But the problem is, what can we do? Surely, we can talk about it in our communities, try to spread the word as much as possible. But how can we change the minds of people that have been programmed to think otherwise their whole life, with a little talk? It just seems impossible. And whatever we do that becomes big enough, the government will find a way to make us look like lunatics, terrorists, or who knows, it's worked in the past, and it will work again.

And as things as right now, an armed revolution will not work, we are not enough people, and we are spread all over the place. And whatever we did by armed force, they would throw us in jail and the sheep herd would tag us as 'terrorists' to their beautiful country.

It's amazing how well this was all planned by the government.

Maybe the solution lies in using the same tactics and manipulation as the government's to get people to agree with us. It's wrong, but we are making them agree with the truth, and it might be the only way.

If we fail, then I hope in 2012 the world as we know it ends, because it will be the only way to make things change beyond that point.

Chaeone86 i largely agree with your point of view.

But i think we dont have all the pieces of the puzzle to see the big picture here.
There are alot of plausible arguments for the 9-11 trigger:

-Getting foot in the middle-east and its controlling ME oil supplies
Controlling energy will be control over alot of countries
especially China which could potentially criple US economy.
Keeping the status quo will keep americas hegemony

-Absolute control of the american population and governing apparatus

Know this puzzles me, why be this drastic, Do they know someting we dont know?? I think there will in the distant future be some kind of major event.be it economic collapse, major natural disaster or free energy or something even more bizar (ET presence, dont rule this out perse, there is something strange going on in the world lately )

The US goverment isnt even slightly worried about the deficit and is spending like crazy on militairy projects.why???

There must be something coming that we dont know about, im sure of that, something so drastic that 9-11 had to be done.
The PNAC document is so honest, that i suspect its to keep of off track to see the bigger picture, i even think there are several different conspiracies that are actually closely related.
Dont have evidence for this but pretty sure of it.

To the OP, good post and great command of the english language
The usual annoying types showed up for awhile in the beginning but ran off when the intellectual discussions started. Nevermind them.

Hope this thread stays active.

I think one of the best things one can do is to actually memorize the facts we know and have retorts to the things people have been led to believe, if it ever comes up in conversation.

It has been asked what we can do. Sadly, I think it is too late, but what we could do is to construct a new Constitution.

In this new document, we could reiterate the Bill of Rights, clarifying them (for instance, making it clear that this country is NOT a "Christian" one, or a "Jewish" one, a "Buddhist" one or whatever...), and circulate this document for signatures.

I have been contemplating this for a while now, and would love to join with others to create such a document that defines the powers of the branches to much greater extent than what we have now.

Failing a definition of expectations, "they" will take control and we will be the carpet they drive their vehicles upon.

Any takers?

I think on this moment its only 90 degrees, the 180 has still to come.
Here China, Venezuela comes to mind...you know the guys that sponsor terrorist groups..lol

Originally posted by kosmicjack

I personally will never vote for another career politician and I will no longer be silenced by mainstream thinkers and media. Clearly we need new and imaginative approaches to today's problems. We should not limit our ideas and opinions to the threads of like minded citizens at ATS - speak out publicly in your own communities, get people talking. If you want to change your life, you have to change your mind and/or other people's minds too!

Don't you find it odd that politicians are voted in year after year and you can rarely, if ever, find a person who voted for them?

I'm with you I now vote only for those whose platforms are truly of the people.

I personally don't believe our constitution needs much, if any changing. It just seems that the intent of it has been subjugated and twisted from its original purpose - to protect our basic freedoms and human rights.

Now our society is so rattled by fear-mongering that most people are willing to give up their freedoms bit by bit - not so much at once that it would cause alarm - but the result is the same. Its a slow drip.

I'm all for brainstorming ideas - count me in. However, as a noob, I defer to the more experienced ATS members as to how to get started and to the more intellectual ones for the approach we might take in drafting a plan or tweaking the constitution.

If your seeking a way to prevent said event, I do not know if we have the resources or influence. However a few things come to mind as to how to make it through.

One. Get up to date on stockpiles of food, water, med supply, etc. Share the knowledge with your neighboors. The farther off the grid we are, the better our chance of not being roped in.

Two. Start talking to every veteran and active military personel and police officer you know. We need to ensure that the people holding the triggers to Govt issued firepower is on our side. Even if there is a Global Cabal intent on destroying our way of life, they can't carry it through without the millions of cops and soldiers who grew up in the same towns and cities as ourselves. We must reach out to these people and strenghen our bonds.

Three. If you have any kind of belief system which helps to neutralize fear, practice it daily. Not being afraid will strengthen our resolve to see the job through to the end. I don't care if it is Jesus, Buddha, the White Witch of the East, the Theory of Relativity, or tea leaves, just do it!

