going to go into details because from writing, the reader can judge only based on how the words relate to his own experience... and most people have not to my knowledge experienced any of this to any degree that is noticeable to them.

Also... the conspiracy angle... I'm not sure about reptilians or any specifics... but I have been violently confronted by people I thought were close to me about speaking publicly about these matters. I am just a simple guy putting pieces together the best I can, and I've been assaulted at gunpoint, injected with drugs against my will, and severely beaten because I refused to give in.

So... I'll repeat. It's one thing to search for knowledge in texts and conspiracy books, and take it as gospel. It's another thing to use parts and pieces of knowledge to view the bigger picture, and in turn get to experience the shadowy opposition in very real ways.

Why isn't this stuff being discussed and realized more often if it is indeed true? Fear and denial, and if you get too close to the truth, you will find that people you've never suspected of doing you harm will suddenly turn on you. You don't need a cabal of men in black suits and shades driving around to knock down your door and threaten you, because the truth of the matter is that the opposition to truth is SO pervasive, that your own personal relationships will be used against you. It is the worst kind of psychological warfare... using the people you trust against you, in order to make you feel helpless and alone.

Believe it or not. I am not insane, but I have become very close to being so (in the socially accepted sense of whatever that word actually means). The only way to make it through is denial for the most part. Deny to yourself what has happened, and use the fact that it is SO unbelievable that people you thought you knew...even potentially your own family... have uttered these words and committed these actions against you, all because you are trying to find truth, to tell yourself that you MUST have mispercieved the situation on multiple occasions. I tell myself I am crazy in order to get through the day, although I truly at my core feel that I am perfectly sound of mind.

Reality as we see it now is a forced existence. Of course there is a conspiracy against us, Sky. Civilization and the destruction of the very planet would not be happening if some force wasn't using US against US, like a virus or a parasite does when infecting a host. We're the only creature we know of that exists completely out of balance with nature.
I stated in a previous thread that some tribes that were discovered in remote parts of the world didn't even understand the concept of "I" or "you". The ego... the piece of ourselves that makes us think we are more worthy of attention or whathaveyou than the rest... is not a natural part of our existence here on Earth. If it is not a natural part of our Earthly being... then where does this viral way of thinking and being come from?

We can't ignore the negative things. Your thread about "Everything is getting better" is an example of ignoring the ills that befall us. In our current form, there is good and there is bad, and if we ignore the existence of the bad, it doesn't just go away.

Blaming ourselves is ignoring the way things ARE in our current experience. We may all be one mind and an illusory dream at our heart, BUT the way of existence now is one of separation where external affects internal, where one affects the other... where pain hurts, where happiness is pleasant, where people use people against the overall well-being of people.
Is this logical? Is this a naturally occurring system of life and death/strong balancing weak? Or has the balance been off-set?

This is the heart of what the "conspiracy" is about. I do not know the origin of where it all come from, but I have seen enough to know that an overwhelming conspiracy exists...and humans are NOT entirely to blame. I will offer you no evidence, because if you do not experience and know through experience, you will not understand, and therefore it is easy to dismiss.

So, I respectfully yet wholeheartedly disagree with your assumptions.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Harassment101
Since you seem to think that books, newspapers, and historical facts are not actualy proof, what do you consider to be actual proof, because for some of us, that is what we use as actual proof. Maybe you use a wijja board or something. I don't know.


Now your just lying to yourself. You don't have any books, newspapers, or facts. You have google searches for "stalking" that you have taken out of context, which explicitly refer to single (not gang) surveillance (not stalking) of terrorist suspects (not "targeted individuals" which seems to BE EVERYONE). Oh, you also have news articles of people playing distasteful pranks on their own friends and family, not actual stalkers.


Originally posted by Harassment101
For the london telegraph article, why don't you click on the link I provided for you, you know the link that you ignored in the other thread, and said that it had no relavance to gang stalking. That link. Yeah.


Quite correct, has nothing to do with your non-existent "gang stalking."


Originally posted by Harassment101
The abuses with the anti-terror laws were happening, but were not being reported. Just like abuses in the Catholic church were happening for over 50 years and not getting reported, just because something does not get reported by main stream media, does not mean that it is not happening.


Abuses of anti-terror laws may be occurring, but that does not make "gang stalking" real. The people who believed in this on your own websites claim to have been "stalked" for 20 or 30 years, before such laws even existed. Just because you claim that there is a massive conspiracy to stalk people doesn't mean its happening. You need to provide proof. You have provided none.


Originally posted by Harassment101
What we not have is the abuses that Gang Stalking targets were reporting being now verified by the media, and everything that we have said, is starting to be backed up. People didn't believe that stalking 24/7 was possible, there are now three families who are making these very public claims. I am not saying these families were gang stalking, but they are proof that 24/7 stalking is possible. The kind that Targeted Individuals talk about.


Nothing "you" have said has been verified by the media, or with any evidence what so ever. A news story of a girl playing a prank on her family is not evidence of gang stalking.


Originally posted by Harassment101
The articles, which again you clearly are not reading, all state very clearly that people are being spied upon for anti-social behaviours, (do you know what that is?) Littering, small things. But they are putting these people under terror investigations, using R.I.P.A. laws.


You clearly are not reading these articles. I am. Very clearly these articles never provide any evidence for "gang stalking."


Originally posted by Harassment101
The articles clearly show that families were being spied on in this way, and it's disgraceful for you to come here and belittle the violations of privacies they suffered. These people were not terroists, and they were not suspected of being terrorists, but they were put under what are normally terrorist investigations.


