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WOW!! Qigong magic..jeEEez, if this is real..Whew!!Must Watch Very Interesting!!

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posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:06 AM
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here is something that has a little of your camp and a little of mine

forum.kungfumagazine.com...


forum.kungfumagazine.com...

[edit on 9-8-2007 by newyorkee]




posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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In my opinion: Kungfu is used for distance fightning, with a view to closing the gap quickly for an instant take down, good for a get in/get out situation.

Although most REAL fights end up as such, you don't really want to be rapped up in a tussle with someone on the street, that could leave you wide open to what you DON'T see happening around you.

Thats where "Boxing" comes in, designed for close quarters. If you end up in a grapple, its useful to know what to do with your fists/knees at that point.

I believe Bruce Lee took the elements of Boxing and added them to his own style.

But yes, I do agree that it all comes done to being "well rounded". There are varying stages to a fight, "distance (or lack of)" being one of them. So relly you need to know styles that deal with each of these factors that arrise in a true fighting situation.

A little bit confused by the two vids above though, did Delucia learn to grapple only AFTER he lost that fight in 23secs. What happened there


AoN

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by newyorkee
You know my real quam with grapeling, its not a multi opponent fighting system. any of them..


which is why the most successful FIGHTERS cross train.

thats why i say train muay thai and a grappling discipline...

thing is, none of that kung fu jive is set for multiples either...
grappling is not designed for a ring. it's designed for the ground and it has been shown time and time again that if you are a standup fighter and you are fighting a grappler, and the grappler wants you down, you go down.
see the above video i posted....

you can't throw kicks and punches from the ground...
also, you act like bruce invented the idea of cross training...it was going in in brazil long before he was born....give bruce his propers but get of his jock man...

en.wikipedia.org...


this will make you feel better

The combat system Jeet Kune Do may be considered both a fighting philosophy and a hybrid martial art, since it can incorporate techniques from any martial art. Some consider Jeet Kune Do to be the precursor of mixed martial arts.

^^^key word some

en.wikipedia.org...

While practicing Western wrestling, Lee was once pinned by a opponent, who asked what Lee would do if he found himself in the situation in a real fight. Lee replied, "Well, I'd bite you, of course".. Lee's goal in Jeet Kune Do was to break down what he claimed were limiting factors in the training of the traditional styles, and seek a fighting thesis which he believed could only be found within the event of a fight...

^^^even your hero. THE MAN realized that the traditional styles were NOT practical, which is what i have been saying this whole thread....thats why later in his life, he dumped the traditional stuff. he was moving towards some killer stuff, and he died....i would have much, much more love for bruce though if he actually fought...

Circumstances in a fight change from millisecond to millisecond, and thus pre-arranged patterns and techniques are not adequate in dealing with such a changing situation

^^^which is why in real life, the punches/kicks don't look amazing like the kicks from enter the dragon...even if bruce were in a fight, his kicks and such would be much different.....can you not agree with this?

see this part carefully...it is from his JKD combat ranges...

No high kicks

^^^^cause unless you devote much time to the proper way, they are risky. they leave you open and on one foot which is dangerous if you are fighting a grappler.


maybe we are more on the same page now.....all those reasons i posted above are why i give bruce all kinds of propers...he was a fantastic philospher and he had it all right with this aspect of jkd...still though, people put him up on this pedestal and that is quite annoying...

got all these bruce lee fanboys in here talking about how rad the traditionals are, and you got your own idol, bruce lee basically saying, NOPE. not effective, lets go for something else.
yet, some of you still hang on to this traditional stuff.

i don't get it



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by newyorkee
These are a few of the fights that Bruce participated in the ring and out.

