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Confessions of an ex-conspiracy-theorist

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posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Alright, alright I guess I can shed some light on the subject of secret societies and offer clarifications to both sides of the heated argument at ATS because I have been firmly rooted on both sides of the subject at different times of my life.

As a teenager I stumbled upon conspiracy theory books and devoured them with the fascination a teenager has for mysteries, secrets and cover-ups. It all made sense to me, I saw the puzzle pieces fit together, I believed myself to know about things most people dont know about. I read a lot of books about the "freemasons conspiracy" and believed much of it. My imagination ran wild with theories of my own. I pointed out symbolism to friends of mine. I wrote essays about the Illuminati and the world conspiracy.

In my twenties, my interest in conspiracy-theory waned when a few things began to dawn on me:

* The conspiracy-literature and especially the anti-masonic literature was published by sources I find questionable (fundamentalist christians and muslims, nazis and communists)

* That having money and power doesnt equate evil

* That there must be so many competing factions that the "one grand conspiracy" is probably not true.

But it was when I got to know someone who was a freemason and actually joined freemasonry, that my belief in these type of conspiracy theories totally crumbled. In light of the actual facts, none of it could be upheld.
I climbed the ranks to Master Mason and then on to several side degrees.

At first I realized freemasonry was neither a grand conspiracy, nor was it a path to enlightenment. Initially it was a path to boredom. In my junior years there I even caught myself being bored at the mundaneness of it all. No plots. No satanism. No politics. No business deals. Just a few rituals and dinners and drinking wine and beer with pals. Just an excuse to get away from my girlfriend.

I now look at these conspiracy-theories and think: "Wow. How could I ever have believed all that nonsense?"

As I grew a bit more mature, I began appreciating freemasonry for what it really is: A system of gentle education to become a better person and a place to meet friends in an unsual atmosphere outside of daily life. Nothing more, nothing less.

So, to all of you who think there is something mysterious, or evil or extremely powerful behind freemasonry: There isnt. Maybe there used to be, but today there isnt. Or maybe I havent been recruited by the "circles within circles" but after all I have seen, I really doubt that too.

This is coming from someone who really believed the illuminati-conspiracy-theories a long time ago.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Skyfloating]

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Skyfloating]




posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 01:35 PM
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Huge chunks of your post I agree with, but this much I want to know: just how high in Masonry have you gotten?



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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I dont know, the more I read about these things, the more I get convinced they are accurate. For example, I hardly understand how anyone can think 9/11 was NOT a inside job when looking at the evidence.

And I guess at the moment, there are so many things not making sense that people start to wonder what the hell is going on... most of us can feel it.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 01:46 PM
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OK, lets look at two case studies...

The highest echelons of free masonry consisting of global financiers, politicians and business leaders meeting in secret to plot the subjegation of someone...

and...

The highest echelons of 'nothing' consisting of global financiers, politicians and business leaders meeting in secret to plot the subjegation of someone...

What is the difference? A criminal conspiracy is a criminal conspiracy, why do the masons have to be involved? If the requirement to be there is that you are rich and powerful, then what has all of the symbolism etc got to do with it? I can believe that people are conspiring at these levels but I would say that membership of the masons had nothing to do with this.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 01:52 PM
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To the OP, 9/11.......conspiracy or not?

As far as masons go, I've always thought that tying them in to any grand conspiracy was a diversion tactic. Any mason 32nd degree and under don't know squat anyways. The 33s laugh at you guys.


Peace



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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You see the problem with Freemasonry is that even the highest known level really wouldn't know what is the highest agenda of their organization. For instance, i have a friend who I have known for years. His dad happens to be a 33rd degree mason. I have even read reports that there are higher levels of masonry but it cant be verified really. I do know however, and this is a TRUE story, that when i was riding with my friend in his dads car, which happens to have a 33rd degree mason badge on the back, and we were pulled over without insurance, a drivers license, or registration, the cops started to discuss something to each other. And literally 5 minutes after the discussion, they told us that, "Normally we wouldn't do something like this, but you guys just go head and take off". Now if it was because of the masonry badge or they were nice cops(which i highly doubt) i don't know. Still something interesting to think about. Also the fact of the matter is that the highest levels in freemasonry have the system worked out so that whoever is below a certain point, really doesn't know whats going on.

View the Pyramid



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by Illuminated88
 


While I do not feel Masonry is sinister, and is instead quite good, I do think it can be abused for nefarious purposes, like just about anything else. Furthermore, I think Masonry may in fact appear mundane for someone who does not delve deep into its lore, but I, even as a non-Mason have studied just a few works about Masonry by Masons, find it to a mysterious and rich tapestry.

