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Beyond the Stereotype - a look at the system

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posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:56 PM
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A couple of visits to a hospital gift shop gave me some killer insight on race issues in America.

My girl and I went into the shop and browsed around for a while. When we got to the counter with our stuff, I payed for it with plastic. The white woman at the register goes "let me see your ID, please."

Immediately, I thought about a class I took about race in America. One of the things we talked about was how black people are more likely to be asked for ID when using plastic. Not only did we have textbook examples, but people in my class also related to this.

I didn't say anything, but I showed her my ID, got the stuff, and left. Once we were outside, I told my girl "you see how she asked for my ID? I bet she wouldn't have done that if I were white." At first, she didn't think much of it, but she then said "I know, like you stole it from a doctor or something."

We went back to the same shop about 30 minutes later. This time, a different woman rang us up. I gave her my card, and she never asked for my ID. After paying for the stuff, my girl looked at me like "hmm, imagine that." On the way out, she goes "you see SHE didn't ask you for ID. I wonder why." Oh yeah, this woman was black, in case you're late.

At this point, my realization hit me. It wasn't that racism is still alive; that's a big no-brainer there. What I'm talking about is the system in America.

Think about it. If you're black, you probably stole a credit card, or that nice car, or those nice clothes, or whatever. Of course, black thief is a popular stereotype, but think deeper about this. Deeper.

What does that say about your system if black people can only have nice things if they steal them? It says that your system is set up to keep black people from coming up. Real talk.

If you see a black person driving a Jaguar, you pull the guy over because he probably stole the car. If you see a black person paying for something with plastic, ID them because they probably stole the card. If you see a black person dressed in expensive clothes, frisk them because they probably have drugs on them.

Don't you see? This mentality clearly shows that this system was set up so that we would be prevented from attaining wealth as much as possible. The thought that the black man in the Infiniti is a hard-working citizen NEVER enters your mind, outside of some kind of joke. It really shows a lot about this system.

Hell, look at the young America. Black people were by far poor as hell, even free blacks. And if black people somehow managed to come up, whites could kill them and destroy their wealth legally. Check out Black Wall Street or Rosewood sometime. This mentality clearly has gone nowhere.

But you'll say that it's us black people who are always making distinctions about race. Sure. Who is it that always asks for your race in sections of paperwork, for hospitals, surveys, schools, government-related agencies, etc. The system.




posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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Hey, truthseeka, how's it going?

So, a white woman asked for your ID and a black woman didn't. And following this logic, if the patron had been white, the white woman wouldn't have asked for his ID and the black woman would have.

What does this have to do with the system?

If anything, this was a case of personal racism. And I'm not even convinced of that. I was in the store yesterday and the guy ahead of me paid with plastic. She asked for his ID. They were both white. It's a common thing to ask for ID when someone is paying with plastic or even a check.


Originally posted by truthseeka
Think about it. If you're black, you probably stole a credit card, or that nice car, or those nice clothes, or whatever.


Sorry. I don't buy that.



If you see a black person driving a Jaguar, you pull the guy over because he probably stole the car. If you see a black person paying for something with plastic, ID them because they probably stole the card. If you see a black person dressed in expensive clothes, frisk them because they probably have drugs on them.


I'm sorry, I think you're living in the 60s. I see all kinds of successful black people today. It's just not an issue anymore. Unless of course, you're looking for it around every corner.




The thought that the black man in the Infiniti is a hard-working citizen NEVER enters your mind, outside of some kind of joke.


This is a fantasy. Again. The truth is that it would never enter my mind that he stole the car.



And if black people somehow managed to come up, whites could kill them and destroy their wealth legally. Check out Black Wall Street ...


OK, maybe not the 60s. More like the 20s.



But you'll say that it's us black people who are always making distinctions about race.


I don't say that it's you black people. I say it's you, truthseeka who is always making the distinctions about your race.



Who is it that always asks for your race in sections of paperwork, for hospitals, surveys, schools, government-related agencies, etc.


They ask for EVERYONE's race! They don't discriminate. And you have the option of not answering that question.

I do agree with you, the system needs some work. It sucks, in fact. But I don't think your example at the gift shop is an indication of that. Like I said, most likely, it was the white woman AND the black woman exercising racial prejudice.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
They ask for EVERYONE's race! They don't discriminate. And you have the option of not answering that question.


Missing the point.

If race is "supposedly" not such a big deal in this country now, why do things like this? So you can identify the "others" and discriminate against them, that's why.

That's why studies have shown that EOE employers discriminate against just as much as non-EOE employers. Seems like asking for race makes it easier for the former to do so.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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I'm white and I get asked for my ID most of the time when I use my debit card as a credit card, i.e., when I sign rather than use a PIN.

Such a practice protects me as well as the merchant.

I don't see why that's a problem for anyone, regardless of race.

