Let me preface this with a brief explanation:

I feel inclined to write in this forum because the nature of this post deals with speculation of both 9/11 and the following conduct of the Bush administration (and related branches of government). It is a combination of observations gained from my own experience, the following cultural/military movement, a personal questioning of official reports, and study of resources offering alternative theories for the days event.

Most importantly,

I hope to begin a discussion that will solidify information already posted here and elsewhere, and align this with an urgent need to uncover the current intentions/plans of officials within the executive branch, the pentagon (meaning leadership in the military), and law enforcement both within the justice dept. and clandestine agencies such as the CIA or NSA.

In terms of 9/11, it seems as though the majority of this site has reached a consensus that it was an inside job. In reading ATS the past few months, I too have gained greater perspective, and I must commend those who have committed their time and efforts to debating and probing the many inadequacies of official reports and even greater evidences of worse.

That being said, it seems counterproductive to limit our debate to that event alone. Lets take a moment to accept our progress in that field and apply this perspective in understanding events and our leaders conduct post 9/11.

Let met suggest a few points to consider when replying to this post:

The expansion of the military following 9/11.

Spending has grown into monstrous numbers, tho reports throughout the conflict have chronically and categorically described a lack of proper funding for equipment/medical care/rebuilding efforts. Where has this money been spent?

Also, reports suggest there are 200,000 firearms missing,

iraqi army: 120,000
police force: 6000 (DoD estimates).

Assuming most of their weapons are accounted for, how could the military lose a figure eclipsing that amount? If this is true, they have armed a force larger than the one they have assembled!

In one incident, 12 bil. USD was lost in Iraq, under the supervision of the military. This is only one reported incident.

over the span of the conflict, an estimated 100k-200k barrels of oil have disspeared within the country per day. Thats 292 million barrels of oil.


A wholesale gutting of laws protecting civil liberties
-The PATRIOT ACT
-The unchecked surveillance of communication by the NSA, endorsed by the white house, the justice dept. and now, ironically, a democratic congress. Now, by the letter of the law, citizens have lost all legal due process.

Suspicion created by these are compounded in the language of Executive orders 12919/12656 (look it up).

All told, our Executive Branch now has the power to shut down our entire democracy and suspend the enforcement of the constitution.


Iran. the rhetoric is intense, detailing the possibility that Nuclear weapons may be employed. The Iran situation is curious from the start. A cursory observation of recent history unveils a more immediate contradiction: Iraq/Afghanistan were, preinvasion, Irans greatest counterbalance. While our govt continues to agitate Iran, it fails to address that we have handed it the region on a platter.

Now:

-Snr officials in all levels of the govt. are hinting at greater "terrorist" chatter.

-Govt Representatives suppress unrest by insisting we wait until
September when reports will be finished and a new light will shed itself on the conflict.

-Trent Lott on DC: "it would probably be good to stay out until Sept. 12th"

-Economic Patterns mirror those pre 9/11: massive sell offs, buybacks, market instability.

-DHS/Cheney draft post "2nd 9/11" contigency plan implicating Iran

-Naval Presence in Gulf grows

-And Today, RNC matermind Karl Rove resigns effective 9/1.



[edit on 14-8-2007 by chaeone86]

The next time you are faced with a debunker who is stubborn with the idea that our government could NEVER carry out such an atrocity, tell them this

"If the government had conducted itself in another way after the attack I may feel differently. However, every move, every law enacted and posture taken proves my point."

There is nothing more damning to the Bush administration and connected agencies than their own conduct. When engaging in speculation about 9/11, we must remember that following the attack, this government has only implicated itself further in its ensuing actions.

Now we stand 5 years later with an overwhelming degree of evidence to our cause. Laws have been written ensuring the country to Bush, bypassing a 2008 election and catapulting this democracy into facism.

What is coming 9/2007? If there is 9/11 truth, it does not bode well for this situation.

That is why it is so important we end speculation now and begin action. Constant squabbling, nit picking, and personal attacks will not bring down the criminals we seek to overthrow. And, while we continue to release movies with the same info, same story, different graphics, the powers that be continue to obstruct the constitution and plan worse behind close doors.

I have not created this thread to scare people. I myself live in manhattan, with family in DC and Boston. I lost family on 9/11 as well. Now, with years gone by from that day, I sit here questioning all I've been told about how they died and what it has been for. And I simply cannot stand it.

I am writing on this to try and shake the core of this forum. We already agree on far more than we need to. Its time to do something about it.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by chaeone86]

[edit on 14-8-2007 by chaeone86]

I must also remind readers that within this rhetoric detailing a nuclear strike on Iran lies a greater complexity.

