Originally posted by chaeone86


Also, reports suggest there are 200,000 firearms missing,

I know were they went, the US soldiers sell them to the oposition, i know because i have a friend who was in afghanistan recently and he bought 2 assault rifles (i think they were those, maybe some other gun) for two bucks a piece.

I am curious.

Britain. France. Russia.

I have used all three superpowers as an example in the past of governments that screwed up and felt the fire, in an essay that i wrote here on ATS.

Now, if the USA "did" (note the use of hypothetical) commit this actions on its citizens, is the time not NOW for armed rebellion? Is there a good, logical reason why the citizens of the USA should continue to slowly watch thier humanity be strippped away from them and their population turned into ignorant vegetables in the name of those that elect themsevles into power?

A human rights violation can take many, many forms. And while the USA does not commit the violent, obvious ones, it commits the more disturbing ones. It is high time, i say, that the corrupt and corporate run government be shown that the Population is believes to be mindless sheep is not so.

A controversial thought, but one with much credence in the face of current world events. If we protested over Vietnam, it is time to shoot them over Iran.

thanks everyone for writing

to actuallynothing:

You raise a valid concern in addressing this reality. Even if there was a cultural awakening against this unspeakable corruption, the consequence would undoubtedly be some type of instability.

That being acknowledged, I would like to propose that such instability would be preferable to the chaos resulting from a staged terrorist attack of catastrophic proportions. Also, I will remind you that by all indications (eroded civil liberties, power consolidation towards the executive branch, increased employment of mercenary forces unbound to any governing law, etc etc), this event would exist as an objective to a greater mission, a piece to the puzzle.

What we are talking about here is a facist America, a dictatorial dominion over the most powerful force in the world. The destructive potential would dwarf the strength of Nazi Germany in WWII. Earth was irreviserbly scarred by that time of vast genocide, international mobilization of armed force, war, death, and collapse of infrastructure. Now, place your thoughts on the toll of WWII and imagine this toll scaled to the magnitude of American influence and military might. The potential is staggering. If nuclear weapons are a factor, pack your bags now. Its over.

Now I know fully well that many of our international readers are balking at my last statements and expressing a very justified doubt in my assertions about US military power. After all, if we cant get our act together in the middle east, how would we orchestrate a conquest of the globe itself?

Well, it remains true that the American military spending accounts for 2/5ths of defense spending worldwide. And, this country is far ahead of most in terms of training, technology, and overall potential of force. Our nuclear stockpile is vast, and our capabilities in range/precision of delivery and missile self-defense claim no rival. Its certainly not something this citizen is proud of.

Regardless of speculation on a possible "2nd 9/11" the country is slowing locking step on war with Iran.

If war in Iran is achieved, international diplomacy will begin to disintegrate. Iran is not Iraq or Afghanistan, a rogue state as it is portrayed. It has very strong ties with many powerful countries, many of them already on the fence about US militarism.

Surrounded by global tension unlike the unilateral support post 9/11, and combined with an aggressive resurgence of patriotism at home, a chain reaction of diplomatic meltdownts would ensue and provide enviroment for large scale conflict. The draft would be inevitable.

Once millions of able Americans are conscripted, the hope of reversing a facist coup of the country is over. The population will fearfully accept the terms and a generation of them would be brainwashed in boot camp and exposed to the unthinkable stress and trauma of open combat. The executive branch will enforce orders 12919/12656 and wield the power of the enitre nation.

To learn more about historical attempts to consolidate the USA under facist rule, research the Business plot. This congressionally investigated scheme was orchestrated by leaders of wall street (Prescott Bush was one of the individuals implicated), and attemped to overthrow FDR by recruiting 500,000 veterans of WWI angry over lack of pay (see: great depression/bonus army). The would be organized under a decorated officer who would lead the army but act as a "figurehead" to policy decisions. The retired officer they approached alerted congress and gave testimony corroborated by other witnesses.

DamageMouse-

A fantastic find, another tally on the long list of questionable behaviors we've seen recently. Much like the "terrorists" there is a chatter that precedes these types of events. In retrospect, suspicious patterns appeared within our government before 9/11.

the title "terrorist" was defined to encompass criminal organizations and radical groups out sovereign control, whether receiving endoresment in any fashion from sympathetic governments. Now, the very word that was created to separate al-qaeda from national armies is getting spun a complete 180.

