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Originally posted by budski
Why is everyone so sure that marijuana is a victimless crime?
Originally posted by budski
it's against the law, the law costs money to enforce - thats taxpayers money.
Originally posted by budski
criminal gangs import marijuana, amongst other drugs, this in turn provides money for other criminal activities, which in turn costs taxpayers money.
Originally posted by budski
How many people are caught up in gang violence as a direct result of gang warfare over drugs territory?
Originally posted by budski
As for prostitution being a victimless crime - I won't even dignify that with an answer - the links between prostitution/crime/drugs/violence/HIV/STD's etc etc are all well established and documented. To think otherwise shows a profound lack of knowledge of crime and social issues.
Originally posted by budski
This thread isn't about changing the law to suit people who promote marijuana use, it's about the population levels of US prisons and the reasons for this.
Marijuana possession/importing/dealing is currently against the law - no matter what people think of the law, that is how it stands.
The law is not the subject of the thread.
Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Originally posted by budski
I've already posted stats showing that drug possession is a minor contributor to the jail population.
possession, maybe, but drug related crime, like drug turf war violence, or robberies are also related to the war on drugs. If drugs were legalized we'd have to remove those percentages too. The WoD is a big percentage of the prison population budski.
Originally posted by budski
That's all very well, but you're completely ignoring the social consequences of widespread drug use - and I include legal drugs like nicotine and alcohol.
And there are many social consequences that you seem to either not see or ignore.
No offense
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Make all that stuff legal, but then how long do you need to wait until you can legally drive your car after a joint or two when the THC stays in your system for weeks. You also need to allow employers to test when ever they want to protect their company. Also unless you get a baby sitter when you are stoned you might loose custody of your kids.
People act like problems go away but it just creates a whole new set.
[edit on 22-8-2007 by Xtrozero]
Originally posted by Xtrozero
You also need to allow employers to test when ever they want to protect their company.
Also unless you get a baby sitter when you are stoned you might loose custody of your kids.
Originally posted by budski
That's all very well, but you're completely ignoring the social consequences of widespread drug use - and I include legal drugs like nicotine and alcohol.
Originally posted by budski
And there are many social consequences that you seem to either not see or ignore.
No offense
Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Okay Budski, fair enough.
I just want to ask 2 questions.
1. Do you believe that drug laws are a major contributor to the prison population in the US? This includes drug related crime, not just possession and trafficking.
2. What do you attribute the high prison populations to?
For violent offenses, the number of persons in prison began at 173,300 in 1980 and increased to a high of 650,400 in 2003.
For property offenses, the number of persons in prison began at 89,300 in 1980 and rose to 262,000 in 2003.
For drug offenses, the number of persons in prison began at 19,000 in 1980 and rose, reaching 265,000 in 2002. Then the number decreased to 250,900 in 2003.
For public order offenses, the number of persons in prison began at 12,400 in 1980 and increased to a high of 129,900 in 2001. The number then decreased, reaching 86,400 in 2003.
Originally posted by budski
The drug laws themselves aren't a contributor - people using/supplying/importing etc drugs are the cause. Marijuana is not a major contributor to prison population, but other drugs are.
Originally posted by Boondock78
Originally posted by budski
The drug laws themselves aren't a contributor - people using/supplying/importing etc drugs are the cause. Marijuana is not a major contributor to prison population, but other drugs are.
i can't believe you actualy believe this....it's not the laws
you do know why it was made illegal right?
when it was legal, there were not these problems. they try to play nanny and now we have problems......
Originally posted by budski
Ok, so why not make everything legal - crack, coke, heroin the lot!
The problem there is that there is a definate innocent victim of this crime. I know you see the difference.
and while your at it, why not make rogering minors legal - I mean some people like it and if it weren't against the law, no-one would hear about it, and the problem's gone.
Hell, why not legalise violence - if someone get's beaten up it must be their fault, right?
Show me how that's part of the logical trail?
And of course by your logic, it's the womans fault for dressing provocatively if she gets raped.
Why should something be legal, just because a few stoners say it causes no problems - show me real stats or evidence to back up your case, rather than just opinion and rhetoric, and I might listen - until then, you have no case.
Holland has legal marijuana venues in Amsterdam - and they still have large amounts of drug crimes from marijuana usage and other harder drug usage.
Originally posted by budski