Confessions of an ex-conspiracy-theorist

reply to post by Blaine91555


There is the myth and appearance of secrecy but I dont think there is one single piece of masonic writing that cannot be found somewhere on the Internet or be ordered in a bookshop.

Furthermore, secrecy is not necessarily evil but can add to the fun and excitement of discovery. Sometimes I even wish there were more secrecy for that very reason. When my parents kept my Christmas gifts secret from me they were not doing that for evil purposes but to spark my imagination and teach me patience.

Originally posted by uberarcanist

OK-I'm probably totally going to get pounced upon this, but bear in mind that what I'm about to post is speculation and nothing.

Some Masons have said that Masonry originated in the time of Noah. See the article "Dispersion of Mankind" in the link I provide below. Now, in the Bible, Noah was one of the few survivors of a cataclysm that is said to have occurred because of man's hubris. Part of this hubris was said to have been interbreeding with godlike entities. Is it not inconceivable that these godlike beings could have, in fact, been aliens? Furthermore, I think it is at least conceivable that humanity could have had a close and open relationship with extraterrestrials in the distant past which ended in disaster. I believe that it is possible, following the disastrous event, that the aliens formed a new understanding with a select few humans. Perhaps a secret covenant was made in which they would guide these humans on a more enlightened path as long as the humans threw up a smokescreen about the pre-catastrophe days and permitted the rest of mankind to only slowly figure out the truth about extraterrestrials.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by uberarcanist]

no, you are not going to get pounced on about this. I admit to having entertained similar thoughts as I am a believer in ancient astronauts. Unfortunately I havent met any other brethren who believe in ancient astronauts though.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


interesting post, but let me offer my idea on it:

I observe that there are many competing groups, societies, systems of thinking and acting, competing goals. The competitive nature of humans kind of contradicts the idea of "one grand conspiracy throughout the ages".

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I would also like to know why seemingly highly intelligent CTs such as Jim Marrs still insist that there is a masonic conspiracy. A corporate boardroom or a bilderberg meeting is confidential enough without the need for Masonry as a cover. The secrecy provided by masonry in the past just isn't needed today.

Maybe I should ask Mr. Marrs in his forum why he believes in this conspiracy. He mentions it in Rule by Secrecy but I've never heard him expand on it, he has never explained how this secrecy mecanism would actually work.

Good point. I think the reason he hasnt expanded on it is because he has matured out of that stage of research. New time conspiracy-theorists often write about and take over what they have read in other conspiracy-books.

Having read a lot I can say that I eventually got disgusted at how many others just copy from what other authors said, until a certain viewpoint was repeated so often that its truth was taken for granted.

As far as I can tell, Mr. Marrs now focusses on the stuff that is more real.

Originally posted by jmilla
the freemasons are not that important in the NWO conspiracy, as its not necessarily a secret organization staging the coup on society, but the corporate elite. .

That seemed to have been your first post at ATS. I like the quality of it very much and the point made that freemasons were actually trying to protect the public from tyranny.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

When my parents kept my Christmas gifts secret from me they were not doing that for evil purposes but to spark my imagination and teach me patience.

First I hear the common people are not ready for the truth. Now you say we are the children they are the adults. I would let this pass, but you slipped and used a very common analogy that is used in the elite ruling class.

Quite often they refer to us as the children they are the adults that need to decide what is best for us and entertain our simple growing minds.

Furthermore, what gives the elites the right to pass out the gifts made from the labor of all the common people.

OK if it really is an analogy then you are saying the secrecy of the elites is to excite the regular people? Anticipation for some gift? The only gift I see is consolidation of wealth and it is not given to the common people. One more thing, adults love their children, something I don't see in your Mason analogy, how about an extra bowl of goulash for the slave, that's a little closer

And the reason we group Masons with the Elites is they use the same mechanism (secrecy and supporting other members) to move a single group up above the rest, to make themselves our parents.

Whoops you let that one slip out.

[edit on 28-9-2007 by Redge777]

reply to post by Redge777


my analogy was to point out two things: not all secrecy is motivated by evil (as some people here claim) and secondly, my personal enjoyment with secrecy which affords me the opportunity to uncover it, to look behind the curtain. This is more about my personal fascination with secrecy and the uncovering.

you almost sound like you think that I am discouraging people to look at conspiracies and am therefore part of a conspiracy

furthermore "the ruling elite" has become a catchphrase that many readers automatically associate with evil-doers. This is something I object to. Yes, there is corruption and evil in high places...but in low places there is too. poverty and powerlessness can corrupt just as much as wealth and power can.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

There is the myth and appearance of secrecy but I dont think there is one single piece of masonic writing that cannot be found somewhere on the Internet or be ordered in a bookshop.

that's not true!

