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Confessions of an ex-conspiracy-theorist

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posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


Well the original question was "show me where in the book this is said" I showed where.

You responded with it is no longer doctrine or is out of context.

Context can be what every you chose, especially in worlds with many symbols. It comes down to credibility and what people choose to believe.




posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777

Well the original question was "show me where in the book this is said" I showed where.


No, you didn't. The original comment was "It is written in the book that no one under the 32nd degree is to become aware of what transpires at 32nd degree and up."

The quotes that you gave did not back up the claim.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 10:06 AM
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Reply to above post

Your right, I interpret his comment as follows. 'lower level masons are not aware of the truths of higher level masons.' This is not exactly what he said, I thought it was a fair interpretation.

But you are correct, he did not quote the book, and my interpretation requires paraphrasing.

I will agree the book does not say what he said, can you agree it does say some truths are hidden from lower level masons?

[edit on 10-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777


I will agree the book does not say what he said, can you agree it does say some truths are hidden from lower level masons?



No, because I do not think that is an accurate interpretation of Pike. I'll attempt to explain why, and you can take it for whatever it's worth.

Pike did not consider obtaining a degree in Masonry to be equivalent with gaining knowledge and understanding. It's what we do when we *leave* the Lodge, and go out into the world, that's important.

Here in the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, we use Pike's versions of the Scottish Rite degree rituals. All of the degrees in this jurisdiction were revised by Pike. Some only a couple of times, others, multiple times. He would stage a degree, and if not satisfied with it, would revise it again until he perfected it. Since Pike's death, it has been revised and updated a couple more times.

After revising his second version, Pike decided to publish the first version for the purpose of study. These rituals were published under the title of "The Magnum Opus", and is still in print, published by Kessinger, and available from Barnes and Noble. Since Pike published them himself, before "Morals and Dogma" was even written, it would not be accurate to say that "lower level Masons" could not gain access to "some truths" in the higher degrees. Indeed, as Pike was himself was a Mason, he knew perfectly well that there was no such thing as "lower level Masons". He simply knew that some Masons understood the deeper meanings of the fraternity's symbolism and ceremonial forms, while others did not. For those who did not, Pike attempted to educate by writing over 30 books on the subject, as well as visiting Lodges across the country and giving lectures.

However, Pike also saw a problem in Masonry, which still persists to this day. There is a tendency for many Masons to ignore the teachings and philosophy of the fraternity, and treat it as a civic club. Pike was also critical of various forms of frivolity and hazing that were being introduced into the ceremonies in some Lodges, which in turn were transforming intiations into a joke. For these people, Pike had little sympathy and did not consider them to be worthy of the exalted philosophy and morality of high Masonry. In fact, he didn't believe they should be Masons at all, and should leave Masonry to those who were serious about it (i.e., the "Adepts" and "Princes of Masonry").

Now, everyone has their opinion, and Pike was no exception. Personally, I think there is value and importance in what he had to say. Others may disagree. But regardless, Pike knew that receiving a degree, in and of itself, was completely useless unless a brother actually took the time to study it, and practice the virtues contained in its teachings.

As for any truths hidden, Pike himself states in the ritual of the 28° that Masonry contains no esoteric or occult knowledge that isn't already available to the general public, and it is very possible for non-Masons to become more expert at the philosophies of the Kabalah than any Mason.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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I try to remain very skeptical about these issues even though I actively seek out new info. I have been fooled before of course and had to rethink my position. I have even doubted the reality of this conspiracy from time to time and put it aside to focus on other things, but it always cropped back up.

I immediately knew 9/11 was an "inside job" because I'd read "Behold a Pale Horse", and it is painfully obvious by what has occurred since then that there is a great deal of validity to this conspiracy literature.

The Real ID Act and microchipping the population

The North American Union

The Patriot Act

The War on Terror

These are all the tools being put into place to make this transition to a one-world order. That much is very clear to me.

However, I still do not know who exactly is behind it all or what the true purpose is. I suspect it has much to do with either aliens or the Annunaki or both as much of it seems to be centered around Jerusalem and its historical significance, and it seems that most of the secret societies have come under the umbrella of a singular power and that is likely the Vatican and the top tier of the Society of Jesus, ie. the Superior Jesuit General.

Of course, if this is true, it begs the question, who truly appoints the Jesuit General and gives him orders?

Mm, could it be... SATAN?!