Even in the face of a massive terrorist attack, the international community would not accept the use of Nuclear Arms except in a retaliatory fashion. The Bush Administration and leaders within the Military are fully aware that deployment of Nuclear Arms in Iran unprovoked by a similar type of weapon would bring the age-old "mutually assured destruction" of earth via Russia and those who would ally against us in digust for our actions.

Therefore, it must be considered that any coming plot like that on 9/11 will involve nuclear weapons, in order to permit the acceptable use of them in retaliation.

chaeone86
What are you going to do when nothing happens??? Eat your own words.
Seriously you Americans have a serious paranoia problem.

9/11 was perpetrated by terrorists from Saudi Arabia who trained in Afghanistan.
The twin towers collapsed because the impact of the planes damaged the steel super structure.
The reason why the towers collapsed in a nice pile is because they were designed to do that.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by SKUNK2]

In response to skunk:

while i welcome your point of view, i should remind you this post is not intended to solicit further debate on the events of 9/11 themselves, but rather to formulate an outlook on future events assuming there is validity to speculative theories supplied by 9/11 truth, this site, and other resources supporting such claims. With this in mind, your post is rather unnecessary/counterproductive here.

However, I would like to address what you have said in an attempt to realign this discussion.

As for Paranoia in the USA:

I agree with you completely here-- Americans are steeped in fear and paranoia, and may I point out that since 9/11, the most active participant in scaring the population has been the government itself. This goes without saying, or need to source my statement. A basic analysis of bush administration/republican/defense policy and rhetoric provides all the proof i need. Since september 2001, we have seen the use of terrorism as a political tool to suppress civilian and democratic unrest, goad policy-makers into submitting to irrational and harmful legislation, strong-arm unprecedented spending increases in the military, and influence public opinion during elections.

Meanwhile, throughout this mobilization of anti-terror sentiment and subsequent policy decisions, we have seen little to no progress in the fight against "al qaeda." One needs to look no further than the recent NIE, which placed the strength of the alleged organization at "pre 9/11 levels."

If this is so, what have we accomplished in the past 6 years? It begs many questions (unanswered questions) about the effectiveness of our governments actions since that day, and more fundamentally, their intentions altogether.

This argument stand alone, without even addressing the schizophrenic relationships our government, in both a public and clandestine manner, has held with our current adversaries over the past 30 years. Do some research-- its well accepted that we supported, trained and bank-rolled the militarization of the Middle eastern region throught the 80s to wear away at the soviet union. Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Muhujadeen, and Bin laden himself were once considered our allies against the red tide of Russia.

Is it that we created a monster? the proverbial dog that bit back? if that is true, then why has it been so difficult to track down and suppress this opposition, given the fact we, not many years prior, controlled and manipulated this group for our own needs? 6 years, billions of dollars, over 3000 american lives and the government itself admits "al qaeda" has seen little loss of power.

this raises the question of whether our government is still using this loose association of organizations to suit their ends, only now in a more sinister fashion.

Yes, americans are paranoid, and for good reason. As I previously stated, the conduct of our government post 9/11 has only supported the assertions of those questioning the official story.

As for "if nothing happens"

I find this insulting. I would gladly accept being wrong, "eating my words" as you have said. Unfortunately, after 6 years of being told about nuclear 9/11s and the growing drumbeat for a nuclear war in Iran, I find myself questioning the safety of myself and members of my family. If our government was just in its intentions, i would have never felt this way to begin with.

And for your own enrichment, I suggest you re-visit the events of 9/11 before making conclusions about building designs and contingent measures in the event of a collapse.

If you are right in suggesting that the towers were designed to collapse into themselves, so be it. However, I have never read this anywhere in two years of research. Also, if this were true, the event would have proceeded as a collapse, not an complete pulverization of the structure at free-fall speed.

That was an explosion, and unlike you, I had family in there. So please do not address my perfectly justified inquiries for truth as baseless paranoia, fueled by some perceived mental instability. You don't what its like to have your family's name exploited every day for war and continued bloodshed, and considering the long list of F*&$ ups in the process, I have every right to be suspicious.

Originally posted by chaeone86
I must also remind readers that within this rhetoric detailing a nuclear strike on Iran lies a greater complexity.

What rhetoric is that? Rhetoric detailing a nuclear strike on Iran? I must have missed that. Where can I find it?

oh im bored if someone is going to start a war start it allready....and u better make it world war couse school is coming.....going to a place full of posers and people u just wanna hit.....damn school sucks thank god last year

Originally posted by SKUNK2
9/11 was perpetrated by terrorists from Saudi Arabia who trained in Afghanistan.
The twin towers collapsed because the impact of the planes damaged the steel super structure.
The reason why the towers collapsed in a nice pile is because they were designed to do that.

Personally, I would love to see the supportive documentation you have that absolutely confirms the above assertions.

Meanwhile,
- There is documentation that demonstrates several of the so-called pilots in fact took flight training at facilities here in the states.

