MM, thanks for the compliment. It really means alot to me.


As for the above post, why do you have to lump all Christians into the catagory of "The ones that come to your door and tell you why you're going to hell."?

I don't do that, and I'm Christian. I am part of a branch of Christianity that does do that however, and I really have no problem with it. If you're not interested, or come to the door naked, they'll leave you alone. It's as easy as that.

Back on the topic of public office: I live in Tennessee, and I'm going to check into whether or not Knoxville (the city I live in) will allow anyone of any or no religious background to run for office. This is part of the Bible Belt though, so it might be tough.

I'll check on it though, and post what I could find out.

(Edited cause I can't spell )

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Valdimer]

You're welcome Valdimer. I'm not the big evil biting thing some people seem to think I am.

I think it would be very interesting to see what your local rules for office are, and the local laws. though usually if something is in a state's constitution, it doesn't need to be replicated on the local level.

If your county or city doesn't know the outcome, call your state representative and see what they have to say about it.

I'm frankly curious. Thanks for offering to do this.

interesting discussion - thanks! (even if it did get bogged down in the technicatlities of the law and mostly missed the point)

Atheists are generally the target of bigotry and theism and, in almost every case, it's just pure ignorance. One of the reasons religion is behind so many of the world's confilcts (going back about 10,000 years or so) is that "human nature" causes a person to react to the information that somebody else does not share their beliefs as as direct assault - the equivalent of saying "You are wrong!" In fact, some people do actually mean that.

Think about the Protestants and Catholics, espeically in European history. They KILL each other! Whether it be with guerilla and terrorism tactics as in the past 30+ years in Ireland or with the Abigensian Crusades where it was all out war and theicide in France. All these folks actually profess to believe in Jesus!

Muslim sects kill each other and have for thousands of years - no better and no worse than Christian sects.

Christians and Muslims have slaughtered Jews (though the issue was almos never about theology). Jews have waged plenty of wars - not usually on other Jews, though.

Stop rambling...OK.

My point is that Atheists don't wage wars. Neither do Agnostics. Nether do people like me who believe in G-d but don't believe that any organized religinon on earth is a good idea but, that's not my problem to solve.

I quit visiting this board regularly over a year ago because it had become invaded by evangelicals (of many stripes) who hi-jacked every intelligent discussion of "Conspiracies in Religion" with all kinds of useless procelytizing and attempts to convert - most were well-intended but out of place like a "turd in a punch bowl at a wedding reception" because there were once (not much any more) REAL Bible scholars and credentialed historians and archeologists. They got tired of being preached at and went somewhere elase - I wish I knew where because I learned a ton from them.

So, finally, I don't know about using the word "conspiracy" but I grew up as a Christion and I know what they are taught as their solemn duty: Preach the gospel, convert people (aka "bring the sinners to salvation"), and make sure that everyone on earth believes as they believe. OK, nice mission but it just flat destroys most intellectial discussions.

Atheists are not eh the ONLY ones "suffering" from evangelical Christians!

Ok, so i offended a few people, boo hoo, do it everyday. Fact remains, people are mainly religious, or secular religious (believe, but don't practice). 20% being un religious completely? where did you get those figures? there is about 70% devoutly religious (the masses) 20% who believe in something but don't do much else, 5 % who are good atheists, and 5% who badmouth everything religious. That's how the polls show it.

Fact remains also that, as the world goes deeper into hatred and WW3, there will be less faithful, then there will be a revival in religion after the war,and a balancing off until something acts as a catalyst either way. This is the pattern in history.

I have my personal proof of a God, but that is another story I might tell when it isn't 1 in the morning, and I can never say he doesn't exist after that event.

(Edit to add: ) Yea, it is about preaching the word of God, but it's up to that person to listen or not. If you don't want to listen, it's as simple as saying that you're not interested.

It's like being asked to renew your subscription to your local newspaper. If you say no, they might ask why, and give you some points to continue, but if you say no, that's pretty much what it boils down to.

That's my opinion on it anyway.
[edit on 27-9-2007 by Valdimer]

Ahhh...if only it were that easy! Understand, please, I'm not angry - frustrated a bit but not angry.

The problem with just saying "No thanks" and having that be the end is that there doesn't seem to be any "Master list" or "Do Not Call" list that I can get onto with evangelicals so, I have to go through that routine with all 2 billion of them. At some pont, some will just check back with me to see if maybe I've had a change of heart so, that's a least another 1/2 billion times.

