WOW!! Qigong magic..jeEEez, if this is real..Whew!!Must Watch Very Interesting!!

I know about the gracies, great family, great art, really fantastic, but again, your quantifieing one persons acheivements against anothers. I could then argue, based on what you said , that the gracies all achieved this because of their physical ability, not their mastery of chi. You are arguing oppinion, which is fine. But I have one already. Plus you pit the achievements of a whole family against one person. He did in 19 years what most would take a life time to do ....so what. Albert einstein did in a life time what the world couldnt do....ever, what is your point?

Originally posted by newyorkee
I know about the gracies, great family, great art, really fantastic, but again, your quantifieing one persons acheivements against anothers. Plus you pit the achievements of a whole family against one person. He did in 19 years what most would take a life time to do ....so what. Albert einstein did in a life time what the world couldnt do....ever, what is your point?

i am comparing the achievements cause you toss out this 'create they're own style that is practiced all over the world' junk and i was pointing out that it has been done. that particular example was created in 1925..THAT is the point i was trying to get across.

also, i am not pitting the achievements of the entire family against just him..maybe you should reread my posts. i am pitting his acheivements against any ONE of maybe 5-6 gracies OR any ONE of a key 100 students...

he did NOT do in 19 years what it takes a lifetime to do..
did he have mastery of this 'chi'
was he a grandmaster of some traditional style?
no, he was not.

he was a famous movie star. a semi famous tv star and a famous martial arts instructor.
was a famous martial artist i would agree, BUT these days, famous martial artists put their martial arts on the line, in the ring. there are numerous places in the states, brazil, japan, etc to train and test your martial arts ability.

i can not concede that bruce was a great martial artist cause i have never seen him use his martial arts in a fight. only against heavy bags and things like that....

if you know all about the gracies then why do you tout the fact that bruce created a style that is in LIMITED practice today as like the it is/was teh be all and end all.
he was not the first to do it. he was not the last to do it and his style is not the most effective.

now, all that aside, can you give me some links where i can read about all of bruces fantastic chi cause untill then, i will call it great physical fitness and cardio.

thanks

we can probably chop his timetable a bit more too.

he started parcticing wing chun with yip man at 13 and went to seattle when he was 19 right?

do you think bruce practiced harnessing this chi at this age with yip, or later?

so he lands in seattle at 19 and dies at 32 right? so in 13 years, he developed his own style AND learned how to harness this chi...when/where was this done?
remember, he was making films, making tv shows, going to ed parkers kenpo tourny(hahaha)...that would mean he was traveling, staying in hotels, etc...
he was married and had 2 kids. he had a martial arts school and students to attend too.

so, when did he aquire this?

are you saying he had it cause bruce said he had it?
what exactly is leading you to say he has this chi power and not just a person in great physical condition?
very curious about this

Originally posted by Boondock78
well, who else around bruce lee's time have you 'studied'?

I don't necessarily agree with all that you quoted from wherever. A lot of what you stated sounds like total nonsense, but I guess that was your point. I suggest doing better research. Dig deeper.

Who else was around at the time of Bruce Lee who could confirm his superb ability as a martial artist?

Look into the testimonies of internationally recognized martial artists at that time, which was the 1960s and early 1970s. Look for people who knew him and trained with him at different periods and who were well-known as champions in their own right.

People like Mike Stone (who is soon to have a documentary come out), Joe Lewis (not the well-known boxer but the international karate champion), and Chuck Norris to name a few.

Joe Lewis of Joe Lewis Karate Systems has a must-see DVD for those who are interested in Bruce Lee and his eclectic martial art; the video is called Practical Jeet Kune Do.

There are also clips of Danny Inosanto explaining various facets of JKD and these are available for free online.



[edit on 8-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Dude I dont care anymore, you just have it in for THE MAN, I dont really want to show anything about bruce lee because you can do a little more research than just a couple of warm up vids, and a little book about tao. this is about chi, not mma or THE MAN. If you r that hard core about mma on a whole or the entire graqcie lineage VS bruce lee then start a separate thread. If not talk to us about chi....this is nothing but NO THIS IS BETTER, NO, GRACIES ARE, but I will say this, rather immaturely.

BRUCE LEE ROCKS WHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

HIS CHI IS GODLY!!!!!!!!!!!

ok..we can take this back the chi route but i need to lol at joe lewis and chuck norris too.

chuck norris is another one that gets way too many propers....karate champ.....meh


it's cool. for me, martial arts=fighting.
maybe for you it means something else and that is where the difference comes in..
we cna agree to disagree on this..

back to the chi....all i am asking is how/when do you suppose bruce learned how to manipulate this chi, given his 'short' career and busy schedule.

please and thank you?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Who else was around at the time of Bruce Lee who could confirm his superb ability as a martial artist?

that was no the issue...the issue was he said that bruce accomplished more than ANY mma practioner.
he is clearly a bruce fanboy so i wanted to know who else he looked into as far as their own achievments....not others that will swear to bruce lee's god like status....

this is great btw

Dude, stop with THE MAN. chi...remember , lets find another example, or topic related to chi.ok. How about this

www.taichicanada.com...


says here that evry traditional cultre has had similar forms of excercize to achieve the results wanted of qigong. I say that this is an aspect of human culture and not something to be attributed to the far east.