How do they get away with it?

Mark my words, If the United States begin a full-scale military conflict with Iran (or visa-versa) it will perhaps be the beginning of another world war.

And the clock, it would seem, has already started ticking.

If any of this were so....which I can't seem to find any rational reason why all this would go on without Anyone coming forward...Iran is a problem, true...so is China, they own America, Americans let that happen. Its not going to matter one bit if someone like yourself claims the Wars are to begin and we all end...if there is any truth to all this than so be it, no where to hide and no way to stop it, so it would seem. I have to say, its very unlikely Bush and a few choosen ones will take our world out as we know it. There are things that are not known and need not be known and for all those out there to worry themselves sick over "Whats Going On" next 911...and the next 911..We'll never get on with it now will we. Guns are missing...oil is unaccounted for, so whats new in all that? Nothing at all. I am sure we'll know soon enough if we are going to be at war ..again.

I don't think its unreasonable to want to know "whats going on" considering the mess we're in right now. We have destabilized an entire region and lost all credibility on the international stage.

A war with Iran will NOT, and I repeat NOT be tolerated by China, Russia, the French, and other formidable powers of the world. We would be entering ourselves into World War 3 as the agitator, much like Germany in WWII.

And I would give up my sincere distrust of the Bush Administration if it would stop tearing up the Constitution and end the constant drafting of executive orders that in essence are a thinly veiled dictorial power grab.

A strict interpretation of the Constitution provides no basis or support for the Executive Order, a once rarely used directive abused in excess by the current administration.

Good thread. My question is the same as Highfreq's. "What do we REALLY do about it?" (Or better yet how can we prevent it!)

Whatever may happen in September (or whenever) it will be either:

a) actual terrorism strategically planned to cripple our gov't/society
or
b) gov't orchestrated to achieve consolidated power.

Either way the result is our goverment does not serve US. We need to initiate change in our government. What are we prepared to do? Do we need to change our society as well? We voted for this mess and we tolerate it. When will we have had enough?

I personally will never vote for another career politician and I will no longer be silenced by mainstream thinkers and media. Clearly we need new and imaginative approaches to today's problems. We should not limit our ideas and opinions to the threads of like minded citizens at ATS - speak out publicly in your own communities, get people talking. If you want to change your life, you have to change your mind and/or other people's minds too!

Reading this thread prompted me to finally register, so good work

Just wanted to ring in on a mostly astute thread about something that has been on my mind as well recently. Surely another world war is in the making here, cooked up by the same old power base and international bankers that start every major conflict in the world. The writing is on the wall, but any armed revolution against the government in the States would be squashed so hard it would be painful to watch happen.

There was a time in the states when the people had the power and the tools to overthrow this power base, and that was in the 1960s. Unfortunately the same group of people who are in charge of America now put a stop to that by assassinating anyone who stood in between the people and the propaganda machine. They learned then, with a few simple parlor tricks, that it's possible to slip anything past the American public.

It seems to me, at this point, that the only path the neo-con cabal that hijacked our government can realistically pursue is to enlarge the middle eastern conflict so that the global military industry can be further scaled up and become even more profitable, and involve more allied countries. It's either that, or engineering another massive depression/recession bust, so that another boom cycle can start up again (that will probably happen regardless).

My bet's on full on world war, because these guys are starting to get the idea that their time in charge might be coming to a close, and their timetables need to be moved up to bring the NWO into full fruition to solidify the power base. In the U.S. they have control of the monetary supply, the military, the intelligence community, the White House, the vote, the oil industry, a majority of the congress and many private military armies and contractors. The politicians are bought and paid for by international corporations, groups of people that collectively have no soul and operate as a psychopath, and those psychopaths are bought and paid for by the international bankers. It's over, they've taken America over, and taken it apart from the inside out, a soft coup orchestrated covertly over 100 years.