1958:
vs. Gary Elms in a tournament. (Won)
1958 or 1959:
Against Chung on a rooftop in Hong Kong. (Won in 2nd Round)
1960 - Seattle:
Bruce backfisted a guy and busted his nose after Bruce saw him harrassing a Chinese Girl. Bruce was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile.
1960 or 1961:
vs. Uechi. (Won in 10 seconds)
Summer 1963 - Hong Kong:
Bruce snapped a low kick to a punk's shin after the punk and his friend harrassed him during an evening stroll. "



ok, to the post above yours...i agree with bruce and his abandonment of the traditional stuff.

as to these fights....where did you pull these from?
2 of them are not 'fights' but more bruce hitting someone...
it says he 'won'...well, how did he 'win'..

anyone to back these up? any pics? anything at all



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Actually my friend, Kung fu is totally the contrary. It is designed for close quarters combat. It focuses on the efficient use of internal power over external surroundings. A person, a wall, bound hands, its designed to make the most of the space you have, or the room you can get.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by newyorkee]



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:18 AM
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Now for a little humour


I would NOT like to get into a grapple with THIS guy


He would liturally "slip through your fingers".





AoN



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:20 AM
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Yeaqh I know they were probably one hit wonders, but, he used his art, for more than "movies". He is well respected for being one to practice what he preached. I have never seen a "fake" start a fight. I have never seen them win very many either. Just to prove that he wasnt a jon claud that gets his ass kicked by his own body guards. He never had any, though he did have real enemies that would have wanted nothing more than to make him an egg roll. He was the real deal....no?



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
In my opinion: Kungfu is used for distance fightning, with a view to closing the gap quickly for an instant take down, good for a get in/get out situation.

^^^that is what it is meant for but it is not the most effective...check muay thai for distance fighting..then, the thai clinch for close in fighting..knees and elbows....


Thats where "Boxing" comes in, designed for close quarters. If you end up in a grapple, its useful to know what to do with your fists/knees at that point.

^^^even if the fight is between two guys that don't know how to grapple, if it is on the street, with no rules, chances are it is going to go to the ground..you can't throw effective strikes from the bottom.
i dropped boxing for muay thai....boxing will teach you some SICK footwork though.

I believe Bruce Lee took the elements of Boxing and added them to his own style.

^^he did

So relly you need to know styles that deal with each of these factors that arrise in a true fighting situation.

^^agreed. you need to learn how to close the distance and keep in a clinch

A little bit confused by the two vids above though, did Delucia learn to grapple only AFTER he lost that fight in 23secs. What happened there


AoN



[edit on 9-8-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

wat happened in that vid was delucia got owned....
he fought royce at ufc 2 as well and royce broke his arm in the first round with an armbar from the bottom.
his wins are over mediocre fighters at best....
he is good at kung fu/JKD and well, that don't work in the real fight world.



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by newyorkee
He is well respected for being one to practice what he preached.

^^^what are you talking about......he practiced by showing people those moves in class or at demo's? ok

He was the real deal....no?


^^are you asking me? no, he was not the real deal...IMO a 'real deal' is someone who has proven their worth in the fight game. bruce did NOT do that.
aside from that, i give bruce much propers for his philosophy, he willingness to drop the traditional crap that don't work, and his dedication to fitness.
as far as HIS application...i have yet to see it as i have never seen a single bruce lee fight...
i am still waiting though

as to the kund fu post, ok, it focuses on the efficient use or eternal power...i don't too much care...it's a waste unless you are giving a demo on stage....how come delucia didn't use any of that efficient crap when royce owned him?
he didn't even land one strike.

edit* btw, i am not trying to bait anyone...i love talking martial arts and all this stuff. if we all had the same opinions it would be boring...
i can talk/debate this all day, every day...i love the subject...

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Boondock78]



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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I retract all previouse statements, they guy in the red turban is THE MAN. He is my new fanboy passion...LMFAO



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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wat happened in that vid was delucia got owned
Yeah, i saw that in the first vid, but in the SECOND vid (to guys dressed in white, one guy getting TOTALLY shamed).... what was happening there?

