How can you honestly believe in God.

reply to post by jakyll


Yes, it is the adversary. It is not in heaven, as it was cast out.

reply to post by depth om


I should say that people do the same with Jesus' life.The biggest and most common mistake people make with the bible is when they quote Paul and then claim its what Jesus said!

They were 2 very different people with 2 different philosophies!

reply to post by depth om


So who does the job of challenging the faith of people?

Not God,he tests.

Not Jesus,he recruits.

reply to post by jakyll


The adversary, Satan. challenging you to take your will into your own hands, as he himself did. He knows this only leads to bitterness and agony. He wishes to bring his fate upon everyone he can. (I'm using "he" only to speed the writing process)

reply to post by depth om


So we wern't created with free will?

reply to post by AncientVoid


Where is this implied?

We make choices, we are not robotic.

Originally posted by depth om

The adversary, Satan. challenging you to take your will into your own hands, as he himself did. He knows this only leads to bitterness and agony. He wishes to bring his fate upon everyone he can. (I'm using "he" only to speed the writing process)

The bible says man was created with free will right? Then why does the Satan need to challeng us to take our own will into our hands? Don't we already have them there?

reply to post by depth om


The job of the Satan is to challenge mankind's faith,not to corrupt it!
The "Devil" wants mankind to sin and join his domain.That shows that there is a difference between the two!


The link below gives an interesting look at how,in the Christian faith,we really do not have free will.And it should be remembered,that making a choice or a decision is not the same as having free will!









[edit on 17-9-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


Of course God knows who is going to be in his kingdom. He knows all, but we do not. His reality is different from ours, the ways in which we percieve and operate. We as human beings must make choices. We are not robots, God simply knows what was, what is, and what will be.

We simply have to choose direction. We have to direct our course through personal decisions every day.

All the people on this earth, who do not know who Jesus is, God desires for those who have heard the news, to deliver it. When it is heard, there will be those that open themselves up to receive it, and there will be those who deny.

God knows who they will be, but the missionary and the converts themselves know not beforehand.

Originally posted by depth om
Of course God knows who is going to be in his kingdom. He knows all, but we do not. His reality is different from ours, the ways in which we percieve and operate. We as human beings must make choices. We are not robots, God simply knows what was, what is, and what will be.

If god did know everything and is everything you say he is, then we are just robots. No matter what we do, god knows. We are then just puppets and can not change our chosen fate no more than we can move the sun.

Originally posted by depth om
We simply have to choose direction. We have to direct our course through personal decisions every day.

No matter what we do, the path is already chosen for us. It just seems like we are chosing it, but infact we are bound by a string which only leds to a pre-chosen place. That is if god existed.

Originally posted by AncientVoid

No matter what we do, the path is already chosen for us. It just seems like we are chosing it, but infact we are bound by a string which only leds to a pre-chosen place. That is if god existed.

Pre-chosen by ourselves. Known to God.

Yes. This is how God "sees" according to scripture.

We cannot see this way. For an event to be completed, it must happen.

When you are hungry you can eat, or you cannot eat.

Since time, as we know it, does not actually exist, (the past, now, and future, all form one whole), We move through a medium of choices. A string of events known by God, not by ourselves, until we commit and see a choice through.

god is either impotent or uncaring...
that's the problem of evil in a universe governed by such a postulated entity.
either god can't stop the evil or god doesn't want to.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Man brought it upon himself. God is there, receiving everyone who goes to him.

How do you know the intricacies of Gods will? I simply know what he's told us, he answers every question man has ever had. He lets us know that we will not understand until he reveals it to us at the opening of the 7th seal.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
god is either impotent or uncaring...
that's the problem of evil in a universe governed by such a postulated entity.
either god can't stop the evil or god doesn't want to.

One man drinks the water, another man drowns another man in it.

One man uses fire for heat, another man uses fire for war.

One man uses a stick for walking, another beats another man to death with it.

One man uses his hand for comfort, the other strikes his fellow man

One man produces food for a community and not a body goes hungry, another man produces food, and sells it while his community starves..

We have been well provided for. It is man, that has chosen not to provide to each other. This is mankind gone greedy, not mankind gone good.

In what way, Madness is the Universe Evil? In what way would you Madness, in all your wisdom, have made things any different?

Im interested to hear...

[edit on 20-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY



I know your question was directed at madnessinmysoul,but i hope you don't mind me replying....

The reason mankind acts in the manner you described is because God,and God alone,created evil!!
God did not have to do this!!

God did not have to let some of his beloved Angels "go to war" and then"fall from heaven."
God did not have to let the Devil into the Garden of Eden.
God did not have to let the Devil corrupt a woman who had no idea what evil was,and therefore had no way to protect herself and her husband from sin...
All these things and more God did not have to let happen.But he did.

At any moment in time he has the power to turn the whole earth into a paradise.To say that he is waiting for the time of judgement and for people to believe in him is arrogant and egotistical beyond belief!
To lay the blame of his own idiotic behaviour at the feet of the Devil,tells you a lot about the kinda God he really is!
To say that this is God's "great plan" tells you all you need to know about Christians!


But there are 4 things they don't understand.(or they choose to ignore.)