I have never found that organizational pyramid credible, I would like to see how the person who created it reached his conclusions.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:12 PM
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Well in all my masonry researching, i have come to find most of my information through ex-Illuminati members. You can deny the existence of the Illuminati but they have been around for ages, not always under the name Illuminati, but they have indeed been around and do exist. I think the confusion comes from people researching masonry and the Illuminati just on the internet, whereas i have gotten most of my information from actual people, from ex-high level masons, to ex-Illuminati, which is where you'll find out how the system works, a system of secrecy so well guarded you would be surprised to find out who some of the members are.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Illuminated88
 


How could you be sure these individuals weren't just "taking you for a ride"?



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:15 PM
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One more thing i forgot to mention, freemasonry itself is actually supposed to be how you guys explain it. It is supposed to be a place to sit back and enjoy different ideas with your brotherhood. Originally masonry was just supposed to be a place where someone from any religious sect, any group , could go and talk freely amongst people who thought differently. However elitists will and have taken advantage of that cover for centuries.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:18 PM
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The people i get my information from are far too credible, and while anyone could say they are taking me for a ride, the general secrecy in regard to discussing this information, as well overall fear of what is going to happen in the coming years has me constantly researching this topic and wondering the possibilities.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Illuminated88]



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

I dont know, the more I read about these things, the more I get convinced they are accurate. For example, I hardly understand how anyone can think 9/11 was NOT a inside job when looking at the evidence.

And I guess at the moment, there are so many things not making sense that people start to wonder what the hell is going on... most of us can feel it.



There are way too many suspensions of disbelief one must subscribe to to believe 9/11 was in fact an inside job. You have to believe that members of the military/intel agencies/law enforcement/air traffic control/pilots/fire fighters/etc.... who up until that point had loved their country, and within less than one year of a new Presidency, all decided to turn into traitors, and keep quiet. Additionally every media source had been gotten too, eyewitnesses had either been gotten too, or fooled by holographs, etc......
There are too many holes in the inside job that are unexplained, and those of us that don't believe that to have been the case have to prove a negative(that something didn't happen). Additionally one has to believe that anyone who writes explanations for the official story must be shills.
I guarantee you'll find more engineers, demolition experts, aviation experts that support the official story than the inside job story. Of course, they're all just shills. Very convenient argument- anyone that doesn't agree with me has been gotten too, or is a sheeple, as only CTers are enlightened enough to see what really happened.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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I read a lot of books about the "freemasons conspiracy" and believed much of it. My imagination ran wild with theories of my own. I pointed out symbolism to friends of mine. I wrote essays about the Illuminati and the world conspiracy.



this is only your own experience, and it appears your original concept of conspiracy was freemasonry. Of course, that was inaccurate - but don't hold that against all of the valid conspiracies out there.



In my twenties, my interest in conspiracy-theory waned


really? exact opposite for me. I thought it was all just a big sci-fi thing, until I joined the military. After that, I was very much convinced that many of the theories has something to them.



* The conspiracy-literature and especially the anti-masonic literature was published by sources I find questionable (fundamentalist christians and muslims, nazis and communists)


the material you chose to read was, perhaps. that does not mean it's all from crazies. I have come across quite a few questionable sources myself. That's why it's important to keep looking for more and more info, from different sources.



* That having money and power doesnt equate evil


who ever said it did? does this also mean that absence of power and money also means absence of "evil?" also, evil is such a subjective concept, it's not really fair or accurate to judge things on a scale of good/evil. There are too many shades of gray to choose.


* That there must be so many competing factions that the "one grand conspiracy" is probably not true.


i disagree. just as simple as that. What about CFR, Trilateral and Bilderbergs? These are international alliances that transcend political parties and economic systems. As far as one "grand" conspiracy, perhaps you are just using the wrong perspective.


it was when I got to know someone who was a freemason and actually joined freemasonry, that my belief in these type of conspiracy theories totally crumbled. In light of the actual facts, none of it could be upheld.


does your lodge somehow represent every lodge on earth, and all the lodges that existed before you became a mason, or even before you were born?


first I realized freemasonry was neither a grand conspiracy, nor was it a path to enlightenment. Initially it was a path to boredom.


I'm a bit taken back by this statement. If you truly joined to learn more about satanism, politics and business deals - than again, you had the wrong perspective from the start. To then say it was just a social club for dinners, drinking and getting away from your girl is reconfirming the misconception. I'm still trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that masonry has nothing to do with enlightenment. To me, it seems like you had way too many preconceived notions regarding conspiracies, and masonry - and when your personal experience didn't confirm your assumptions, you made another assumption. I hope this isn't coming across as criticism, just hoping to add some more perspective.



