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5 Reasons why America is Going to Hell in a Handbasket.

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posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:35 PM
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I agree with the first five, and I would like to add some more to the list.

6. A corrupt court system, where justice is determined by the ability of the accused to afford a lawyer, those without money are quickly railroaded into our vastly growing prison industrial complex.

7. An executive branch that choses what laws it will or will not enforce, allowing those with the connections to skirt the laws, as well as those whom the people with connections prefer to be ignored, like illegal aliens.

8. Family courts elimination of a father's, and sometimes a mother's, authority to raise their children the way they choose. Anyone who has been through a custody dispute knows this full well.

9. Cooked numbers that falsely report the condition of the economy.

10. Corporate totalitarian control of our markets through their control of the politicians and the courts.




posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


It's good to see that eventually you aren't above admitting when you're wrong, I still had to press you a bit though.

It's amazing how many people will refuse to acknowledge personal error even when confronted with the facts refuting their accusations, that seemed to be the route you were taking initially... at least in the end you submitted, that counts for something at least.

Apology accepted, just be more careful in the future and don't misquote me again.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:49 PM
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StellerX -- First of all, I would like to apologize for assuming you were American. Clearly the history books you get in South Africa are not even close to the history books in the US.

To again rebut your ignorant comments, on how America is (considering you don't live here, see how our communities are ran, or how things are) I have this to say in response.




The mayflower expedition was not a 'religious' expedition and to call them 'puritanical' is a stretch by most definitions as they clearly just wanted to do their own thing in their own way; they were NOT being persecuted and the majority of the crew and passengers apparently had no serious religious inclinations at all. The 'founding' myth of the US corresponds as much with reality as the Roman or Greek founding myths do.


First of all, who said I was talking about the mayflower. I am talking of general colonization. The link below mentions that a practical reason for colonization is freedom of religion. I would personally think that is to escape religious persecution. You can't say it doesn't happen in the world, and wouldn't happen then. That is naive.

The Purtian religion was not one of the popular beliefs or the belief in power at the time. In a monarchy having different beliefs was hazardous. In fact the Purtian faith (which is really a form of Prodestant) was under persecution during Queen Mary's reign (which was many many years before colonization of the Americas), which is how she got the nickname Bloody Mary. Many escaped to Europe, and then later they colonized the US.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...




The US air force have in at least one instance fire bombed the African American section of a major us city and they have done far worse things to coloured people all over the world.


Wow, that's a huge statement. I haven't heard of any major US city being fire bombed by the US airforce. I know of Riots that have happened, but nothing of fire bombs. Do you have links to back that up?

As for the rest of the world, the US goes around and plays Team America World Police all the time. I don't think that it's skin color related. It's usually cause the polititions feel that the world should all be like the US. Believe me, this is not the common thought process of Americans. Most of us, want out of world chaos. Let the world handle themselves, I always say.




Abraham Lincoln had slaves and i can assure you that the American civil war had nothing to do with setting anyone free; it was mostly just a pretext for integration and far more to do with removing the South as competition for the industrialized north than slavery. The reality is that you had to feed a slave and house it properly as you PAID for him/her and would lose money if they died or got sick while in the industrialized North you could exploit people till they dropped dead and just find more to exploit to death; probably another reason for 'freeing' those slaves to be worked to death in the North.


Did he? I don't remembering anything saying he did. However he did deliver the Emancipation Proclamation which abolished slavery in the US. The secession of the South was due to the republican anti-slavery beliefs. That is what caused the Civil War... the secession of the South.

The theory you have of the industrialization of the north, makes little sense. Many slaves where brutalized and mutilated as punishment for any misbehavior. They ate just enough to stay alive on some plantations, and weren't housed in anything more than shanty's and shacks. Many attempted to escape, and did so via the Underground Railroad. Before the civil war had even started, they wanted their freedom in the north.

The Dred Scott case helped escalate the whole event. Here are some links you might find informative.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...




Sure it was; they did not want to arm African Americans or treat them like equals... What does the northern capitalist care if white people died when coloured people could be forced to do the same work for much smaller wages? You have the side benefit of destroying your capitalist competitors in the South while putting downward pressure on wages; sounds like a good plan for a capitalist...