Originally posted by newyorkee
Dude, stop with THE MAN. chi...remember , lets find another example, or topic related to chi.ok. How about this

i'm trying to talk about chi.....we can talk of all these other people that have shi or have seen people use it....so, why can i not ask about bruce now?
forget the fighting end of it all, forget mma, forget the gracies.

people are making the claims about bruce and his chi. so, i am questioning it.

other than bruce as a course or chuck norris saying "yeah, he was powerful", what leads you(any of you) to the conclusion that he had this power to manipulate this chi?

it is a legit question.

these guys in the video live in the friggon jungle(not literally)...they live a different lifestyle.....bruce was in hollywood man...he had a schedule.
i simply want to know, how bruce acheived this chi.

i ask cause i think some are simply mistaking physical power/prowess for this 'chi'.

is that not fair enough or what?
talkin brice. talkin chi.
you and others claims he had 'it' and could manipulate it...

WHAT makes you say this is what i am asking you?
talking about the chi, not the fighting...

i would very much like an answer...
-------------

now, reiki, i believe in it but to a degree. my wife is a physical therapist and i have a disabling condition(why i don't train/roll anymore) and she has had reiki done on her and seems to claim it works. i trust my wife more than anyone else so i can very well say she is lying.
i don't doubt there is energy, chakras, etc...things like that.
what i do doubt is people could light paper on fire with their energy.


also, i would like to point out about the videos.....if you watch them again, the narrators have said more than once that the dude performing this has made it very clear that this is NOT electricity....it is chi...
that is why the volt meters and all that wouldn't work.

well, if it is not electricity, why do these people need to be 'grounded'?
that might be nothing at all, i really don't know......
just struck a chord.

what also got me is when they ran the metal detector over him, he had his white t shirt on and they showed it for like 2 seconds....

if he is not shy to get into a banana hammock for them to try and use the voltmeter, why does he have a shirt on when they use the wand?
it sure would be a LOT more believavle, at least for me if he was in as little clothing as possible when they used the wand on him.
the way he holds the led.

he could not do the chopstick from the top but he could from the bottom.

i don't even doubt that this guy can control some of this chi....i will not believe he can do those things though till i see it with my own eyes....
also, in teh 2nd video, were they at the dudes house? cause if they were, he had a NICE spread man...looks like he is doing very well for himself...

i thikn if the human body could harness the type of power that this guy claims, science would have been all over it long ago for one and for two, thinking logicaly here.

there is a man in india that can light crap on fire with his hands...i would think some gov agency would long have scooped his ass up for dna samples and all kinds of stuff.

a lot of it just don't add up for me.....

Originally posted by Boondock78
other than bruce as a course or chuck norris saying "yeah, he was powerful", what leads you(any of you) to the conclusion that he had this power to manipulate this chi?

There is a lot more to it than your assumption about Chuck Norris' opinion that Lee was powerful.

But to answer your question directly...

By Lee's ability to train more intensely than anyone else and by the speed and power of his techniques. No one has ever been able to duplicate that, then or since. Many have tried. Many are still trying. Jet Li and Jackie Chan are top notch to be sure, as are many other martial artists, but none of them are as fast or as powerful in the overall sense as Lee was.

By Lee's ability to train more intensely than anyone else and by the speed and power of his techniques. No one has ever been able to duplicate that, then or since. Many have tried. Many are still trying. Jet Li and Jackie Chan are top notch to be sure, as are many other martial artists, but none of them are as fast or as powerful in the overall sense as Lee was.

what i am asking is how do you know that nobody has been able to dupliate it?
you then go to mention jackie chan and jet li??
what gives?

they're movie stars man..jackie chan did the canton theater and learned all the traditionals and jet li did the wushu(and they were both sick) but that was back in the day....they make movies now...neither of them have trained at a high level in ages.
that is what i am getting at here.
jackie chan and jet li are NOT top notch man...they are movie stars..
top notch what?

many have tried?

do you know what fedor emelienenko's training regimen is?
what about
rickson gracie?
frank shamrock?
mirko filopovic
hayato sakurai
royler gracie
matt serra
ernesto hoost?
takanori gomi?

stop me when you know?

your claim is way, way off base...bruce lee and his ability to train more intense than anyone?

Originally posted by Boondock78
back to the chi....all i am asking is how/when do you suppose bruce learned how to manipulate this chi, given his 'short' career and busy schedule.

