Originally posted by Valhall
Is lying a personal trait of yours, or can I assume it necessarily comes with atheism?

You can form your own opinion, but I think the rudeness of your posts isn't needed. Have a debate with this, but keep it civil. No need to get snarky because your beliefs differ.

Originally posted by vckums

You can form your own opinion, but I think the rudeness of your posts isn't needed. Have a debate with this, but keep it civil. No need to get snarky because your beliefs differ.

I'm not getting snarky because our beliefs differ, but I believe malfunction is.

I'm getting snarky because she lied about me. I can see a major malfunction with that. I'll get snarky.

I came to this thread to show that the archaic laws used as evidence of a conspiracy against athiests are no longer effective. They have been nullified via the Supreme Court. The only thing in return I have received in the form of debate from malfunction is illogical mental masturbation and lies about me.

[edit on 9-26-2007 by Valhall]

There's no reason to be snarky. That's what I'm getting at. You addmited being snarky. Let it go. MM has a belief, you can disagree but your way of doing this is distracting from the thread. Walk away if you can't be civil. Which is what I'm doing right after I post this. MM, this was a good topic to get peoples ideas on, sorry if it got dragged down.

When did it get dragged down exactly vckrum?

When the evidence was shown that there are no constitutionally enforcable laws to prevent an atheist from holding office and therefore the theory is errant?

Or when MM lied about me?

I'm betting dollars to donuts you're not going to pick either one of those.

Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Etc. - Believes in God, deity or supernatural based on faith.

Atheist - Does not believe in God, deity or supernatural based on faith.

Agnostic - Does not believe or disbelieve in God, deity or supernatural. Neutral

Being agnostic is not a belief in God without having a religion. It is not having a faith based belief either way. It is an appropriate scientific viewpoint to have because it is not biased to evidence.

There is no proof either way to prove or disprove the existence of whatever this deity, God, higher power may potentially be or if we are actually part of this 'God'.

Atheism is as much religious as Christianity. A belief that one can declare with absolute certainty the presence or absence of 'God' is both arrogant and ignorant.

The religious shouldn't be in office. Atheist or otherwise.


[edit on 9/26/2007 by Spoodily]

Originally posted by Spoodily
Atheism is as much religious as Christianity. A belief that one can declare with absolute certainty the presence or absence of 'God' is both arrogant and ignorant.

Seriously? We don't base our "beliefs" on a piece of paper that came from a plethora of random people through out time, which are completely contradictory and about as empirical as Santa Claus.

We base our decision on scientific theories (which, are not layman's theories) and most often then not philosophy and then conclude through a plethora of empirical data points that: God does not exist, doesn't need to exist, doesn't matter if it exists.

While you may run around and believe that Atheists meet up every week/month on a certain date to pray, hold rituals, talk about personal faith, and share their mystical experiences (which is what Religion is described as), we'll go and live our lives to the fullest and enjoy every passing moment knowing there's nothing after to prepare for. It's all we got.

Ignorance? Arrogance? In today's world everybody has been taught in a specific way to believe. It's all part of upbringing. To claim people are ignorant of a belief is like claiming those that don't celebrate the image of the Easter Bunny are ignorant. I'm going to be so bold as to say every child on this planet is born an Atheist. It's the influence that effects the way you think later on.

Arrogance? It's us Atheists who usually get treated like the scum of the Earth (where's that Christian kindness?) in the United States of America, a country founded upon a principle of "Religion doesn't matter", the founding fathers were Deists after all. Obviously, it'd be an extremely hard thing to comprehend but the moment Darwin solved the problem of life, an amazing amount of Deists turned to Agnosticism or Atheism.

Unfortunately, I know deep down that anyone of those folks if they were to be running today for the presidential office wouldn't even make it into the primaries.

Also, there are very few people in the United States that can truly call themselves Christian. If they were to do so, they'd not be allowed to cherry pick through the bible and dismiss everything in there that their common sense tells them that's wrong. All morality is derived from the book (no, not Lord of the Rings)

Titus 2:9-10 slaves are ordered to, “Be submissive to your master and give satisfaction in every respect."