Again not so... you forget I said MAINLY. There were former Slaves and freed coloureds in fighting as well. The 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Regiment comprised of just this. In fact over all, there were 163 Units. So yes, they were armed and the fought along side the whites in this war. They only comprised of 10 percent of the Union Army and though 1/3 of them died for their own freedom, which the numbers crunch to be 60,000... their death toll wasn't near the 300,000 white people who died for their freedom. Please read these links.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.itd.nps.gov...




Officially it might have but there is truth to the maximum that you should not believe anything until it is officially denied.


Are you serious? I live here... I see how things are. I went to a desegregated school. I have coloured friends (who like to be called black), co-workers, and neighbors. The person who owns the house I live in is Coloured and financially better off than I am and has a management position. I don't need it officially denied. I have eyes. Please don't make comments bout anything you don't have a clue on.





How would these poor exploited people afford to come live in white neighbours btw?


It's not hard, if you think about it. It's called hard work and education. Like I said there are tons of opportunities to get out of the getto. I have black neighbours and they did just that. I will admit some communities are still in Archaic times, with their racist beliefs, most are completely accepting of our coloured neighbors.

Coloureds here are't as exploited as you think. I'll go into that in the next post as this one has become to long to keep going. So TBC.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


i cant take a stance here. you cant make accusations like this without proving examples, links, or name some names.

for all i know you had a bad day and this is the only way you can vent.
[which is obviously not the case. but im sure there are events, people, government "faux - pas " that have led you to this post. at least provide inside knowledge, or something that can assure readers that you know what you are talking about, and not just rambling.
there are about 335.5 million Americans who probably share the same view as you, unfortunately all they do is talk and point out the bad things in life.
which is why we're all stuck in the same boat.


>> 3. Perpetual War for Profit - Still stuck in Iraq after 5 years and nothing has been accomplished. Unless you count a bunch of millionaires becoming billionaires and 4000+ American lives being lost as something. And for what? The only logical answer: MONEY..."OH! But we got Saddam out of power!" Bah, Saddam hasn't hurt any of us over here on American soil, at least the last time I checked.

you forgot to mention the millions dead and millions displaced, and hundred of thousand of orphans in Iraq and a crumbling country....

ill add this : 6) america think they have it bad, when millions of people would rather have it as bad as the 5 mention paragraphs posted above...
thats the eventual fall of america, spoiled brats who think their well being is all that matters [for the sake of the rest of the world...].



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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Here is the continuations of the previous posts.




Well if you do as little reading as you clearly do this is exactly the type of ignorant conclusions you would arrive at. Their basically not oppressed anymore because the government told you so?


This isn't about my ignorance my friend, but about yours. As I stated I am an American, I see the difference in mentalities here. People willing to do the work, education, and effort it takes to get out of the getto, do. Those looking to have everything handed to them, don't. Here's an example. My Gran as a friend who has been like a great aunt to me. I have talked to her and had contact my entire life. She had polio back in the day (she's almost 80 btw) and spent her life confined to a wheelchair. She has living with her anywhere from 4 to 6 young coloured people at any given time. None of these people work in any capacity, are on welfare, and do nothing but sit around her house living off her kindness. They do not help with any type of maintance, cleansing or cooking, which were hard tasks for her to do in her youth and now are nearly impossible for her to do in her old age. Futhermore, they have stolen her checkbooks, credit cards, ran up her bills and dealt drugs out of her house. At some point her money will run out, she will be penniless for her charity to these individuals, when this happens they will find someone else to suck money out of, and continue living in bad neighborhoods. Why? Cause why work if everything will be handed to you?

Not all coloureds are like this. I understand that. Another example for you. While I was in school I made a coloured friend. She lived in the getto and hated it, so she worked really hard in our classes graduated and went to college. I had another coloured friend who is still in school because he wants to be a doctor. He works damn hard to get through the classes, and make a living for himself. I had a co-worker who was coloured and older than I was, say many times no one is in the getto who doesn't want to be. She too worked her way out, up a companies corp latter, and even though I was laid off (cause last hired usually is first fired) she was able to keep her job and still continues to thrive at that company. I have tons of stories like this... and yes, I have coloured blood in my family tree. (My uncle married a very smart coloured woman, and two of my cousins are of mixed blood and birth. Her family owns their own businesses and are very sucessful)

Again, I have eyes and ears. I don't have to listen to what the government has to say. I see how things are around me. I live here. I see it daily. You don't.