Was that ALSO Delucia? and if so, how come he's a master of throws/holds when the first video shows that he blatently wasn't?

Cheers

AoN



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:32 AM
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It was the cinema exposure that gave Bruce all the fame.

There are other people like this....Elvis....James Dean, they gained a lot of followers because of the exposure in the public eye. Why did all of these people make an early exit? It makes one wonder if there was another reason for why they checked out early!

I know that a person who is strong in Chi energy will not boast about this, let alone to perform in front of the world. That says to me, Bruce may have had some of the Chi power, but not like what you would get from a Master using the full extent of this power.

Also, to say he had none is wrong. Bruce likely did unlock some of his Chi, but I do think he only scratched the surface of what he may have been able to accomplish. He didn't want to go the route necessary to become really great. He was lured by fame and fortune.

I could say Elvis had the use of Chi, as much as Bruce Lee, and I probably wouldn't be far off.

There is a reason why certain people are taken earlier than others.

This life force energy is available to every single being living on this planet.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by win 52]



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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I think we are missing something, bruce lee wasnt documented fighting in real situations, though he has had a number of opponents admit to having fought him. So if its not on tape or in tournament for fame and wealth, its not valid?



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism

[ but in the SECOND vid (to guys dressed in white, one guy getting TOTALLY shamed).... what was happening there?

Was that ALSO Delucia? and if so, how come he's a master of throws/holds when the first video shows that he blatently wasn't?

Cheers

AoN


that as delucia...on the vid both in white, that was delucia giving us a demo of his 'combat aikido'...trying to show us how effective it is.

when he fights gracie, we clearly see that in a real fight, it does not work like that....this has been my point the entire thread

he is a master of aikido and kung fu, when he is in the dojo training/teaching....fighting=different



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:45 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

Jason DeLucia (born July 24, 1969 in Bellingham, Massachusetts) He has a professional MMA record of 34-21-1 as of Feb 4, 2006. He practices the Five Animals style of Kung Fu and also Aikido. He is known for losing twice to Royce Gracie, once at UFC 2 and another time in a private match, when Gracie was as yet unknown

Jason has also accused former King of Pancrase Champion Bas Rutten, of being a steroid user and a coc aine addict[2]. Jason DeLucia fought Bas three times with the outcome of each fight resulting in a loss

^^^bwuahahahahaha

rutten owned him too.

34-21



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by newyorkee
So if its not on tape or in tournament for fame and wealth, its not valid?


come on with the reaching again...how much wealth did royce aquire from that closed door match with delucia?

it is not valid if there is nobody that can back it up. no film of it, no pictures of it. no articles or anything about it....

it don't have to be in a tourney or anything.

again, closed door matches are very common and have been going on for years and as you can see, the camera is even there sometimes...
i just want to see ONE fight from bruce...1 real fight...
i have yet to see it.
opponents said they fought him??that means nothing
who are they? where are they?
as to all those wins where it simply says bruce won, well, how did he win?
how do we know he had fantastic accuracy and strength in his strikes during a real fight if we have not seen any of it?


here is rickson taking a challenge on a beach in rio....see, they touted themselves as having the best style, and took ALL challende



here is rickson in brazil at 18 years old fighting in a no rules match against rei zulu



can't say you're a great fighter if you don't fight



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 11:56 AM
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this guy is doing something with healing sounds.

www.youtube.com...