1) If a being exists,then it must have some active tendency.
2) If beings have some active tendency,then they have some power to resist God.
3) If beings have the power to resist God,then God does not have absolute power.
4)And if God does not have absolute power then he does not have absolute control.






[edit on 20-9-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


How can I know every detail about God. I am a mere servant. A saint he tells us, yes... but I am still a lowly servant in his service. I ask questions constantly... but I truly take to heart that his word is promise. It is said that we cannot gain ultimate understanding right now. We won't know until he lets us know.

This is a big issue of debate, why God "lets" evil happen.

"If a person sins and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands, even though he does not know it, he is guilty and will be held responsible."
Leviticus 5:16-18

A chemical reaction if you can see it that way. The laws of the universe.
If you do this, this is what you get. The way of God is scientific.

Christ is not what the world has made him to be. Through faith and repentance, through forgiveness and thanks, devotion and prayer ... you begin to see who God is, what the holy spirit is, and how Christ can work in your life.

What can attack my being if it is not here? It is with Jesus.



[edit on 20-9-2007 by depth om]

Does free will and servant go together?

All these people keep on saying people are greedy and that's why there's so much evil and not god's fault. What about people that have metal disabilities? What about innocent families in third world countries? Were they greedy and that's why they suffer? If you think walking 20km just to get water is greedy then i don't know what to say. Those that believe says it's mans fault, yet you don't understand some have no choice. Easy for you to say when you aren't helpless and fortunate enough.

God can easily help these people, but you know why he doesn't? How about because he doesn't exist?

reply to post by jakyll


The Master owns a Vineyard
He Lent it out to people to run
When it came time for harvest, the Master sent a messenger to collect some of the Harvest/
Each time they came, they were beaten, killed and turned away
One day the Master said, I will send my son, perhaps they will listen to him
The people that ran the Vineyard said, perhaps if we kill the son, we can keep the Vineyard for our own.
What will the Master do when he returns? He will turn out the people running the Vineyard and replace them with people that will produce a harvest

This paradise you speak of...think you not that there will be freewill there?
Have not you heard, that there are stories of a rebellion, even in Heaven?
This Earth, there are many paradise like areas on this Earth from a planetary perspective.

In designing free will, yes, God allowed for the possibility of error which is sin. An error in action and thinking. The question is, can we overcome error.

Christ came to give witness to error free thinking called Truth. While people think his way is up for debate, it really isnt. Never was, never will be. There is no debate or question when it comes to Truth. Truth is fact. And Truth is.

The Evil you speak of is in all of us. Error like thinking and actions that religion calls sin. Everyone of us has the opportuinty to change.

The question then becomes, do you believe, or do you choose your own truth. Should you believe....

Well then Christ told us a verse in the Lords prayer that says something like...." On Earth as it is in Heaven "

Are you going to do what you want? Or do what is commanded. Once you have rejected the Truth, well, thats a mighty bold action and statement against a man who is the son of God, even if you dont believe him.

His simple and defining command was to Love the Father, and to Love one another. if you do that, you honor him, and in honoring him, you honor the father.

As far as the water statement....American Aircraft Carriers can produce 500,000 gallons of desalinated water a day. I think that we can figure out a way to get water to people that really need it..what do you think?

Whats that? Not profitable? Not possible?

Try thinking about the world as a family, as opposed to a source of revenue.

We as individuals on a daily basis can help ease the load from our fellow man if we merely give of ourselves. Who is to say what Gods plan is regarding mental disabilities..how do you know they dont see something that you dont but were convinced the were retarded.

It seems that the world of today is perfectly capable of crafting major business transactions and huge enineering leaps when it comes to big money. But when it comes to helping all of humanity, they are no where to be seen except a dedicated few..

Peace


[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

This paradise you speak of...think you not that there will be freewill there?
Have not you heard, that there are stories of a rebellion, even in Heaven?

Like you said, these are only stories. Like the story of Santa or the Easter Bunny. I wonder who told these stories in the first place...

Edit: By 'these' stories I'm talking about rebellion in heaven.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

Originally posted by AncientVoid
Like you said, these are only stories. Like the story of Santa or the Easter Bunny. I wonder who told these stories in the first place...

I like the intent of the Easter bunny as well as Santa. But they are no Jesus and Jesus is not a historical Myth.

You can have all the war and greed you want on a big plate..take a 2nd helping while your at it. Laws, and Laws on top of laws. War, and bombs and nuclear weapons until mankind chokes on it.

You see, even if there was no war, then there would be competitive wars between companies in an all capitalist world.

The Garden of Eden, figuratively speaking...( Notice I said figurative ) was not supposed to be bartered. It was for all of us. Not for Adam to run over and say..my Garden, or Eve to try and take over Adam.

If its supposed to be a world of the survival of the fittest, well, weve been trumped already. The Earth will not last forever nor will the sun. The Universe wins. God made the Universe in his infinite capacity. End of story.

When its all said and done, all mankind will be able to say is, damm we made some big bombs, we never were able to get everyone on the planet fed, but dammit Vegas was sure cool. How about them Yankess.

The arrogance of man is laughable

Peace



[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]