So join their cause and demand equality and reparation? Don't burn your damn bra's ( we like that BTW and especially the 'free'er love' stuff) and work a damn minimum wage job as if that somehow sets anyone 'free'.


God, that burning bra stuff happened in the 70's. We don't do that anymore. It takes a lot for a woman to be noticed including hard work. That is how I choose to combat it. Get educated, work hard, and prove myself. Women can't be treated like equals unless we act like equals. Something everyone fighting for equality has to understand.




So it's wrong to oppress someone for hundreds of years but not in your opinion 'right' to try make up for that mistake for a few hundred more? Why do you think white America should not be held responsible for the result of their actions over all these centuries? Is it not your responsibility to fix it whatever the cost?


Your logic is flawed. Your basically saying if you have been oppressed you have the right to do whatever you want with no consequence. I strongly disagree. I'm all for making things right by helping in whatever way you can to get those oppressed out of poverty but I strongly disagree with allowing crime be let go cause of the color of your skin/gender/sexual orientation. If you do this, then anarchy will happen. Come on...




Because men pretty much run the corporate world and their wives may get just a little bit jealous if they went drinking and playing golf with their female counterparts. Your numbers might be accurate but it will be insignificant on either side when compared to white males and i deep down i hope that has something to do with the possibility of a fact that women are far less easy to sucker and propagandize into becoming violent oppressors and exploiters of their fellow human beings. I hope you can grant me that 'illusion' for now?


I'm aware of the reasons behind why men run the corporate world. However what your golf game is shouldn't make you more eligible for promotion than anyone else.

As for the rest of what you say... I don't know how things are in South Africa, but in the US, it's unfounded. Please, don't make comments bout countries you don't understand.




And this type of statement just shows how desperately ignorant you must be. Do you really think that 1.4 million out of 30 odd million African Americans should end up in jail in a society where things are 'even' in any way? Why would you believe something so patently ludicrous? Do you wish to argue that African Americans are simply inherently predisposed to the type of criminality that people go to jail for in the US?


Actually no, I don't. There are good African Americans and bad ones. Just like there are good Whites and bad ones. It's pretty even if you think about it. I tend to think the African Americans that end up in jail is due to the fact that they couldn't afford proper attorneys, just like anyone in poverty. If a poor white person commits a crime he/she is just as likely to serve time just like if a poor African American does. Why is there more African Americans in jail? Well, the sad truth is that they tend to fit in the poverty class and can't afford proper attorneys. Please look at OJ Simpson Case, and the overwelming evidence against him (he was found responcible in a civil case... and wrote a book bout how he would of done it if he had... pretty suspicious.), or the Micheal Jackson case. Money buys freedom. Sucks, but true.

Ok, I have to TBC this again.. lol.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 09:24 PM
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Ok this should be the last... I think. StellarX.




Yes but grants in what type of amount and to what type of places? What type of scholarships ( athletics?) and to what type of students and how much does that help when people live in the environments they are forced to?


I'm so very glad you asked. Knowledge is power, and if this can help anyone who is willing to get themselves out of poverty and is willing to do the work and effort, then all this discussion is worth it to me.

One grant you can get is the Pell Grant. It's a good way to get a free 5,000 dollars a year (or more, been years since I used it) for low income students (reguardless of race or creed). You don't have to pay it back, and it was more than enough for you to cover tution and books at any community college. Many Community Colleges offer Associates Degree programs that would only take 2 years of full time classes to get through and is the first step towards a Bachelors Degree. Here are some links with more information.

www.ed.gov...

You can apply for the pell and federal loans (which you qualify for over the age of 23 and isn't based on credit scores and not to mention you don't have to pay back till 6 months after graduation or ceasing classes) at this link.

www.fafsa.ed.gov...