Sept. 11th is the most viable day, from the perspective of shifting blame to "the terrorists" again. But another side of me thinks, do these guys even need another attack to take place? For what purpose? They hold all the cards at this point, and they can pre-emptively attack Iran for any reason they want. Just labelling one of their military units "terrorists" means we have the green light to invade, under W's current policies.

The only reason to stage terrorists attacks would be to garner more international sentiment (one reason the Trade Center was the target in 2001) for an invasion of Iran. This would seem to suggest a staged incident where terrorists of Iranian origin are caught red handed in Europe with a nuclear device of some kind. Just framing up a terrorist group supported by Iran caught with a nuke on British, or an allied countries soil would be enough to warrant invasion and use of nukes, would it not?

Sorry for the long first post and hello to the ATS community.

[edit on 15-8-2007 by Torturer]

Torturer, thats a great way to start and welcome. Props to chaeone on a great thread as well.

The approaching storm is of great concern. International relations between superpowers have taken on a more bipolar posture. Tensions with Russia have heated up significantly with the issues in UK, and American weapons placed near Russia. Putin shows no signs of backing down to American aggression. Meanwhile China is increasingly facing a fraying of relations with the US, especially in economic areas. Just yesterday the US announced a recall of millions of Chinese toys.

Look at who supplies weapons for the middle east. Iran, Syria, and many terrorist organizations are supplied by Russia. On the other side US weapons supply Israel and now many of the Arab states as the OP mentioned.

Iran has been exercising major war games. Russia and China recently held a joint, large scale SCO war game. America has been doing the same in Australia and the Gulf.

Sure, they talk like everything is fine, but what kinds of geo-political moves are the big players making? If you have been paying attention to the news and the goings on at ATS, then you know there are many many things supporting the OP's thesis of impending troubles.

Originally posted by Torturer
This would seem to suggest a staged incident where terrorists of Iranian origin are caught red handed in Europe with a nuclear device of some kind. Just framing up a terrorist group supported by Iran caught with a nuke on British, or an allied countries soil would be enough to warrant invasion and use of nukes, would it not?

Great first post. Welcome aboard.
The use of nukes over there doesn't make any sense to me. If we nuke any area in the middle east, the fallout will render most of it (if not all of it) uninhabitable. How are we going to comandeer oil fields if the whole region is radioactive? Are we going to drill for oil in radiation suits? Nuking any area in the region would cut off their nose to spite their face. They want to invade, most certainly. But nuke them? No way. It doesn't serve their agenda. And if the NWO regime is run by zionist factions, they certainly don't want to leave Israel in ruins.

[edit on 8/15/2007 by pjslug]

Torturer, your anology comparing international corporations to psychopaths is hilarious and 100% accurate. But I just will not buy into the idea that the U.S. has already been ceded. Angry Danish is correct in his opinion that people of all perspectives are waking up to smell the stink, I am one of them - a reformed sheeple.

Is there a thread on ATS regarding REAL and CONSTRUCTIVE action any citizen can take to initiate change? Do we need to start one? Regardless, I love this thread!

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Is there a thread on ATS regarding REAL and CONSTRUCTIVE action any citizen can take to initiate change? Do we need to start one? Regardless, I love this thread!

IMHO, it's too late to start a grass roots kinda thing now (if we want to get an organized, coherent message out that has some clout). I was thinking of possibly petitioning the ATS people to try issuing a press release for the community (if enough people from the community signed on to it). Heck, why wouldn't they - it'd get them so much attention the boards would probably explode with hits.

[edit on 15-8-2007 by Angry Danish]

Originally posted by pjslug
Bush's plan all along was to go after Iran. What I don't understand is why he didn't just do that from the beginning?[edit on 8/15/2007 by pjslug]

I think the Gov. needed to give our troops combat experience, ie Afghanistan and Iraq before we launched a full scale invasion of Iran. I also think the Gov. was trying to provoke Iran by putting a large occupying force in the countries surrounding Iran. This seems to have been working in Iraq. This may cause some to support the US or at least not support Iran when the shebang starts.

At the very least it is an idea, a plan of action. We can refine or expand on it with the help of the mods or experienced ATS members. I, for one, would be very interested in seeing just how many ATS members/users would be willing to take constructive action or how many would just prefer to talk about how bad everything is.