The math is like: 2.5 billion "no thank you's" X 60 seconds (to get them to believe that I really mean it) = 2.5 billion minutes = 4,756 years so, you can see that it becomes somewhat timeconsuming and annoying if I must spend the next 4,000 years, 24-hours each day, explaining that I'd rather not hear their gospel.

As for the above post, why do you have to lump all Christians into the catagory of "The ones that come to your door and tell you why you're going to hell."?

I don't do that, and I'm Christian. I am part of a branch of Christianity that does do that however, and I really have no problem with it. If you're not interested, or come to the door naked, they'll leave you alone. It's as easy as that.

I am not "lumping" anyone into one catagory. I am simply responding with a sweeping generality do someone who posted a sweeping generality. In fact I do realize that not all religious people are like that and I apologize if I offended you.

I do however, have a problem with anyone coming to my home and telling me what I should believe whether it is about politics, religion, etc...

If I want answers to religious questions, I will go to them. A hopefully understandable analogy would be:
If I want to buy a car, I go to the car dealership, I don't want salesman after salesman, showing up at my house with car after car, trying to sell me on each cars best features.

I leave religious people alone to worship in their own way, I expect and require the same respect.

Just to be clear, I believe everyone should be able to worship nothing, whatever or whomever they want with persecution as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else' rights.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
he and his dad really have a disagreement on this stuff. jesus seems to be mellow.. his dad asks for genocides and burns cities to the ground

let me just ad a little
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAH



that was a good post brosef

Originally posted by Valdimer
If you're not interested, or come to the door naked, they'll leave you alone. It's as easy as that.

the point is, a person shouldn't have to resort to 'tactics' to get rid of them..
i paid long money for this house. i OWN it. i have a no soliciting sign. a no trespassing sign....THAT should be enough for them to leave me alone yet they don't.

so, it's up to me, the homeowning, minding my own biz atheist to answer the door with some tactic to try to get the friggin pariah's away from my door.

Gorman, the argument from authority (or in this case, the argument from "everybody else is doing it") is as much a logical fallacy as believing the world was created all in six days and god went to a barbeque on the seventh.

So what if most people in the world are religious? that just makes most people in the world believe in something they can neither prove nor see. It doesn't make them right, it just means that they all have a mind virus.

People used to believe that there were sea monsters and you could sail off the end of the world, but that didn't make them right, either.

I think personally, that the fact that the internet exists will give non-believers a voice and a way to contact one another that they previously didn't have access to. The closet is shrinking for us. I think that in the end religions will destroy themselves either outright through war with other religious groups, or with people getting fed up with the mixed messages and abuse heaped on them by certain very vocal and ignorant groups.

Take that as a personal insult if you will, I was mentally imagining you in that group anyway.

Atheism and non-theism is a spreading meme. The mind virus is on the run, which is perhaps why its carriers are so angry about evolution. They know it shows that the sky fairy is unneccessary.

Personally, I don't care if someone is a believer or not. I have plenty of Christian friends on my friends list. It's the ones with the poisonous hateful attitude that I dislike. And those are the ones I will argue with.

But back on topic, you've also proved my point. Again. "Most of the world is religious." Telling us to shut up because we're outnumbered. That in itself is a conspiracy to quiet voices.

I can see it now, Uncle Gorman's Condemn the Unbeliever Family Fun Park.

"Uncle Gorman's Condemn the Unbeliever Family Fun Park." - MM


XD LMFAO that has to be the funniest one liner ive heard in a loooong time. But yeah i got to agree that evangelicals are definitely a problem, they are so annoying sometimes by being so pushy, I just say "move along now or feel the wrath of my Mjolnir!"
XD

Well, religon always wins. I must have posted this 3 times by now, but here is a quote of some important Buddhist guy I met in SE Asia



"You forgot one thing, religion always wins! It is like a flood. If you think plugging the Dam's holes with toothpaste will do anything, live in that fantasy. The water always finds a way. Forget which one IT is, the flood of religion always wins. Look at Russia. The Communists tried for 80 or so years to stop religion, and they got no where, Your Christian God now calls his flock from China, not Europe. And I can already see the revival of religion in Europe. Look at your world, when Europe crumbles, they will find help in God once again. It is funny to see this people think they can stop the flood. They will all drown, as have so many others."

Offensive to you probably, but for the past x amount of years since humanity evolved, it's been true.

actually floods are only temporary as they eventually recede.
So obviously in the end, floods don't win.