Not all scholarships are athletic ones, and you can find a lot geared directly at the African American Community. Here are some links that can point anyone who wants to know in the right direction.

www.blackexcel.org...

www.littleafrica.com...

So there you go. It's there for you to see. Didn't even take that much searching for... Google is your friend!




Sure but what's the odds given the circumstances and conditions they must overcome; how many Caucasians would overcome such conditions and why don't that many millions do so?


I can only attribute it to either not knowing these resources exist or fear of not being able to succeed. I've used the Pell and Federal loans, they work. They don't ask your race, and it doesn't matter. Many people don't want or aren't intelligent enough to go to college, which limits career opportunities. That makes success much harder to obtain. The factory Jobs that helped create middle class jobs are becoming slowly extinct by outsourcing or machines. Back in the day, all you needed was a high school diploma for these jobs, and you would make a very decent wage. You wouldn't get rich, but you would be more than capable to be out of poverty.




How and where? Do you realise that in much of the world ( including the US) the poor are worse off than they were just five years ago to say nothing of forty years ago?


Considering I have been poor and are still considered poor, yes I realize that. I can survive if i budget things properly. It's not easy, but it's doable. You just need to know how to use public resources ( at least in the US...) like libraries, or phone books. There are food pantries, food stamps, and WIC if your needing food. There is electric/water assistance if you need help with those things. It's amazing what you can learn with some research.




This is almost laughable but i suppose you really believe that those 'stupid blacks' are just failing because they are lesser human beings that just can't perform in the modern world. It's sad to see even more validation that racism is alive and well; it's no surprise but one hopes...


I will be the first to tell you blacks are far from stupid and as I have stated in the past 3 posts, I know several make it out of the getto's and use the resources available.. Seriously... anyone can work there way out. Takes hard work and knowledge. I hope if anyone on this thread reads this, can use the links I've posted to do so.

I live in the US, StellarX. As I have said. I see more about the conditions here than you. Head someone who knows by experience.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 12:03 AM
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When a car is locked in a Garage and the Keys are hidden away, they are considered secure; yet in the middle of the night a thief can can drive it away, unknown to the unaware. There are convenient places to conceal the small and large, yet it is still possible to make off with them.But if you hide the world in the world, there is no possibility of getting away. This is the great reality that is constant withing our world!



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by omi_kron_gravitron
 



As far as "evidence" goes.

I offer you two choices in how you can obtain that "evidence" for my posts.

1. If you are American, go outside and open your eyes.

2. If not, simply spend a bit of time, an hour should suffice, reading around ATS.


Both of those should provide sufficient evidence.


In regards to your number 6.


Sure, some American's do have it WAYYY too good to be (this word makes mods cry)ing and moaning about how bad America is. However, that equates to about .5% of the overall population.

According to your logic, if I understood it correctly, because we still have a better life (even with the tyranny) than most other citizens in other countries do, we should just stop our whining and go about our lives? Hmm, I would attest that that is the kind of thinking that landed those other citizens in other countries EXACTLY where they are now.

Personally, I'm of the philosophy that you squash a problem BEFORE it gets out of control, as opposed to, waiting for that problem to get bad enough for it to be deemed "(this word makes mods cry) worthy" by other nations before you act.


I'm not of the mindset that "if it's good enough for your country, it's good enough for mine".

If I wanted to live in Peru or South Africa, I would live in Peru or South Africa. However, I am an American and I want my America to reach it's full potential, not sink so low that it can never be picked back up.


Thanks,
Jasn



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
The problems in the black community today are a result of their own doing.


I know you want to believe that it's not your fault but i do not care much for circular arguments. Black people people did not live that way before they were enslaved.


When 7 out of every 10 black kids born today are born into a single parent home, that should be an indicator that blacks are not taking responsibility for their actions.


Because the American government chooses to lock up black men for ridiculous reasons. All around the world these same conditions exists in very poor communities where violence is encouraged by police behaviour.


Ever think thats because they act far worse than the norm?


Because they are treated far worse than the norm ? Do you not realise that the conditions that are being created for America's black poor leads directly to their behaviours?


I am not black, I was a poor white kid who used common sense. Education isn't needed to know that murder, rape, and robbery is illegal.