Actually, its sick that you are leading on people who are probably suffering from a mental illness by furthering their delusions. People who believe this need professional help, and its morally wrong of you to continue to enforce their delusions.


Originally posted by Harassment101
Using the following, being followed around in public, some had email and mail opened, some were audio and video monitored, some had these Covert Human Intellegent Sources move into their council neighbourhood to spy on them. Etc.


None of which proves anything that they are paranoid. All of that can be explained with absolutely normal reasons that have nothing to do with gang stalking. Paranoia makes people piece together unrelated events to find a conspiracy.


Originally posted by Harassment101
Now if you want to continue to mock and disregard what proof has been provided, claiming to have gone over it, when you clearly have not, then you are welcome to do so, but many are moving forward. Now that we know that the abuses are taken place and proven, targets now need to find out what they can do.


You seem to be under the impression that anytime anyone disagrees with you that they are mocking you - this is probably why you also think you are being gang stalked. Your stringing together events that have no relation. You have provided no proof, and all evidence points that people who believe this sort of thing need professional help.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


This is the behavior expected of a Mason? Calling people "sick" for suggesting something as an alternative to the vague definitions of mental illness?

Do masons usually steal people's work and present it as their own? Because this happened to me. The band that I jammed with for a while were all Master Masons and above... (punk rocker Masons? Uhhh something doesn't gel with that combination...)... and they preached all this claimed possession of wisdom and morality, and then they cease contact with me and steal my song ideas? Wow. The Brotherhood of plagiarists and hypocrites?

Skyfloating... I hope I make myself clear. Now that you are admittedly a Mason of relatively high degree, everything you say is now suspect. With respect... how could it not be? You're dealing with a conspiracy theory site with very serious seekers of truth, and yet you have Masons here who took an oath of secrecy claiming that it's "no big deal"? Uhhh yes okay I'll just blindly believe that, Sky. Do you see the problem I'm having with this? Oaths of secrecy and people moderating and gaining the trust of conspiracy theorists don't really gel either... at least the concept doesn't gel, anyway. Seems kind of ironic, actually.

Another thing... Freemason moderators at ATS? Are any of the admins Freemasons or members of Societies/Guilds?

Tricky tricky tricky. Who do you trust these days? I've learned that the best person one can trust is themselves, and even then, it's never 100%.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by dunwichwitch
This is the behavior expected of a Mason? Calling people "sick" for suggesting something as an alternative to the vague definitions of mental illness?


I am sorry that you find it offensive that a "mason" would find the abuse of the mentally ill sick. I think you will find that lots of people, including non-masons, would find it sick as well. I find it sick not because I am a mason, but because I am a human being and I have family that suffer from mental wellness problems. I detest when people take advantage of it, leading them on and furthering their delusions - but thats called being moral.


Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Do masons usually steal people's work and present it as their own? Because this happened to me. The band that I jammed with for a while were all Master Masons and above... (punk rocker Masons? Uhhh something doesn't gel with that combination...)... and they preached all this claimed possession of wisdom and morality, and then they cease contact with me and steal my song ideas? Wow. The Brotherhood of plagiarists and hypocrites?


Somehow I always hear the same stories from those who enjoy disparaging freemasons. They "knew" someone(s) who were masons, and they believe someone(s) did something they perceive as being bad, therefore freemasons are bad. You should check your assumptions:

(1) How do you know these people were masons? Even though its relatively easy to join, lots of people still claim to be a mason and were not, or they believe that because their father was a mason they were. Anyone proclaiming possession of wisdom due to freemasonry would be going against the teachings of freemasonry, and thus are not likely freemasons as you believe.

(2) Has it occurred to you that you that their "stealing" of your work was things they did because they were bad people, and had nothing to do with freemasons? (assuming they were, which from your description is not likely). Freemasonry itself teaches me that who I am is LASTLY a freemason, I am first a man, a christian, a student, etc. Freemasonry comes last, and the fraternity likes it that way. Everything else comes first. So why is it you don't rave against these punk rockers who stole whatever you think they stole, instead of believing it has something to do with their identity as masons, if they were masons?


Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Skyfloating... I hope I make myself clear. Now that you are admittedly a Mason of relatively high degree, everything you say is now suspect. With respect... how could it not be? You're dealing with a conspiracy theory site with very serious seekers of truth, and yet you have Masons here who took an oath of secrecy claiming that it's "no big deal"? Uhhh yes okay I'll just blindly believe that, Sky. Do you see the problem I'm having with this? Oaths of secrecy and people moderating and gaining the trust of conspiracy theorists don't really gel either... at least the concept doesn't gel, anyway. Seems kind of ironic, actually.


I just read up and..no where does Skyfloating proclaim to be a "relatively" high degree mason. There is no high degree mason - relatively or otherwise. You really shouldn't have such a problem with secrets. Everyone keeps them. Claiming secrecy is bad because its secret is beyond simplistic. You should be concerned with the substance of the secrets. Goody for you, all of our secrets are on google. Read them, and you shall find nothing wrong.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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Hello dunwhichwhich. I forget all about this old thread and just noticed its back up in the list.

I respect that your first-hand-experience is at odds with my first-hand-experiences. Thats not unusual, considering each life is unique and different.


That said: Ive been a member of a lot of groups and organizations and even cults. Why? Curiosity. Learning. Discerning truth from falsehood. I cant learn anything about various organizations by sitting in front of the Internet. I have to go there, be there to see what they are all about.



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