I now look at these conspiracy-theories and think: "Wow. How could I ever have believed all that nonsense?"


like which ones in particular? False flag operations? Skull and Bones opium trade? Iran-Contra conflict? Bavarian Illuminati? etc... to realize that your association of freemasons + worldwide conspiracy is false is on thing... but to just say "well, i guess ALL conspiracy theories are fantasy" is a dangerous outlook.



As I grew a bit more mature, I began appreciating freemasonry for what it really is: A system of gentle education to become a better person and a place to meet friends in an unsual atmosphere outside of daily life. Nothing more, nothing less.


again, I have to disagree. Although many many people treat masonry as a social club, it is NOT. It's not about charity, or fundraisers, or a dinner club. It really is about enlightenment, but not for all. At the risk of sounding snobby, I would even move so far as to say less than 50% of people join masonry and follow through for true personal development. The rest just accept it as a social club to meet friends - "nothing more, nothing less."

I could rant about this, but I would prefer to just suggest a book called "Meaning of Masonry" by W.L. Wilmhurst.


to all of you who think there is something mysterious, or evil or extremely powerful behind freemasonry: There isnt. Maybe there used to be, but today there isnt. Or maybe I havent been recruited by the "circles within circles" but after all I have seen, I really doubt that too.


this again is a dangerous outlook, in my opinion. There are probably hundreds of thousands of police stations in the US. To work at one of these for a couple years, and not encounter any wrongdoing - would not say anything for the other hundreds of thousands. On the same token - just because the LAPD is known for police brutality, doesn't mean it's the same i in Kennebunkport , Maine. It's also very evident that you are still equating "conspiracies" with freemasonry. Just drop that entire concept.



This is coming from someone who really believed the lluminati-conspiracy-theories a long time ago.


and this is coming from someone who never took them seriously, but I do now. I wouldn't say it's an Illuminati-grand conspiracy or anything, but many many different smaller ones, with many common names and motives.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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Replies to the first responses

Reply to uberarcanist: Freemasonry only has 3 degrees. The rest are "side degrees" which are more of the same.

Reply to Copernicus: I am not saying I dont believe in conspiracies. I no longer believe in the specific "world conspiracy theory of the illuminati".

Reply to DrLove: Of course theres the real possibility of a 9/11 conspiracy. THAT I am not denying.

Reply to Illuminated 88: Well, that may be the case. But I I´ll tell you what: I have seen a lot of claims made in books that turned out not to be true when actually being there live and for real.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question. How high up in the Appendant Bodies did you get?



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:55 PM
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Reply to Illuminated 88:

If what you are saying turns out to be true, I will gladly stand corrected. I am still (even now!) willing to consider the idea. But the enthusiasm for it wanes when you actually meet a bunch of these supposed evil-doers face to face and realize they could never abduct, rape and slaughter children or traffic weapons.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by uberarcanist
 





Huge chunks of your post I agree with, but this much I want to know: just how high in Masonry have you gotten?


The 3rd degree is the highest degree. I don't know why people cannot understand that. Really not that hard.

numbers mean nothing. Master Mason is the top.



The highest echelons of free masonry consisting of global financiers, politicians and business leaders meeting in secret to plot the subjegation of someone...

and...

The highest echelons of 'nothing' consisting of global financiers, politicians and business leaders meeting in secret to plot the subjegation of someone..


Corporations, American Culture, Consumerism and Globalization IS everything listed .. It is the corruption and decay you see. Why does an organization have to be behind it? Its the entire damn populace who supports our consumerist lifestyle that breeds the financiers, business leaders, electing our half witted politicians and all that leads to you be subjecated by those up top, human greed drives them. But hey, the rich have always held the power. Its nothing new.



Any mason 32nd degree and under don't know squat anyways. The 33s laugh at you guys.


I laugh at non Masons who think they know more then Masons. "Lower Masons have no idea, but I who am not a Mason, never talked to a Mason, never been in a Masonic building know more then those lowly Masons"





Illuminated88


... I have heard stories of cops letting fellow Masons off with warnings, I don't think its wide spread, but I wouldn't doubt that it happens. But is that even remotely close to being a conspiracy? .....

Uber:


I do think it can be abused for nefarious purposes, like just about anything else. Furthermore, I think Masonry may in fact appear mundane for someone who does not delve deep into its lore, but I, even as a non-Mason have studied just a few works about Masonry by Masons, find it to a mysterious and rich tapestry.