I knew you were white as i hear the same arguments from white South-Africans/Americans every day. The fact that you think white poverty i the US is comparable to African American poverty speaks volumes as to just how well propagandized you have been.


Bwahahahaha. 500 billion in 60 years? Give me a break, where the hell are you getting that info?


Well if suppose we are using very different definitions of what welfare is. Do you think social security and pension plans should be counted as welfare if American citizens are funding such programs themselves? I am talking about the tax money that has been diverted to actually help people above and beyond the services they are paying for anyways.

If you are willing to supply sources for your claim i will do the same.


Why are you so unwilling to place blame where it rightly belongs? On blacks.


Because it is racist and ignorant and circular reasoning? I know you WANT to believe the victims are to blame for their victim status but that is not in my opinion true.


If the black community wants to see an improvement in their lives, perhaps less liquor stores, wig shops, and sports apparel stores in black neighborhoods would be a good idea.


Which happens to the the exact things poor whites do? Why do you refuse to acknowledge that this is a question of POVERTY and not of race and genetics? Are you so racist that you can not even realise such a obvious truth?


How about the unconstitutionality of reserving public funds for one specific race?


I agree and i think white Americans should pay for taking far more than their fair share of the public treasury.


We have a VOLUNTEER military here,


Sure and that's why you must pay such large bribes to find recruits and retain skilled men?


everyone CHOOSES to enlist. For whatever reason they choose, ultimately they make a conscious choice to SIGN THEIR NAMES on the dotted line. No one is forced into military service.


Many recruits are given false information about where they will be posted and what type of benefits they will get so while it's 'free' those who enlist do NOT frequently have the option to find a nice manufacturing job seeing how those are disappearing as mist before the sun. Do you realise that wages for people with high school degrees in the US have declined by about 25% since the mid 70's?


Stellar



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by JessicaS
StellerX -- First of all, I would like to apologize for assuming you were American. Clearly the history books you get in South Africa are not even close to the history books in the US.
BC.


I see that your racist ideology is well laid down so i will need a few days to work up the energy to respond to so much nonsense and bigotry.

Stellar



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX


Originally posted by JessicaS
StellerX -- First of all, I would like to apologize for assuming you were American. Clearly the history books you get in South Africa are not even close to the history books in the US.
BC.


I see that your racist ideology is well laid down so i will need a few days to work up the energy to respond to so much nonsense and bigotry.

Stellar


Stellar, please read through all the enclosed links, and empower yourself with knowledge. That's all I ask of you.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by fweshcawfee
It's good to see that eventually you aren't above admitting when you're wrong, I still had to press you a bit though.


And why would i do that had i realised my error earlier?


It's amazing how many people will refuse to acknowledge personal error even when confronted with the facts refuting their accusations, that seemed to be the route you were taking initially... at least in the end you submitted, that counts for something at least.


Well there are a few things i WANT to believe but those are rare and i do my best to stick what is supportable with actual evidence hence my lack of interest in defending the mistakes ( and real mistakes, not nonsense like this ) i have made while arguing my ideas on this forum. I have seen at least a few who will admit errors like the one i made here but your right in stating the the average ignorant bigot will rather stop responding before admitting that they are human enough to be making mistakes!


Apology accepted, just be more careful in the future and don't misquote me again.


Well i got all my stabs in during my initial apology so what's with the threats we both know your not going to be able to make good on? Why involve so much pride and ego in a internet discussion? Are you here to learn or not?

Stellar



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by JessicaS
 


Unlike you i will in fact read BOTH sides of the story instead of mindlessly following the media line and blaming oppressed slaves ( they apparently had to 'fix' hundreds of years of oppression in three decades flat) for all the societal ills they are suffering from.

It's just amazing that well to do white folk are so happy blaming the victims for everything and anything that is going wrong for them instead of taking up the common struggle to improve each other's societal and living conditions by COOPORATION. Then again i am pretty sure African Americans will just get ripped off some more so it's not problem with a simply resolution in sight.

Stellar



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


I personally find it sad that you didn't read a single word of my posts. I live in this country StellarX, I have coloured family (by marriage and blood) and none of them will say they are oppressed and all of them say that the only people who claim that are the ones who don't wish to do the work. Please read through my posts, the links, and instead of believing negitivity take a look at actual history.