Just an observation

Cool! We need more laws like this!

Originally posted by jfj123
actually floods are only temporary as they eventually recede.
So obviously in the end, floods don't win.

Just an observation

No, the point was that it is like water, you can't stop water, only slow it down. Even dams eventually erode away.

+, if you believe in Global Warming, then... no further comment.

[edit on 28-9-2007 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
Ok, so i offended a few people, boo hoo, do it everyday.

....yea, you should really avoid doing it. being considerate is something to strive for.

Fact remains, people are mainly religious, or secular religious (believe, but don't practice). 20% being un religious completely? where did you get those figures? there is about 70% devoutly religious (the masses) 20% who believe in something but don't do much else, 5 % who are good atheists, and 5% who badmouth everything religious. That's how the polls show it.

which polls?
CNN did a (horrible) piece on atheism and said that 10-15% are atheist.
and you're discounting the AGNOSTICS.
and "good atheists" vs "badmouth everything religious"?
that sounds like the old "good black people" versus "uppity (ones)" line...

Fact remains also that, as the world goes deeper into hatred and WW3, there will be less faithful, then there will be a revival in religion after the war,and a balancing off until something acts as a catalyst either way. This is the pattern in history.

...we've never had this level of unbelief in the world.
16% of the world is non-religious. your counterpoint of "but but china changes the numbers" doesn't make sense. were china to say its entire population was atheist the number would be much higher, in fact, it would make atheism the biggest group in the world. currently the figure is approx 1.1 billion atheists in the world (perspective, just over half the population of china)

I have my personal proof of a God, but that is another story I might tell when it isn't 1 in the morning, and I can never say he doesn't exist after that event.

post it in another thread, or start your own, if you have that.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Cool! We need more laws like this!

...that's just wrong.

Sorry for krappy spelling ^

Originally posted by Gorman91
Actually, China is smart. Wouldn't you be suspicious if the Chinese revolution happened at out of no where a 6th of the pop went atheist?

...ok, you're just saying things here, but you have nothing to back this up.

And the would had had more atheists before.

Before the adoption Christianity in Rome, it could be very well said that most people were either atheists or agnostic in the Empire, as the religion was so corrupted by the state that no one believed. The practiced it as the Emperor said to, but no one really cared.

no, most people believed in tribal gods because they couldn't explain things...

16% atheist would mainly be in Europe also, I forgot that one. And for that matter, the pattern applies there too.

10-20% of america is atheist.
that's 30-60 million of the people right there.
and it's not a "pattern" it's people legitimately being atheists. you're acting as if theism should be the norm.

After they go under from the Muslims or socialists or whoever is coming in next, they will have a religious revolution.

....you really don't understand europe. it's MOSTLY socialst. one of the parties in power in the current german government is the christian socialist party. sweden is 80+% atheist and a SOCIALIST country. you're confusing communism and socialism here
...and what makes islam worse than christianity?
both religions work from books that praise killing unbelievers and oppressing women.

It is highly likely that the Extremist Muslims will take over (as they have begun to) and then force everyone to submit to their way.

wow, you REALLY don't know europe. extremist muslims are FAR from being able to take over here...

This will cause a revolution and moderate Islam will become the mainstream religion in Europe. Or possibly the Muslims and Christians will form their own separate joined religon, as the Sikhs did in India, or some other groups have done in Africa.

that is highly unlikely. the most likely possibility is the current downward trend of religion in europe will continue until it reaches a breaking point and there is a counter-revival of religion among a small part of the population and an extreme hastening of the trend of secularism.

The point is, China is smart, they smudge the numbers a bit here and there. But hey, currently Buddhism and Christianity or on the rise there. They say China will be the most religiously devote people in the world within 50 years.

you've made 3 points. 1 is quite evident (though china's christianity is a religion run by the government...) but the other 2 are a bit... unsupported.
who says they'll be the most devote?
where do you have evidence that they fudge the numbers?

In any case, the pattern keeps. Wars come closer, forces people to abandon religon, war happens, people unite and either return or form new religions, then a balance off happens.

you are quite ignorant to world history. we're experiencing an unprecedented level of atheism, agnosticism and secularism in the world. something that has already broken the pattern.
we're in the middle of half a dozen wars in the world, people aren't uniting and going back to religion... hell, it's the religions that are starting some of the wars.

Religion always wins, as that Buddhist guy said in the quote a few posts ago.

...no, it doesn't.