U2U sent.

reply to post by scientist


Thanks for the U2U. You got me!

Seriously, my statement was exaggerated. I will re-phrase:

"Many rituals and writings by masons can be found on the internet and in bookshops. And the way internet is progressing someday almost everything can be found. This doesnt mean that one can properly de-cipher what was written though."

reply to post by Redge777


I have to love paranoids. When you question one of their conspiracy theories they quickly conclude that you are part of the conspiracy.

Originally posted by Redge777
the reason we group Masons with the Elites is they use the same mechanism (secrecy and supporting other members) to move a single group up above the rest, to make themselves our parents.

i agree. i also do not see how this is any different than a company, or a family, or a sports team. They all make some things public, and some things private. Even a close circle of friends, which is ultimately what you are talking about.

I mean, there are golf clubs in Florida that probably have more corruption and more secrets than most of the lodges in the country.

Originally posted by Kacen
Yeah, it sure is a bad example....I just don't understand why you can't include women in it?

Because Freemasonry is a fraternity. Fraternities are male-only, just as sororities are female-only.

Originally posted by Skyfloating


Give it another 100 years and that limitation too will pass.

That would not possible for several reasons, not the least of which is the Master Mason's obligation. Allowing women is not something that a Grand Lodge could just vote on. By doing so, they would all be in violation of their obligations, as well as the Landmarks, and would automatically become clandestine.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


Let's not forget that G. Washingon was the richest American in his time, so it's difficult for me to believe that he was really benevolent.

Why would Washington's wealth bar him from being benevolent. Wealth, in the right hands, has the opposite effect: it allows a benevolent to person to do even more good. Take a look at J.C. Penney, for example (also a Brother Mason). His wealth allowed him the means to give millions to charitable purposes.

However, he did give his support to the Bavarian Illuminati, so it is possible that he had also read Rousseau's works and also believed in freedom and equality for everyone. (as expressd in the Constitution/Bill of Rights)

Washington actually spoke out in opposition to the Illuminati, but I personally believe that this was due to his not truly investigating the matter, and going on hearsay. Jefferson, on the other hand, spoke out in support of both Weishaupt and the Illuminati as a whole.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

That would not possible for several reasons, not the least of which is the Master Mason's obligation. Allowing women is not something that a Grand Lodge could just vote on. By doing so, they would all be in violation of their obligations, as well as the Landmarks, and would automatically become clandestine.

If that turns out to be the case in 100 years I will give you 100 Dollars.

Originally posted by uberarcanist


That being said, I think your original post loses a lot of force when one considers the high probability that you are a low-level Mason (and don't give me any of this disingenuous b.s. about Third Degree being the end-all and be-all of Masonry). Don't come across as having it all "figured out" when you have so much farther to go.

I know this wasn't directed to me, but please allow me to respond. You're right that being a Third Degree Mason is not the end-all, be-all of Masonry. But a Third Degree Master Mason is *not* a "low level" Mason. The degree is called "Master" for a reason, i.e., at least theoretically, when a Brother reaches the Third Degree, he is not a "low level" in the Craft, but a Master of it.

As I often tell new members when they ask about the higher degrees, those degrees can make one a *better* Mason, but cannot make one *more* of a Mason. The degree of Master Mason is "as much" of a Mason as one can ever be. The additional degrees are good, and I strongly recommend them. But if a Brother chooses not to take them, he is still a Master Mason.

Originally posted by Skyfloating


If that turns out to be the case in 100 years I will give you 100 Dollars.

I probably won't be around. Care to make it 5 bucks for 5 years?