Tell me why, those who have worked to get out of the gettos (which btw, my white mother lived in as a child cause she came from a broken home and her mother, my grandmother still live in to this day) do, and those who do not put the effort in don't. Do you honestly think poverty is only bout race or could it be possible that those who spend generations in poverty lacking effort? Whites/blacks/mexicans/etc are all poor, and those who aren't actively trying to get out, by work and dedication, seem to feel that the goverment owes them... I've worked with this mentality... I've seen it in action. Have you spent any time here at all, and gotten to know those who are in the gettos?

Do you think it might be because of the ridged coloured belief that they are owed a living because of the slavery of there ancestors? A belief you seem to share?

Why is it I know many who were born with nothing raising themselves up and out? How can they verbally tell me that all it takes is work and dedication, and you... who lives in another country and only reads about conditions in the US tell me it's oppression?

Where is your logic to say you know more than those of us who live here?


*edit to clarify and make better sense.

[edit on 9/11/2007 by JessicaS]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by JessicaS
I personally find it sad that you didn't read a single word of my posts.


I started but i will respond later in full and i know EXACTLY where you were going with all that typing.


I live in this country StellarX, I have coloured family (by marriage and blood) and none of them will say they are oppressed and all of them say that the only people who claim that are the ones who don't wish to do the work.


I would call you a liar but i suppose that wont be nice so i wont. You think these family members are representative of African American society as a whole and are you aware of how often the oppressed have been educated to hate themselves and believe that they are in fact to blame?


Please read through my posts, the links, and instead of believing negitivity take a look at actual history.


I have taken a very good look at history and your selective usage of information in a attempt to support your racial bias wont work on me. I live in a country with plenty of racist and i know their stupid reasoning and self deceptive logic inside out.


Tell me why, those who have worked to get out of the gettos (which btw, my white mother lived in as a child cause she came from a broken home and her mother, my grandmother still live in to this day) do, and those who do not put the effort in don't.


So the few who do manage to beat the odds turn on those who were not quite so able , or sometimes even traitors to their community, and go into self indulgent songs of praise about their own ability? How arrogant and ignorant do you wish me to believe you are?


Do you honestly think poverty is only bout race or could it be possible that those who spend generations in poverty lacking effort?


I expressly told you that it is NOT about race but i suppose that does not suit your agenda. Why do you insist on trying to argue that those who are poorer than yourself deserve to be there trough their own lack of effort? Why do most of America's poor work one or sometimes two jobs? Does that not count for effort? Do you really wish to continue with this mockery of others by saying that they must simply be lazy for failing to do well in a country where the system is bent on suppressing them?


Whites/blacks/mexicans/etc are all poor, and those who aren't actively trying to get out, by work and dedication, seem to feel that the goverment owes them...


The government DOES owe them a decent living wage for working all day long! What the hell is the point of government if it can not arrange the wealth of America to guarantee that everyone has a warm place to sleep and at least a few meals a day? Why are they called the working poor of they do not work and where the hell are they supposed to find jobs if the US government exports all the jobs to countries where slave labour is the norm? Don't you get ANY of this?


I've worked with this mentality... I've seen it in action. Have you spent any time here at all, and gotten to know those who are in the gettos?


I have seen poverty first hand and noticed just how hard people try to overcome it only to pressed down again and again for centuries on end until many of them simply lose hope as human beings in such conditions logically should. From this it may be deduced that you know not a thing about real poverty or what it does to the human spirit.


Do you think it might be because of the ridged coloured belief that they are owed a living because of the slavery of there ancestors? A belief you seem to share?


Sure they are and why they hell should the oppressors not be made to pay for their crimes? Not all victims of oppression suffer from Stockholm type syndromes where they become the oppressors or accept their logic and learn to hate the poor themselves.


Why is it I know many who were born with nothing raising themselves up and out?


Because some do and your memory is very selective? Do you realise that America is now the rated worse in the industrialized west in terms of the number of poor who manage to work themselves into wealth? Do you know any of this?


How can they verbally tell me that all it takes is work and dedication, and you...