There are times when I don't get asked for the ID, but I know who I am and in such cases it's the merchant who's taking the risk.

I don't know exactly why certain people find it beneath them to comply with normal procedures that are intended to reduce crime and make life a little easier for all of us.

How hard is it to keep the ID handy?

I keep this card behind my debit card in my wallet.

When I get carded, I give the cashier this one while I dig out my Driver's License, which I keep behind my Sam's Club card, which I have to produce far more often than my DL.



Do you belong to Sam's Club?

If you do, that must really get on your nerves having to produce as much documentation as members do there.

Did it ever occur to you, truthseeka, to just lighten up a bit and enjoy life a little, instead of walking around with your mental calculator buzzing, keeping a tally of all the annoyances of modern living and blaming it all on racism?

Could it be that that is in itself being racist?


[edit on 2007/8/10 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
Missing the point.


I don't believe I am. Asking for someone's gender, hair color or marital status could be seen in the same way if they were looking for something! Why do they need to know I'm a woman? It's the system trying to keep me down!



If race is "supposedly" not such a big deal in this country now, why do things like this? So you can identify the "others" and discriminate against them, that's why.


I understand that's what you think, but coming from the group that's supposedly so eager to identify you and discriminate against you... Man... it just doesn't matter. Your color means nothing to me. Yeah, there are racists still living and I probably have about as much patience with them as you do, but they're not lurking around every corner trying to ID you and treat you wrong.

But I understand that we disagree on that.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't know exactly why certain people find it beneath them to comply with normal procedures that are intended to reduce crime and make life a little easier for all of us.

Ha, sure.

Guess that's why the same white woman who carded me didn't card white shoppers. Oh yeah, I went back. Waited around like I was shopping, but really was peeping the scene. See, there were 3 white shoppers in line, and guess what?

The clerk asked not ONE of them for ID, even though they payed with plastic.

And, just to taste the icing on the cake, I went ahead and bought something, with my plastic. Of course, I wasn't let down; "let me see your ID."

But yeah, I'm just one of those "others" who can't comply with "standard" procedures.





Did it ever occur to you, truthseeka, to just lighten up a bit and enjoy life a little, instead of walking around with your mental calculator buzzing, keeping a tally of all the annoyances of modern living and blaming it all on racism?


I have a great life. I just get tired of members of a certain demographic showing their true color, then having other members of said demographic call me paranoid and a life-hater.

To finish off, you've demonstrated a couple of what my friend the Unapologetic Mexican likes to call Wite-Magik Attax.

Wite-Magik Attax

• the FALLACIOUS FLIP ("You're racist against whites!" etc)


Could it be that that is in itself being racist?


• the OVERSENSITIVE ("You're hearing insults that aren't there.")


I don't see why that's a problem for anyone, regardless of race.



[edit on 11-8-2007 by truthseeka]

[edit on 11-8-2007 by truthseeka]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
I just get tired of members of a certain demographic showing their true color, then having other members of said demographic call me paranoid and a life-hater.


Yeah, man. I hear ya...

It's all about the "demographics"


Actually, I don't doubt your experience at all. I know we see what we're looking for and that includes me... I just wonder -- what's to be done about it? Got any ideas? What do you hope to happen by posting about it here? I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I wonder what we (ATS members) can do about it...



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If anything, this was a case of personal racism. And I'm not even convinced of that. I was in the store yesterday and the guy ahead of me paid with plastic. She asked for his ID. They were both white. It's a common thing to ask for ID when someone is paying with plastic or even a check.

BH

Sometimes the cashier has no option but to ask for ID. It is a function of the card processing software. You could quite possibly be served by the same cashier twice within an hour, and be asked for ID in the second case and not the first.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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I get followed around stores by store detectives quite often.

I have no criminal record and i dont steal.

The only reasons that i can think of as to why im being followed is that i look like someone on their watch list or maybe that i look paranoid.

I really dont know.It could also be to do with age and the times of year (holidays ).

I normally call them stalkers because i dont seem to get followed when i am with my partner.

Personally speaking it puts me off going into large shopping centres as they (store security) do make you feel guilty when you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Feeling like im being scrutinised.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 10:14 PM
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With all the debit and credit card fraud that happens in this day and age the cashier should be asking to see eveyones ID. I always have mine ready to show, I will get asked for it depending on how I am dressed usually if I am in work clothes or a suit and tie I dont get asked for ID if I am in jeans and a shirt or slumming a bit they always ask. I have seen the event truthseeka describes and it happens alot more than we would like to admit. I would term it predjudice as oppossed to racism. I would call it racism if it was policy to only ask for the ID when the card user was a peson of color.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You could quite possibly be served by the same cashier twice within an hour, and be asked for ID in the second case and not the first.


Yeah, I know. That's why I said I wasn't convinced.

And I should have used the term personal prejudice instead of personal racism. DarkStormCrow is right about that.





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