i didn't watch it all but you guys might like it



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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You know, I never said I didnt think there were people in mma that could defeat bruce lee, I was arguing his validity, which I have to say never crossed me as an issue. I will ask this, in terms of contribution to the arts, can you name a SINGLE person who has provoked more interest, or thought to the advancement of the arts. The gracie legend is dieing out, and as far as their contribututions, they have a long lineage, where as bruce lee was just a single man.I mean the whole quantifying a person on their willlingness to fight is really limited. this being in direct contradiction to the philosophies of many practioners. In the martial ars community, people that go around trying to "prove" them selves are just jerks that need to meet someone who is a bigger jerk. I cant see why if someone succesfully avoids fighting his whole life why he would be seen as illegitamte even though he dedicated his life to the advancement of the arts. He was great man, not the best, GREAT. thats all. He was not sloppy. He was not a fraud. He did fight since if he hadnt I doubt any of the major figures of the time would have acknowledged him as being nothing short of great. They may not all agree over his supremecy, but all validate his claim to being one of the "GREATS" his over all contribution, imho, makes him THE MAN. BRUCE LEE ROCKS, and yes others may rock along with him. But no one else is an icon like him. He is the elvis of martial arts, the king.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by newyorkee]



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 12:12 PM
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I agree with you Boondock the whole Bruce Lee mythos is blown way out of proportion. The man was an actor. That takes nothing away from his physical prowess but it proves little of his combat abililty. From what I've read and heard about the man he didn't possess any supernormal powers from chi. Quite the contrary he dedicated his life to improving his biggest flaw, his flexiblity. When he was young this was his biggest problem. The best fighters are MMA but Lee can't be credited with the idea. You hear a lot of talk that no style is better than another but that's not a completely true statement.
Anyways I digress to the topic of chi.

Do I believe it exists, sure. However, there are so many frauds out there that you must be careful. Many feats of "chi power" are simply physics or mental tricks. A lot chi experts will say they can tear a phonebook using chi. That has nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of basic principles. It took me a few tries but it can be done by virtually anyone. The key is that you leave enough air between them so that it is more of ripping individual sheets than a whole book.

I enjoy qi gong and the sensations I feel and the experiences I've had are undeniable. But, to call it mystical is an exaggeration. People seem to think the main point of chi are "powers" but any teacher worth a lick of salt will tell you otherwise. It is essentially about the ancient quest for immortality. The chinese believed through these practices they could create the light body. But there's way to much to get into here. Those that practice it for martial arts purposes, some schools of thought believe that it shortens the life span of the individual. The intense training and so "heat" deteriorates our bodies quicker. Other schools use it for healing, however many see chi as a finite thing and wouldn't dare waste it on trivial tricks. If you want to practice qi gong for powers I suggest you don't do it at all. Do it because you enjoy it and as an old chinese proverb says while sitting still the butterfly will come to you if you chase it you will never catch it.

There were once 3 young students and the master said to them today you will begin a special training. He gave two of them sticks shaped like a pencil and pointed to two separate huts. Go and once you can move your stick with the power of your mind you can come out. He then gave the least gifted among them a pitcher of water and a glass. He said you must fill this glass with the water using the power of your mind. Then the best among them asked the master why he had a simple stick and the worst had the harder challenge. The master quieted him and sent them off.

An hour later the boy who had to fill the glass was outside running around and playing. The Master asked the boy if he was finished and he said yes. He asked the Master if he wanted to see how he did it but the Master said he will wait for the other two. A month later the other boy appeared outside. Then a year passed and the best student still had not come out. Then twenty years finally passed and he emerged triumphant. Master I have done it! I can move this stick with only my mind. Surely I am the first. The Master then called for the other two students who arrived with their wives and children. The Master said, they finished twenty years ago and now I'll ask you all to show me how you accomplished your task. The other boy who had the stick moved it seemingly with his mind. But he then explained he had found fishing wire and taught himself how to move it with that while only making it look like he used his mind. Then the worst student took a pitcher of water and poured it into the glass. I thought about pouring the water and then I did it. I used my mind he said laughingly. It took you twenty years to learn how to move a stick with your mind only a few inches, now you know why I didn't give you the pitcher of water.



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 12:24 PM
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very true, the quest for "power" is pointless. I do beleie in the ability of the mind to do some amazing things, but I dont support the whole notion of super powers. Inate abilities, imo, are more practical when they are concerned with the pursuit of wisdom. Thought is the real super power.



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