Joel 3:8 God warns that, “I will sell your sons and your daughters to the Judians, and they shall in turn sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off.”

Tim. 6:1-2; “Let slaves regard their masters as worthy of all honor."

Obviously, slavery is morally just in the Bible. A sign of the times, one can say, but can't everything else be said in that same respect?

There's a lot to be said but what's the point? This country is overrun by Christian evangelists and or desperately misinformed kind hearted Christians that believe what they're being told in Church is all that is in the book. Only if they'd look and study a little further.

Edit: I'd also like to add some true arrogance: I went to private school (Christian, both middle and high) and studied theology for 7 while being there. Mandatory study. Church was also mandatory. I never really cared to think about god before middle school. I was morally just before religion entered my life. I still am, but what made me start down the path of Atheism was the Bible itself. Go figure. Hey, at least the book taught me that ignorance is NOT bliss and knowledge is power.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Donoso]

Originally posted by Donoso

Originally posted by Spoodily
Atheism is as much religious as Christianity. A belief that one can declare with absolute certainty the presence or absence of 'God' is both arrogant and ignorant.

Seriously? We don't base our "beliefs" on a piece of paper that came from a plethora of random people through out time, which are completely contradictory and about as empirical as Santa Claus.

You hold the same values of some mental construct of deity. It's just the disbelief of it.

We base our decision on scientific theories (which, are not layman's theories) and most often then not philosophy and then conclude through a plethora of empirical data points that: God does not exist, doesn't need to exist, doesn't matter if it exists.

You base your beliefs on scientific theories and then claim atheism to be synonymous with science. There is no proof to these beliefs just as there is no proof to the existence of God. Faith makes religion, and both of these views are based on faith.

You don't have to believe or disbelieve in deity or the supernatural.

Creating some goofball idea of what you think God is and then adamantly telling everyone how much you think it does or doesn't exist is borderline crazy. Seriously, atheism is a religion based on God just as much as Christianity is.

I've been reading a lot of threads on ATS for a while, but seeing this thread made me want to post for the first time. First, how many atheists come knocking on your door trying to convert you? NONE. There's a plus for Atheists. Two Christians came to my door several months ago, they asked me if I had headrd the word of Christ. I told them "Yes, but I'm not interested, I'm Athiest, but thank you anyway."
They spit in my face and called me a piece of trash. So yes, Atheists are not very well liked by Christians, or any other religios group for that matter.
Second, I have read on here many times in different threads concerning this topic, people spouting "The Word of God" to anyone that claims to be an atheist. So, don't even try to convert me.
Third, Atheism is not based on the same principals as Christianity, we don't congregate, we don't go door to door bothering people, and we certainly don't conspire agaist other religious sects.
There is SOMETHING agaist Atheists, but, a conspiracy? Probably not.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by supervortex2004]

I'm quite certain that in many parts of the world Atheists are treated like lepers. My own mother was upset when I informed her that I was Agnostic, and she isn't even a church goer. Atheist make up only approximately 2.3% of the world's population. So being outnumbered by that many people who are certain there is God, and most of those people are certain who that god is, Atheists are likely to face persecution in some way. Having a polar belief is disturbing to many religious people, you are challenging their entire reality when you claim to be an Atheist. Most of the time people become quite upset when you challenge their reality, just look at the September 11th forum.

That's why I choose to be Agnostic, why come to a conclusion on a topic that is impossible to prove or disprove.

It's possible that all religions are wrong but God may still exist.

Two sides opposing each other will also conspire against each other. Take the simplest form of a football-match: Both sides will try to come up with tricky tactics to outsmart each other.

The christian-side continually tries to infiltrate politics, media, schools...but so does the atheist side. In fact these are probably the two most powerful sides in the United States. Therefore, someone who is from neither of the sides, could speculate on a conspiracy from both sides.