He learned to manipulate his chi through careful study of the cha-cha. Yes, that's right, the dance. His total concentration and quasi-mystical abilities allowed him to master his balance, timing and endurance and win him the Crown Colony Cha-Cha Championship of 1958. Cha-cha-chi.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
He learned to manipulate his chi through careful study of the cha-cha. Yes, that's right, the dance. His total concentration and quasi-mystical abilities allowed him to master his balance, timing and endurance and win him the Crown Colony Cha-Cha Championship of 1958. Cha-cha-chi.

i forgot about his cha cha championship...

you catch where i am coming from with all this....
i still can't believe so long after his death, people still are swinging all over bruce....
anyway, i think people want to think he had this chi mastery..it helps with the stigma surrounding him...
some of this stuff was regurgitated from the movie dragon...hahahah

Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism

If its not then DAMN!!! we best WAKE UP, if people KNEW and were TOLD that we all have this inside us, those who would have commited a crime that day..might instead be meditating; and learning to appreciate fellow human beings. Realising potentials can change lives

No chance mate, this level of mastery takes a wee bit more discipline and self sacrifice than most could even contemplate.

Even if the video is mocked, the abilities are out there, but don't expect a few minutes of TM before pizza and beer with the lads to deliver this prize ;-)

I did meet one dude who demonstrated a similar control over fire, but it's a lifetime of dedication and none of his 'students' ever got anywhere near it, as far as I saw.

The chi massage thing is not so unusual and a lot easier to find in Asia, although this guy really is intense. Nice vid.

ciao

Originally posted by Boondock78
you catch where i am coming from with all this....
i still can't believe so long after his death, people still are swinging all over bruce....
anyway, i think people want to think he had this chi mastery..it helps with the stigma surrounding him...
some of this stuff was regurgitated from the movie dragon...hahahah

The guy probably did a million sit-ups and push-ups. I'll admit that he had the focus and will to accomplish that. But in the end, he was just a guy, like everybody else. He didn't have any super mystical powers. And even if he did, what ultimate good were they to him? Did they save his life from a stupid blood vessel busting in his head? Nope. He flopped dead onto the floor, just like we all will someday.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus


The guy probably did a million sit-ups and push-ups. I'll admit that he had the focus and will to accomplish that. But in the end, he was just a guy, like everybody else.

thats where i have been coming from..he did hundreds and hundreds of pushes and sits a day..that is how he was so fit.
physical fitness.

my problems start to come in when people say he used his fitness or his chi to achieve to become this amazing martial artist when in fact, he really wasn't.
that was my other point.
to me a martial artist practices and uses it.
i'm not talking choreographed fights for the movies.
if he was so friggin sick, then he should have been joining competitions, flying to brazil to get spanked in vale tudo...stuff like that.

it's like a pet peeve thing....seeing him high up on this martial arts pedestal...you know

Originally posted by Boondock78
what i am asking is how do you know that nobody has been able to dupliate it?
you then go to mention jackie chan and jet li??
what gives?

Many have compared Lee to them, and still do. Which is only natural since they are big martial art celebrities, as he was.

Originally posted by Boondock78
they're movie stars man..jackie chan did the canton theater and learned all the traditionals and jet li did the wushu(and they were both sick) but that was back in the day....they make movies now...neither of them have trained at a high level in ages.

That's not true. Just because someone is in film does not make him or her "over the hill."

Jackie Chan was once a stunt man for a Bruce Lee film, prior to Enter The Dragon.

And yes...Jet Li was an international forms champion before he went into appearing in major motion pictures.

Originally posted by Boondock78
many have tried?

Bruce Lee can be accurately regarded as an early MMA pioneer and champion. After all, Jeet Kune Do is essentially an eclectic martial art that includes grapling techniques.

Originally posted by Boondock78
your claim is way, way off base...bruce lee and his ability to train more intense than anyone?

I stand by that opinion, as do many others. When you find an online video to demonstrate what you are talking about, provide us with a link.

The one you provided earlier doesn't cut it. It is not even close to what Lee did in Enter or Fists of Fury.

Not by a long shot.

But keep trying.

Sonny Chiba was the Japanese answer to Bruce Lee. But he wasn't as good either. He was excellent nonetheless

Show us people on video who can kick and punch with great speed and also demonstrate great power in their techniques.

And not just katas champions.

Many would like to see it.

I would too.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

So it bugs you. Does that mean you merit a counter argument? I just used him as an example. He is an excelent example because he was a teacher and one of his areas of expertise was the force known as chi. Wheather he is an authority on the subject is just conjecture, that is an oppinion. As far as he being the best or not, thats another argument based on opinion. The fact that no one has been able to replicate his speed or power is a FACT. sooooo.......again can we steer away from this 2-3 page argumant over THE MAN(which he is,IMO). Now, if you really want to continue down this road I'll leave it at that. want to talk about another "chi" related subject then cool..if not your just going to have to do it without the likes of me, although it would seem like a waste to me , since I really am interested in this sort of thing, just dont like useless arguments.

Wow you guys really are going in circles here, like the last guy said, lets move on from Bruce Lee for now, its not getting anywhere. Talk about something else.

I tend to agree newyorkee.

We should not focus too much on this issue but get back on track with the subject of Qigong and related.