Quite right, it can be abused (the connections and so forth) but that still always goes down to a personal level.. a brother in my lodge may do something, but only him, does that make all of us guilty of his crimes?



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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Reply to scientist



this is only your own experience, and it appears your original concept of conspiracy was freemasonry. Of course, that was inaccurate - but don't hold that against all of the valid conspiracies out there.


my original concept of conspiracy wasnt freemasonry. I probably read the entire field. In times before internet you had these mail order catalogues on the subject. I have come to the conclusion that there are indeed valid conspiracies, but not as many as some think.






the material you chose to read was, perhaps. that does not mean it's all from crazies. I have come across quite a few questionable sources myself. That's why it's important to keep looking for more and more info, from different sources.


As I said, some of it was valid and good.




who ever said it did? does this also mean that absence of power and money also means absence of "evil?" also, evil is such a subjective concept, it's not really fair or accurate to judge things on a scale of good/evil. There are too many shades of gray to choose.


one of the premises that runs through conspiracy literature is the concept that elitists or those with power and money tend to be more evil than the common man. After getting to know some people with power and money I find this to be false.



* i disagree. just as simple as that. What about CFR, Trilateral and Bilderbergs? These are international alliances that transcend political parties and economic systems. As far as one "grand" conspiracy, perhaps you are just using the wrong perspective.


The CFR-Trilateral-Bilderberg CT makes a bit more sense than the reptilian-baby-eating theory, yes. Thanks for that input...and thats the purpose of this thread to find out what is valid and not valid. But dont be surprised if one day you find out that what you thought is a conspiracy is not.




does your lodge somehow represent every lodge on earth, and all the lodges that existed before you became a mason, or even before you were born?


You make another good point. No it doesnt represent the whole of freemasonry. But it represents enough for me to know that some people are mistaken in their general fear of freemasons. Badly mistaken. Look at how some people tense up and get wide eyes when I say "I am a freemason". From the expression on their face I know they have some ideas that are, at least partially, inaccurate.



I'm a bit taken back by this statement. If you truly joined to learn more about satanism, politics and business deals - than again, you had the wrong perspective from the start.


nowhere in my post did I state that those were the reasons I joined. The actual reason I joined was to learn more about the esoteric aspects. I have been and continue to be interested in esotericism.




like which ones in particular? False flag operations? Skull and Bones opium trade? Iran-Contra conflict? Bavarian Illuminati? etc... to realize that your association of freemasons + worldwide conspiracy is false is on thing... but to just say "well, i guess ALL conspiracy theories are fantasy" is a dangerous outlook.


And again: You have misunderstood my post. I am not saying that ALL conspiracies are fantasy. Instead I intend to state: Nothing is as it seems, not even conspiracy theories many hold to be completely true. false flag operations? yes, I believe they exist. Iran-Contra? Yes. Bavarian Illuminati? Yes, but no longer. If I werent open to the possibility, I wouldnt be visiting ATS. Furthermore: I am adressing those who DO believe in a masonic conspiracy and telling them: No, probably not.




again, I have to disagree. Although many many people treat masonry as a social club, it is NOT. It's not about charity, or fundraisers, or a dinner club. It really is about enlightenment, but not for all. At the risk of sounding snobby, I would even move so far as to say less than 50% of people join masonry and follow through for true personal development. The rest just accept it as a social club to meet friends - "nothing more, nothing less."


Esotericism and self-discovery is my private motivation for having joined. I found some thing out about that in masonry, but not (yet) all.



.this again is a dangerous outlook, in my opinion. There are probably hundreds of thousands of police stations in the US. To work at one of these for a couple years, and not encounter any wrongdoing - would not say anything for the other hundreds of thousands. On the same token - just because the LAPD is known for police brutality, doesn't mean it's the same i in Kennebunkport , Maine. It's also very evident that you are still equating "conspiracies" with freemasonry. Just drop that entire concept.


I am talking to the people who equate freemasonry with conspiracy and saying: "Drop that concept". And here you are telling me to do what I asked others to do.


[edit on 27-9-2007 by Skyfloating]

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Skyfloating]



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 03:17 PM
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I believe freemasonry is a scapegoat for the groups that are actually bad. I don't think freemasonry is bad. It has some bad people, though. There are various world leaders, dictators, etc who were/are masons, but that shouldn't reflect on the society as a whole.

Simply because there may be no grand freemasonry conspiracy does not mean there is no grand conspiracy with another group or society, though.

9/11 and freemasonry really have nothing to do with each other either.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist


I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question. How high up in the Appendant Bodies did you get?


There are only three degrees and I went up three degrees!



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