Four. I have had the thought for a while that much of our information and recent history is stored on fragile mediums, such as silicone chips and paper. Perhaps we could take the most important parts of our information database and engraving it on long lasting material, such as metal plates or stone, then store these in mountains, caves, or other places where they won't be destroyed. I know it seems old-fashion but in the event of widespread catastrophe, how do we plan to preserve our knowledge for hundreds of years? Thousands? We must not let our scientific achievments, or the facts of our modern history be forgotten, or worse yet, rewritten in a false light.

Thats all I have for now, but I concur this is a much needed thread, and will devote much time and attention to it. Thanks.

Thanks to everyone for such productive contributions

A lot of us have pointed to a shifting political climate, one that allows those of us with suspicion and speculation to make our thoughts known without complete marginalization. I agree-- The past two years have been a time of social/political evolution, mostly in part to technological improvements and innovations.

Advances in software have granted researchers the tools to affordably dissect evidence without the burden or bias of appeasing a financial backer. Furthermore, if it weren't for YouTube/Google video, hardly any of us would've heard of Loose Change or similar projects. Ultimately, without massive and uncensored distribution channels, the claims we've made and research accomplished would've never see the light of day.

These resources have been the greatest ally of the truth, and their distribution of our skepticism has surely effected the population.

In approaching family/friends/co-workers with these concepts, I have found an increased level of interest, apprehension and acceptance of the possibility that members of our government have been dishonest about the nature of the "global war on terror." That is why now is a critical moment to begin spreading the word far, wide and without reservation.

This mission has gained even greater immediacy as those of us investigating 9/11 are beginning to see the same elements preceding the attacks materialize today. And, whether its a 2nd 9/11 or a war with Iran, the conditions we are enjoying today will surely evaporate. Renewed conflict will invigorate the pro-war base and ensure 6 more years of subversive propaganda and even greater dismissal of our assertions.

So, What Now?

I know that there is much corruption in our government, but I do not believe it is an entirely hopeless situation. There are still honest and decent Democrats and republicans, who have remained silent for fear of the retaliation of their colleagues and constituents. As their constituents, we have the duty to educate them of our concerns.

What each of us must do is draft letters laying it all out. If we write with prudence, moderate tone, and support your theory with factual evidence, our leaders will begin to listen.

It doesn't matter if you're a 9/11 truther or are just anti-war. There is ample evidence to begin a formal investigation of our executive branch, be it of treason, war crimes, perjury... the list is staggering. Its more important to put the brakes on this administration now, and in my mind its unimportant what issue pulls the lever. Once there are police seizing files and data in the white house, then we can start the debate about just how guilty these people are.

In the meantime, pick a topic and start writing. This thread is loaded with plenty of links and references to resources detailing questionable administration behavior.

In terms of who to write to, start with the congressmen in your voting district. You are their constituent, and they are more liable to read and consider your thoughts. After them, I would suggest contacting junior representatives and senators, especially those newly elected in 2006. These politicians are the freshest, the least jaded by the beltway.

We must also begin to contact other people within the movement. Figures like Paul Craig Roberts, the deputy sec. of the treasury under Reagan. Yes folks, the founder Reagonomics is on our side. We should also reach out to like-minded websites and their associate groups. Scholars for truth, 9/11 truth.org etc etc. Once a coalition of groups is formed, it becomes our responsibility to inject our belief into the media from the bottom up.

Blogs are a good place to start. The Huffington Post, Daily Kos etc. Start posting replies to their stories, try to align their argument with ours. There are many complaining about the Bush white house, only at a rather cosmetic level. We need to show that its just the tip of the ice berg.

[edit on 15-8-2007 by chaeone86]

I have to throw in my 2 cents here. If we want to make change, the important aspect is information. Not just theory, or conjecture, but a series of facts that can align to change viewpoints or cause people to question the actions of our government. I do not want to overthrow our system, I want to make sure that people are aware of the dangers of the current regime.

My proposal is to create a document. This document will contain factual evidence with citations provided. It will show the history of factual events as to disclose the clandestine style of our government (to our people). If you bring up Pearl Harbor, show pictures of the planes being parked with propellers inward. See what I mean?

Sheeple don't want to hear conjecture or hysterical fear-mongering. The key is to make them doubt that their government runs on the people's ideas. They need to have a sense of truth-seeking awareness in them. This is only created through factual evidence.

Let's get a committee together to create a thread of all FACTUAL evidence of the globalist elite and US governmental control that has removed our freedoms and then create a specific web page that can be linked to your friends and family for investigation.

I repeat: FACTUAL evidence with backup to all cited works and quotes. If you can't find it, don't post it.

How does that sound for a peaceful movement. We are not trying to overthrow a dictatorship yet. We are trying to inform our fellow Americans of the issues with our leadership and their actions.

Give me a gold star, and let's get this moving. I've been waiting a long time for this.