Because they are deceiving themselves and believing the propaganda they keep hearing on the TV. I mean who does not want to believe that all it takes is hard work and dedication? I want to believe that but by looking at the world and the USA it's OBVIOUS that it is not true.


who lives in another country and only reads about conditions in the US tell me it's oppression?


Because it clearly is and it's ADMITTED by US state officials in their contingency planning for controlling riots and dealing with the poor that are deliberately keeping poor.


Where is your logic to say you know more than those of us who live here?


Because the US is not a unique country with unique events and some of us study the correlations between global policies and global poverty.

Stellar



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Courtesy is still mandatory

Please make an attempt to remain civil.

Thank you



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


StellarX-- You have seen poverty, not poverty IN THE UNITED STATES. There are many government programs to HELP RAISE POOR OUT OF POVERTY. I don't live in South Africa, or any other country, I live in the US. That means, I know better than you, who only reads bout things here then later ASSUMES things.

The key to getting a job with a decent wage, is education. The way to use education is to use the grants, scholarships, and government loans. IF you don't wish to do secondary education, then your stuck with poor paying jobs. This is common knowledge here in the US.

There is no excuse of any AMERICAN TO REMAIN POOR, except laziness. Here, if you get a degree, your going to get higher wages than just a high school diploma. That's how things are, how they have been. This is why there is still a huge flood of illegal immigrants, and legal immigrants into this country, they want a better life for their children, a life that yes, America does provide.

Don't apply what you see in your country to others. Just shows how closed minded and bigoted you are towards anyone who isn't like you. Things aren't the same around the world. Realize this, embrace it.

Read my actual post... especially the part about educational support. It's the third down. Then take a trip and come here (if you can afford it) and go into the getto's and talk to and meet the people who live there.

I won't respond to you again... it's clear your a racist towards anyone who isn't black/coloured, and I'm not about to deal with that. I will say that racism is always wrong, no matter what direction it goes towards.

Just one thing...


The government DOES owe them a decent living wage for working all day long! What the hell is the point of government if it can not arrange the wealth of America to guarantee that everyone has a warm place to sleep and at least a few meals a day? Why are they called the working poor of they do not work and where the hell are they supposed to find jobs if the US government exports all the jobs to countries where slave labour is the norm? Don't you get ANY of this?


There are goverment programs that offer housing, food, ultilty assistance, and childcare to help with expenses. Here is a link of said program.

www.hud.gov...
www.fns.usda.gov...
liheap.ncat.org...

If you were to use the aboved programs while using the educational programs mentioned earlier, you could get yourself into a job that will lift you out of poverty. This is the land of oppertunity, and though alot of jobs have been outsourced, there are plenty of other jobs, if you get the education that make well above that. Please look through everything before speaking.

[edit on 9/11/2007 by JessicaS]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:09 PM
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Alright, I asked you guys to PLEASE not derail my topic with this black vs. white crap. However, since neither of you felt like taking my advice, I might as well interject my opinion on the subject.

Black people NOW have no one to blame but themselves for ANY problem they face.

Sure, you guys got dealt a bad hand with the slavery and civil rights issues and one would be a fool to deny that.

However, I'm willing to bet that a good majority of you guys here and a good majority of those black people in prison NEVER spent a day of their lives as slaves. As a matter of fact, I can GUARANTEE that 100% of the black population in America has never lived a day of his/her life as a slave. Naturally, this only goes toward those of you who were born here and not enslaved by your own people in another country before coming here.

I'm also willing to bet that the majority of the black prison population never had to worry about using a blacks only toilet or water fountain.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO stop using this crap as an EXCUSE. That's all it is, a freaking excuse and nothing more.

You guys have been listening to Jesse, Louis and Al for FAR to long.

I have had many a job in my short 26 years, but you know what? I have never had a job in which I did not have a good many BLACK superiors. So the job discrimination crap has got to go. If you wanna talk job discrimination, go talk to the white guy or hispanic woman that got passed over for a job so it could go to a less qualified black person because of affirmative action. THAT is some job discrimination for ya.