That of course begs more questions as to the nature and origin of such a being should it truly exist. This is the direction my research is currently taking me.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Redge777
 


specifically to debunk your "no more secrets" worldview:

Humans nature is competitive. Imagine you are about to play a competitive game with someone. Now imagine telling him all of your moves and game-tricks before starting to play. The game would neither be fun for you, nor for your opponent.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


In your analogy masons are one side in the game. who are on the other side?

This assumes Masons are competing with the rest of society and keep secrets for this purpose.

If it is just to make the game fun, what is the game you speak of?



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Redge777

In your analogy masons are one side in the game. who are on the other side?

This assumes Masons are competing with the rest of society and keep secrets for this purpose.

If it is just to make the game fun, what is the game you speak of?



its not "this assumes masons are..." but "YOU assume masons are...".

I only used the game analogy...you added the assumption.

I did this to point out that you will quickly add interpretation/assumption to an innocent analogy


The Game, one might speculate, is the game of life. The Game of Life has many currents, undercurrents, subcurrents, sidecurrents that compete on "what life is", "how life is to be lived" etc. All sides of the game are welcome (imo).

Maybe masons are one side of a game and tyrants the other (though I would guess that you would see it just the other way around).

But thats not what we are talking here. What we are talking is your repeated call that secrecy (and with it competition, gaming) should be removed from society and, as you put it, "we need full transparency".

I know a government that prohibits secrets by its citizens and calls for total transparency. Its the North Korean government. It wishes to see everything. And no playing allowed either.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:20 PM
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Quiz: What is the source of most anti-masonic books?

1. The Catholic Church?


2. Fundamentalist Christians?


3. Muslims?


4. Nazis and Nazi Sympathizers?


5. Conspiracy-Researchers?


6. Freemasons themselves who wish to make themselves look bigger than they are?


Take your guess.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:23 PM
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id have to go with #2 if I could only pick 1.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I would guess

6 Masonic teachings
Although I modified the entry to refine it to my bias.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Redge777

In your analogy masons are one side in the game. who are on the other side?

This assumes Masons are competing with the rest of society and keep secrets for this purpose.

If it is just to make the game fun, what is the game you speak of?



its not "this assumes masons are..." but "YOU assume masons are...".

I only used the game analogy...you added the assumption.

We are in a thread talking about secrets and masons, I do not think it is a jump to make that contextual assignment. You must be kidding. I have stated many times it is the secret and have the same feelings about other secret groups.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Maybe masons are one side of a game and tyrants the other (though I would guess that you would see it just the other way around).

Wow! if that is the case, open up those doors, billions of people around the world would agree that is a noble cause, no need for secrecy at all there.

It might be the case, I would not know it is secret, as I have said.

I only see the historical patterns of secrecy protecting the actions of those that hold the secrets.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
I know a government that prohibits secrets by its citizens and calls for total transparency. Its the North Korean government. It wishes to see everything. And no playing allowed either.

We went through this discussion already, there is a difference between transparency of those who have influence over society and the privacy of individuals that do not influence outside there group.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:34 PM
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The answer is 2....though Ive speculated about 6 sometimes.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 04:37 PM
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Its a curiosity that the groups with the most blood on their hands will often accuse others of conspiracy and evil.

Point one finger at another and youll have four of your fingers pointing at yourself.



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 08:38 PM
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Some of the masons here asked for the secrets of the Catholic church be revealed, in at least one post someone mentioned the Catholic church had secrets also. (may have been another thread)

700 year old secrets of the Non Heretical status of the Knights Templar falsly convicted were reported as released.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 10-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 10 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Unless you are a halfhand!!!!

fun reference to Berek Halfhand




[edit on 10-10-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Oct, 11 2007 @ 04:54 AM
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Oh, and entirely by the way,

once the totalitarian NWO you propose, comes into full effect, you will be one of the first ones to value secrecy and secret communication.



posted on Oct, 11 2007 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I don't think so, I don't think I would use secrecy, but I may be being idealistic. I understand your point, and I could imagine a situation like in 1940 Germany where people hid those who were sought out. I think you are saying a good organization, if oppressed or surrounded by a evil or bad one, the secrecy is justified.

You may not mean this, but do you believe masons need secrets because the general population is the same as an oppressive evil organization?

This also leads back to the ones in power needing transparency, so in your example I would want the NWO to be transparent, then no one under them would need secrecy. Who ever had the best system for the most people would have there system adopted.



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