Thanks for opening the door on this one Chaeone86. Like yourself and 12SeVen34 (great post too!), I am determined that the way to open more eyes is through logical, unemotional, EVIDENCE, a flow chart if you will!

I am not saying we can't be passionate in our work and purpose in order to discredit the current policies and practices of our government. But, if we inflame and color the issues with conjecture or hyperbole, people will just dismiss us as crackpots.

We must be professional, consise and sophisticated in our presentation. We need to use their own tactics against them. The "powers-that-be" have made the sheeple what they are - easily convinced and controlled by marketing. We need to use that to our advantage. "USE OUR POWERS FOR GOOD NOT EVIL!" LOL

But as for "getting off the grid", it just seems to be the LAST resort - a desperate measure of survival. I am interested in taking a stand. In drawing a line and saying "No more". Being aware and prepared are essential. Safe-gaurding my family a must. But running and hiding without so much as throwing a rock is not my thing.

This country was founded on courage and rebellion. There are MANY people in this country, even now, who will stand up with us if they could but be educated, organized and led.

We need to recruit the best informed and most persuasive minds on ATS to get in on this. Then we need to expand our voice beyond ATS.

These posts remind me of why it sucks to live near DC. It is a sure target here.
*sigh* Should of stayed in Phoenix....

I am certainly not suggesting violence. Seizing power never results in permanent control (read change) and then we would be just as complicit as the powers that be. Most permanent change is a result of neccessity or persuasion, not brute force.

I also think it is clear that no one is trying to stage a coup or overthrow the gov't - just trying to formulate a cohesive plan to change people's perspective in order that they may be empowered to change their own behavior. This, in turn, will work toward the big picture of turning our society and its flawed gov't in a different, more positive and productive direction.

I have to agree with a previous post that focusing strictly on 9/11 is largely pointless. Most people believe either one thing or another - hardly anyone is in the middle anymore. You can't argue against someone's passion, you have to appeal to their logic. Sadly, 9/11 is just one more cog in the wheel of corruption.

We have to present the ENTIRE picture in order to persude the most people that change is necessary. So what other topics should be laid out?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
It has been asked what we can do. Sadly, I think it is too late, but what we could do is to construct a new Constitution.

In this new document, we could reiterate the Bill of Rights, clarifying them (for instance, making it clear that this country is NOT a "Christian" one, or a "Jewish" one, a "Buddhist" one or whatever...), and circulate this document for signatures.

I have been contemplating this for a while now, and would love to join with others to create such a document that defines the powers of the branches to much greater extent than what we have now.

Failing a definition of expectations, "they" will take control and we will be the carpet they drive their vehicles upon.

Any takers?

There is nothing wrong with our constitution and its ammendments. It has worked fine until executive orders were allowed to be written.

Newt Gingrich made a good point during a speech he gave at the National Press Club. He said when Lincoln and Douglas were having their presidential debates in 1859, they agreed upon the terms themselves. There were no time limits, no restrictions on what you could say or do -- they took as long as they needed to to answer questions. Today the debates are totally media controlled and would you believe there is a guidebook with 50,000 rules (or was it 50,000 pages) that outlines the procedure for presidential debates? It's absurd.

There is nothing wrong with the way our constitution is written. It's the abuse of power at the upper echelons of this country that need to be stopped. Read the quote in my signature by Lincoln.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I personally don't believe our constitution needs much, if any changing. It just seems that the intent of it has been subjugated and twisted from its original purpose - to protect our basic freedoms and human rights.

Now our society is so rattled by fear-mongering that most people are willing to give up their freedoms bit by bit - not so much at once that it would cause alarm - but the result is the same. Its a slow drip.

I'm all for brainstorming ideas - count me in. However, as a noob, I defer to the more experienced ATS members as to how to get started and to the more intellectual ones for the approach we might take in drafting a plan or tweaking the constitution.

The reason I suggest a new document is because what we have needs clarification, strengthening (so that any changes, for example, MUST have 3/4 approval of those who choose to vote - or all votes MUST have the ability to be recounted - or any voting machines MUST have transparent code...just to name a few), and other protection from "twisting."

I don't see why you couldn't participate. All suggestions would be considered and debated.

you know it makes me laugh , you guys can get rid of one of the most intelligent presidents you have had in recent times for getting sexual favors under a table ...

yet you cant get rid of bush and his cronies for a never ending and growing list of terrible decisions at best and calculated evil at worst.



[edit on 15-8-2007 by intrepid]

Originally posted by AmethystSD
I have empathy for people who want to take back their government in any way they can, but we need to face facts that we don't have the whole picture and we're not qualified to carry out a coup.

That depends on the kind of coup, I think. [smile] I think I am qualified to help with writing an updated version of what has been allowed to be raped and then gutted... And others here are also so qualified, I think. If enough people get in back of such a document, declaring that its rules and delineations are the ones they will go by, a coup will have effectively taken place.