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How can you honestly believe in God.

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posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid

How can you love someone you don't know? It's like saying you love a random fruit you never tasted.


Correct me if i'm wrong...




As Genki Sudo says... "We Are All One"

All men (human race) share the same things. we all occupy these amazing machines, these bodies of ours.

We all have joy, we all have fear, we all have love, we all have eachother, I love my fellow man. Do you?

[edit on 15-9-2007 by depth om]




posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
humans tend not to get things 100% right.



You are absolutely correct. Man is flawed, imperfect, as are all his works.

God is perfect in all his works. Man got the big idea that God gave them...

"Christ is lord, he died so that you all may live." So whatever may arise, this shall remain in my heart.

One drop of oil pollutes much water, the fallen angel ruined this construct... disease, hate, decay.

But the construct retains much of it's glory and magnificence, as does the human race.

According to the book, near the end of the era, the world will abandon God and all that is of him. Write his decrees and his book off as trash. I believe the beast may be a living supercomputer "a blasphemy of life", infused with DNA. It will "utter blasphemies". It will declare, according to it's processes, it's logic, that God does not exist... then, man will party. Till the sun comes up... till the son comes back.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 


So what your saying is God has let billions of humans suffer in every single possible way imaginable,just because of one angel!?! And your ok with that


Your God is guilty of commiting every sin,major and minor.and to inflict such misery on so many people and all because of one insignificant incident(an incident he knew was going to happen but didn't prevent!)shows you just how cruel and petty a God he is!!

What boggles the mind too,is people who make excuses for his bloodthirsty behaviour! Its like a battered wife making excuses for her violent husband,"oh,he loves me really."

As i posted on another thread about the "all-loving & moral" christian god,
LOVE.PEACE.TRUTH.JUSTICE.ACCEPTANCE.EQUALITY.TOLERANCE etc.should never ever equal SUFFERING.GENOCIDE.RAPE.LIES.WAR.SLAUGHTER.CONTROL.SLAVERY.PREJUDICE.etc.

Yet he accepts these negative things,he has allowed the violence to happen,he has comitted acts of unspeakable horror,and everyone seems ok with it.Maybe not you,but many say evil exists to test us.Hmm,why does god need to test mankind??


(quote from vexen.co.uk)

""""God is all-knowing. It knows everything, future and past. That's the God that I'm talking about here, the omniscient monotheistic God. Such a God exists outside of time, and can see all future and past events as if they've all already happened. This chain of events has all been created by God, from beginning to end. God is immovable, immutable, beyond time. As a result of all this, God clearly knows what tests we will pass and fail. God knows if we are largely moral or largely immoral. It knows why we transgress, and it knows in detail every reason and factor that ultimately causes us to go wrong.

God therefore never needs to test anyone. God knows, even without doing a test, what the results of the test will be. Let's say God wants to test someone by allowing them to stumble across a wallet in the street with money in it. Let's assume that God considers it best if the subject hands the wallet in to the police, and worse if the subject steals the money and throws away the wallet. God knows if the person will pass such a test. God knows it because it created the person and their personality in the first place, so can work out what they will do. It also knows what the person will do because it is all-knowing, and knows all possible future events. God never needs to actually test the person, God already knows if they'll pass. To say that God needs or wants to "test" us is to say that God is not all-knowing.
God could have created a world with no evil, no suffering, and no moral confusions. That way, everyone would be happy all the time, and we would rightly know that a loving God existed. God would still know, if it allowed transgression and evil, who would succumb to temptation. But the actual creation of potential evil is not necessary. As it is clear that suffering exist and moral dilemmas abound, we know that either God is evil or doesn't exist. We certainly know that evil, confusion, suffering and anything else is not a "test" from God.""""



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
So what your saying is God has let billions of humans suffer in every single possible way imaginable,just because of one angel!?! And your ok with that




People deny the existance of God, and yet they claim to know how he operates if he were to existed. If your going to be a christian, you must accept your ignorance of God. Accept that you do not fully understand him, nor will you, until you are in his kingdom.


Suffering is the taint of the land. The construct is cursed.

If it were not for the fall, there would be no decay, and no self-concept, (that is, no desire).

If there were no desire, there would be no ill-will. No taking, no demanding, no conquering.

If you follow the christian school of thought, you realize all negative actions are because of man.

Dis-ease is because of man, the choice the first humans made. "adam and eve" had to of existed for there to be other humans. So this concept is valid, the adam and eve concept.

All other suffering... stems from the actions of man. World hunger... if we invested a fraction of the total world budget into this problem... there would be no problem. This applies to all things that plague mankind. Malignant particles (causes of disease and virus) will exist till the end though.

Man can't take care of himself. That's why there is war. Desire for either land, subjects, or wealth.

All men who do evil are judged. All men commit evils daily.

Ponder not what God allows to happen, but what man allows to happen.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by depth om]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 


So your happy to follow a God that punishes billions for the transgression of one??
As i said in another thread,thats like killing all Germans because Hitler was a genocidal nutter!!
If you had 4 children and one deliberatly broke a window,would you punish one or punish all??
Do you defend your God's violent tyrannical behaviour because of the promise of a place in heaven? Do you fear death that much?

Your right that mankind has done many evil things,but is that not the fault of God? Eve was tricked by Satan,and instead of showing compassion and condemning Satan's behaviour,he damned mankind! Does that not show how intolerant God is? Eve & Adam knew nothing of evil,so how could they defend themselves against it??

[edit on 15-9-2007 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
So your happy to follow a God that punishes billions for the transgression of one??
As i said in another thread,thats like killing all Germans because Hitler was a genocidal nutter!!
If you had 4 children and one deliberatly broke a window,would you punish one or punish all??
Do you defend your God's violent tyrannical behaviour because of the promise of a place in heaven? Do you fear death that much?