- The towers were in fact designed to withstand Multiple strikes by a 707, the largest commercial aircraft at the time of their construction. The impacts alone were most certainly not cause enough for a complete, utter, and universal failure.

- Designed to collapse into a nice pile? Not quite sure how to wrap mah head 'round that "statement". How exactly does one design a 110 story steel structure to collapse into a "nice pile", when one has NO control whatsoever over the myriad of potential future causes for such? Is that to say that if the towers had been struck by an earthquake of sufficient magnitude, that they would have collapsed into the same-type said "nice pile"?

$.02

ahhahahaah nice pile that was really funny
maybe the planes hit strategic points in the buildings?

Unisol please try and post more meaningful discourse if you must post at all. I appreciate your response, but i found some of your comments rather inflammatory and unnecessary. If you are so sick of school, and have "one year left" as you have stated, try and live up to your words and refrain from writing such immature and ill-conceived things.

We all have a duty to make this site a legitimate place for discussion, and I must respectfully say that you are not living up to this obligation.

It is such poorly considered thoughts that have diminished those who seek to challenge the corruption in our government. If we cannot take ourselves seriously, no one will.

and, 12m8keall2c, thank you for supporting my statements with further words about the collapse. I am hoping, tho, that we can return to the root of the discussion and cease from further nit-picking of events surrounding 9/11 and onto the subsequent actions of the government today.

We need to begin looking to the forward, and apply lessons learned to the coming days. to quote the old adage "history repeats itself." 9/11 is a history we cannot hope to repeat. Meanwhile, indications in several areas are pointing to the next catastrophe (stated in my first post).

We are watching the storm gather while arguing about last weeks rain.





[edit on 14-8-2007 by chaeone86]

Originally posted by chaeone86
... I lost family on 9/11 as well. Now, with years gone by from that day, I sit here questioning all I've been told about how they died and what it has been for...

Sorry for your loss. Whether there is preparations for more planned tragic events by our government or just the restructuring of America for personal gain by a select few, I agree something is happening. I really hope that it is only the actions of some very incompetent and self serving people. I feel the border situation points to economic gain or an open door for a real attack to base a further unleashing of the military machine. On thing is sure, big oil has had an economic field day.

Dear Cheyone86,
Wow I am pretty impressed. This is the first time that I have noticed you and your words. I enjoyed your ideas.

I have a question/idea. I understand your point about reaching the point of actually doing something about this. but what are your ideas/visions of how this would come about? What kind of country would you see after that? Even if you chop off the heads of the tops, similar ones will just keep popping up, do you agree? After all, I think that the "leaders" are just extreme manifestations of the "bad" in our society. Like fear, power over, control. I feel that this thing that we have to "do" is not have a revolution and replace them with similar people, but get to the source of all of it. What do you see as the source of it all?

Is man inherently evil?
Is it Satan's influence?
Are evil "program" reptilians controlling the leaders (a la Icke)
Does man live life from an individual egoic perspective, separating himself/herself from God/being/the universe and therefore living in fear of "other" (therefore gaining security with control/power)
Are the top guys just a bunch of bastards?

I think that education is really important, and a lot of people educate themselves here. So, would your "doing" involve simple getting the word out more and more? What should we do?

I look forward to your response.

Yours

Excellent post chaeone86

I am writing on this to try and shake the core of this forum. We already agree on far more than we need to. Its time to do something about it.

I am open to any and all sugestions regarding this matter. What do/cam we do? For the sake of discussion lets say a nuclear device is detonated on U.S soil. What can we really do about it?
Are you sugesting we take up arms against the powers that be? What would be the proper approach for this dire situation?
I like how you presented this topic, good read

Originally posted by chaeone86
I must also remind readers that within this rhetoric detailing a nuclear strike on Iran lies a greater complexity.

Even in the face of a massive terrorist attack, the international community would not accept the use of Nuclear Arms except in a retaliatory fashion. The Bush Administration and leaders within the Military are fully aware that deployment of Nuclear Arms in Iran unprovoked by a similar type of weapon would bring the age-old "mutually assured destruction" of earth via Russia and those who would ally against us in digust for our actions.

Therefore, it must be considered that any coming plot like that on 9/11 will involve nuclear weapons, in order to permit the acceptable use of them in retaliation.

That's a very good point. I'm not convinced if the use of a radiological weapon (dirty bomb) could achieve the same level of hysteria. There certainly seems to be enough fear mongering going on to pave the way for that kind of attack. Maybe a dirty bomb combined with enough hysterical propaganda might be all that is required to "justify" the use of a nuclear retaliation?

What's coming in September? With tongue planted firmly in cheek, I'll have to say the same thing that happened in June, July, and August, only 15 to 20 degrees cooler.