Also, this whole argument about gun stores and liquor stores being stategically placed in black neighborhoods to keep the black man down. COME ON! One of the first rules of business is, put your business in a location that is easily accessible to your most frequent clientelle. Has it EVER occurred to you guys that Hill Street Booze and Al's Gun Emporium may be located just off Martin Luther King Jr. BLVD because that's the area that their best customers liven in? Also, are you "cracka" hatin black guys saying that your "people" are so easily led and ignorant that if someone places a gun shop/liquor store anywhere near them they simply can't help but spend their money there? Personally, I give most of the black people I know more credit than that.

You know, MAYBE the reason that 60% or more of the prison population is black is because 60% or more of the crimes committed in this country are committed by blacks. Do you think that might POSSIBLY be an explanation?

Hell, in the area I live in, cops are petrified of arresting black folks for petty crimes for fear of "racism" being called on them.

Perhaps the REAL devil that plagues the black population is the majority of black "stars" living such a public "thug" lifestyle before they go to their multi-million dollar home in the suburb.

Personally, I think it's about time this "oppressed black man" MYTH needs to DIE. You guys are no more oppressed for being black than I am for having long hair.

You know, I go to several job interviews a week and have for the last several months and EVERYTIME I go to one, if there are 6 black guys there...5 of them are wearing pants hanging off their (worty dird) with all kinds of "bling" hanging off them sitting in the lobby twisting their hair and talking trash. Then, I see those same guys at the day labor office talking about how they don't know why they didn't get hired. Guess what? That one nicely dressed guy that was ACTING PROFESSIONAL usually isn't back at the day labor place that day.

I know some of you militant types think us white folks get our free "being white" check delivered to us in our mansion daily....but guess what? It don't freaking happen. I have missed many a job BECAUSE I AM WHITE and the company didn't have enough positions filled by black people to be able to hire me or any of the other white folks/hispanic folks in there. But, you know what? We move on to the next job and HOPE we get a chance at it instead of whining that we didn't get the job because of the color of our skin.

Perhaps those of you militant type black folks would find far less problems in life if you would cease trying to find EXCUSES why your live is so hard.

You have the same rights that us white folks have, the only difference is, you'd rather whine about how hard being black is than actually TRY.

As for you black people that DON'T live the stereotype, please forgive me as I am not talking about you. I'm sure you guys know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

The biggest problem most black people face in this country now is THEMSELVES. Not the white devil down the road or their great great granddaddy being a slave.

Stop playing victim and you MIGHT just get somewhere in life. Or you could always kill a bunch of crackas and blame it on the gun store that's two blocks from your house.....then "brother" Jesse and "brother" Al could come to your aid and get you a few million bucks suing the gun manufacturer for making a black gun that you felt needed to be freed from it's bondage in that gun case.

I think Edward Norton said it best, "(f-bomb) the uptown brothers. They never pass the ball, they don't want to play defense, they take five steps on every lay-up to the hoop. And then they want to turn around and blame everything on the white man. Slavery ended one hundred and thirty seven years ago. Move the (f-bomb) on!"


or


maybe it was Chris Rock, "Who's more racist, black people or white people? Black people, why? Because we hate black people too."

As a note, I would like to add the rest of Chris Rock's "Black People vs Niggaz" commentary.....but the mods would eat me alive on that one. I left the "n-word" intact because it's a quote and I absolutely abhor political correctness. However, Chris Rock makes MANY good points in that rant that attest to what I'm saying here. Funny though, when he says it, he's not a racist, he's just a comedian.


Jasn



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


Sorry for derailing your thread. I personally hate the "it'sll the white man's fault we live in da getto" And as I've written there are ways out of the getto.

I completely agree with you, in just about everything you have said. I posted alot of links, that if anyone who IS in poverty want out, they have the information and resources how to get out.

The US has many faults.... the race card isn't it these days.



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 04:45 AM
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I fully agree.

The whole "terror" issue has pushed people further out of reality, as they find escapes in media... entertainment. It's the mental, political, philisophical, spiritual and overall downfall of the small amount of freedom that we have left. Not to ,mention over prescribed drugs to zombie-fi us into a state of euphoria while we watch tv, have meaning less relationships and sex, vote for reality tv shows, eat McDonalds and talk on our cells. Human personal interaction is dead.



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