Seriously though, fraternities by definition are male societies, just as sororities are female ones. There are also other points. I already mentioned the obligation, which would have to be violated in order to admit women; there are also esoteric reasons that women cannot be initiated into Masonry. I would certainly support an esoteric order that celebrated the female mysteries for women, as the mysteries of Isis did many years ago. Pike's idea for bringing the Rite of Adoption into usage in the USA was a good one IMO, but never caught on.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Redge777

 

my analogy was to point out two things: not all secrecy is motivated by evil (as some people here claim) and secondly, my personal enjoyment with secrecy which affords me the opportunity to uncover it, to look behind the curtain. This is more about my personal fascination with secrecy and the uncovering.

you almost sound like you think that I am discouraging people to look at conspiracies and am therefore part of a conspiracy

furthermore "the ruling elite" has become a catchphrase that many readers automatically associate with evil-doers. This is something I object to. Yes, there is corruption and evil in high places...but in low places there is too. poverty and powerlessness can corrupt just as much as wealth and power can.

I don't know, so I can't say if you are part of some conspiracy, only that you belong to an organization where you swore to lie to keep it secret. Your 'that's a secret' thing just shreds credibility in my opinion.

I understand your one part of the meaning of your analogy, my examination still stands not just from your statement but from a wide range of experiences.

We agree on something, I imagine winning the lottery, first thing I think is a beach and easy life, something out of one of those Corona Beer commercials. I understand why people of power slip to this temptation of selfishness, I do not judge them, lets help them resist the temptation by the following. I say lets make our system first more transparent, and second lets even the playing field altering the one that currently moves money to the top, and protects those in secret.

Where we strongly disagree is on secrecy, sure I understand the principle of exciting new things in an organization. But do I believe that is all that happens, no. I agree it is not a cabal with secret rituals and handshakes, strike that. I agree it is not a cabal bent on evil secret domination of the common people, but it is one where they think they are better, and through connections and secrecy protect members above others. If a group accepts they are better then another, they have psychological reason to do many things against the good of all society.

I can hear it now, but we are helping them because they can't rule themselves we are the enlightened. self delusion for rationalization of action, not buying it.

If your organization was an enlightened one, you would have a membership that had equal membership across the income, and racial brackets of America.

Also many people in power, lets say people who are at an advantages part of society, argue their points knowing quite well they are lying, they believe having the right counter to an argument is the same as their argument being morally sound, or even honest. I also know this from experience. so please remember anything we say is just words on a screen. It is how the world operates that we should base our opinions on. Or a logical and moral argument that can defend a reason for the visible actions in our society.

Originally posted by Redge777


I can hear it now, but we are helping them because they can't rule themselves we are the enlightened. self delusion for rationalization of action, not buying it.

Who ever said that? Wasn't it primarily the Masons who established a form a government here so that people *could* rule themselves?

If your organization was an enlightened one, you would have a membership that had equal membership across the income, and racial brackets of America.

Are you insinuating that we do *not* have a membership that extends across income and racial brackets?

Money and power actually does equate to evil.

Heres how ::: If you have alot of money, and there is ppl starving and dying in the world, and you could stop it , if only you bought them some food. But you dont, because your greedy, and Evil.

See. Thats why Money and Power actually DO equate to evil in todays world.

Now, if no one was Starving to death (Especially the fact we have ppl starving in america right now) maybe then i could consider the having a grip of $ was not evil.

But the pure fact that theres starving ppl, and the rich ppl do NOTHING to stop that, in fact they spread propaganda to demonize the starving ppl, well that just goes to show you that Money and Power ARE evil.

what did jesus say to the rich man who asked him how to get into Heaven?

He said give all your money away to the poor ppl. The rich man couldnt handle that , so he kept his money and let the poor ppl starve.

Perfect example of Evil...

So yes, its a Fact , that having alot of $ and power makes you very very evil. Based on the pure fact you do nothing to stop the wrongs of the world when you have the POWER to do so.

And dont give me any BS, it would be easy to feed the hungery.

So, to the OP, your 100% wrong. Money and Power is the Definition of evil (in todays world and set of circumstances)

And all those "charitys" are Fake. Heres why.

I see poor homeless ppl, and malnourished children everyday.

But ive NEVER seen any "charity" go feed them/help them.
Probably because those charitys are totally fake. Granted 1% of them actually hands out food, but where is the other 99%???? Its fraud i tell you.
Fraud.
I just have NEVER seen charitys actually give anything to poor folks, ever.

I dont really care if you argue with me because I know my own expierance in life and i know what ive seen. So go ahead and try to tell me theres no such thing as straving ppl (even in America) go ahead and try to convince me the "good charitys" are out there working real hard to spread the wealth.

Go ahead and try, you will just beat your head agianst a brick wall.
The facts are obvious to anyone who actually looks around.