Just a question with no agenda intended: Aren't people in public office in the states required to swear an oath? What do atheists and people of other religions swear against?

Aside from spitting in peoples faces we should forgive the attempts at conversion, that is what many christian sects expect of their members. It is just the same as 'goingg to church on sundays', 'praying' or my personal favourite 'putting money in the collection plate'.

It is just what they do...

Hmm, interesting thread.

There maybe old laws regarding this, but it won't stand up in a modern day court, or the Supreme Court. The United Kingdom still has laws that allow an Englishmen to shoot a Welshmen through the heart, with a cross, at midnight in a graveyard.

If you did that, reckon you will get away with it? No, you wouldn't

I have to disagree, there is no conspiracy.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Getting on the main target. There is an anti atheist conspiracy, the headers of it being me, Southerners, and pretty much every Religious person on the planet being made up of over 90%.

i think you have your numbers wrong.
according to adherents.com 16% of the world is "nonreligious"

Religious people don't like atheists, so they bad mouth them. It's no conspiracy, just common sense.

so you don't like lance armstrong? americans love that guy, he's an atheist.

the problem is a misrepresentation of atheists. you love atheists, so long as you don't have to acknowledge who they are.
charlie chaplain, though fond of the bible, was an atheist
einstein was an agnostic/atheist

the world over, those two are loved.
it isn't common sense, here, it's bigotry.

bigotry is a very ignorant thing. see the motto for what we should do about it

now tell me, what has ATHEISM done wrong in the past?
not atheists, atheism as an institution, as a lack of belief.

Originally posted by infinite
I have to disagree, there is no conspiracy.

and the modern demonization of atheists is going to be excluded from your deductions? just because the laws aren't going to be enforced, doesn't mean that there aren't other factors

i brought up the recent issue in texas, they added "one state under god" to the state pledge and then made it mandatory.

to get federal funding, public schools are required to recite the pledge of allegiance which had "under god" added to it in the 1950s.

pretty good thread major....i think you're correct..
these laws are on the books. how do we know they are not being enforced?

are there any atheists in office in those states? in any states?

i'd be curious on that one...

this friggin country is so brain washed it's crazy

Gorman's post sort of proves my point here.

I don't see atheists spewing hate at all. I see them asking questions, rationally discussing irrational subjects, and being hated ON. It's all over the boards. it's odd; we ask questions and have a point of view that in most cases is offered up in a very logcial, calm, and rational manner, but Christians here perceive it as being "militant" "angry" and "hateful."

I think that atheists today are reviled like homosexuals were prior to Stonewall -- and gays, though they've come a long way, have a long way yet to go before they're treated equally.

How long will it be in today's politico-religious climate before atheists are required to register themselves? Before they're declared terrorists for not attending church? Before it's OK to discriminate against them in housing, public money, or other venues? I'm not saying it's coming, but I am saying I can see it happening from the tone of some of the Christians who posted in this thread, and in other places.

I don't call names when I'm arguing a point from my perspective on non-belief; but believers often do.

Another thing I've noticed -- atheists ASK questions, and Christians make statements telling us how we feel and think while having no actual clue about the truth of what goes on in our heads. That is a form of abuse -- defining someone else's reality without listening to what they have to say or taking their own views into account. I want to discuss this particular point more, but it's time to take my kid to school.

I guess the problem is that atheist = slavering, sinning wretch, Soddom and Gommorah and all of those other things.

I find it a bit insulting that firstly I am discredited by Christians (or Muslims) because I beleive in nothing. Does this mean that I have no moral code, ethics etc? Does a professed belief mean that you always live by the codes laid down in your chosen religion? No, otherwise we would not have masses of history of many 'men of faith' committing heinous crimes against their own stated moral code.

Secondly; Why can't we just be left alone with our own choice, even if that may 'damn us' surely we have a right to choose our own fate in the same way that Christians choose the Word of God? I don't remember it being said that me not going to heaven when I die will have an impact on anybody but me.