Your right that mankind has done many evil things,but is that not the fault of God? Eve was tricked by Satan,and instead of showing compassion and condemning Satan's behaviour,he damned mankind! Does that not show how intolerant God is? Eve & Adam knew nothing of evil,so how could they defend themselves against it??


Fear death? You know me not. I welcome death, it is the chariot unto life. So please, do not assume you understand my position. Don't assume you know exactly who I am and everything I think.


"Ye shall not"

Disobey, and God will judge. He said don't do this, and man did it.

And about killing all germans because of hitler... Every man has commited evil. Every man is judged. Everyman was not hitler. Every man is in the same boat, for the wages of sin are death... every sin.

The unsaved... those who have not even heard the name Jesus... it is up to the messangers of christ... christians, to bring the light to all points of the earth. It is our task to spread God. Man can right many of the wrongs of this world.

The one thing man cannot right, is his own mind and desire. No man is free of evils.

Just as you do not know everything about your parents... till they tell you,
you do not fully understand God... until he tells you. I am saying that I do not fully comprehend the actions of God. How could you?

[edit on 15-9-2007 by depth om]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 


I assume nothing,that is why i ask you questions!

If God did not want Adam & Eve to disobey him,he should not have let Satan into the Garden of Eden!

I would be classed as a sinner in Gods eyes because of my sexuality.According to Christianity i cannot find forgiveness for this.Yet someone who is a rapist or a murderer or a pedophile etc,can find God and have their sins washed away!

And have you noticed that every major sin can not be avoided,ever!
Each one is what makes us human.And for those that belive we are created in God's image,that must mean he is flawed and a sinner as well!

Maybe thats why he kicked humans out of paradise.He wasn't pleased with what he had done,banished us to a wasteland,and probably made another creation to take our place.Could be why he's been absent all these centuries,he no longer has an interest in mankind.




[edit on 15-9-2007 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


If you accept Christ... all is forgiven. All.

It is known from the Bible that God allows his subjects to be tested.

Adam and Eve were put to the test.

How do you know someones true allegiance if it is not tested?

Man was made in Gods image. But man wasn't made God, there is only one God. So "God is a sinner" is invalid. Man was put to the test and failed. It would've been so easy to pass, but the serpent planted the ego in mans mind.

"You'll be like God." God even let them know, you will cease to exist if you disobey me, "you will die". "Who cares" they thought, "this being said otherwise!"

We were able to discern because of the fruit. Discernment is powerful.
Man obviously cant control this thought process. If he could, there would be no strife. There's too much confusion in the world, too much fear. More love is needed. That's all a christian should be, a vessel of love, belief and faith.



[edit on 15-9-2007 by depth om]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by depth om
It is known from the Bible that God allows his subjects to be tested.

Adam and Eve were put to the test.

How do you know someones true allegiance if it is not tested?
[edit on 15-9-2007 by depth om]


I thought all knew all? Doesn't he? So why bother testing, he would already know the answer to his creation surely...



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 



Exactly. We do not fully understand God. You've shown this. I have shown this.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 06:49 AM
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the simple issue here is proof...
you can't prove god exists..
if you can't prove something exists, you don't believe in it.

that's how the world works with regard to everything else, why this one special exception?



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the simple issue here is proof...
you can't prove god exists..
if you can't prove something exists, you don't believe in it.

that's how the world works with regard to everything else, why this one special exception?


Faith exists. Faith in God exists, belief exists. If you can't prove something that you believe in to other people, you have quite a powerful faith. This is what God asks of us.

[edit on 16-9-2007 by depth om]



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 


Why is it Christians always use the argument,"we don't know God's plan"?

Bottom line is,he is punishing many for the actions of one!! A person who had no idea what evil was and therefore did not know how to protect herself from it.The fault of that is God's.He alone failed to teach Adam & Eve about evil.It is God who has failed mankind,not mankind who has failed God,for he alone knows all,and he alone knew what would happen,and he never once tried to stop it.


That tells you 2 things,
1)God is either not all knowing and powerful.
2)or God is not in control.

Its also possible that Lucifer was never an angel,but that he was the other half of Yahweh;the negative to the positive.We all know that without chaos there is no order in the universe,there is no balance!!



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Sin is scientific. Just as qi is, and karma is. Like gives rise to like. Sin births sin.

The LAWS of nature involve sin. It is real, and it caused a chemical reaction.

It's all tainted. God didn't abandon us, we (first man and woman, there had to be a matriarch and patriarch) abandoned him.

But he reached his hand out, he knows what we face and he's right there waiting for us to move towards him. It's our CHOICE wether or not we grab on and keep our grip tight, so that he may deliver us out of the pit of death and time. No time, no wavering through low period and high. Only the positive remains.

Just as oil does not mix with water, sin affects reality. The choice has been presented. Do what you may.

There is no chaos, only finer and finer alteration.

Lucifer did not bow to man when God commanded all of his angels to do so. Because he did indeed love God so much.

He did not listen to God. He was blinded by pride (Lucifer was made of fire, man of clay) so much so, that he forgot that no matter the command, it is to be followed.

[edit on 16-9-2007 by depth om]



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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Just one question...
Where do you get all that information from?



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 


The Bible and personal conclusions arrived at through meditation of the word.

I can explain all my statements in more detail.

What confuses you, if anything?

[edit on 16-9-2007 by depth om]



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 



The story of Lucifer's fall hardly appears in the bible or any other scripture.I'd say about 95% of all stories of Satan come from man and mans idea of what happened.They projected their thoughts onto a subject that didn't even exist to the earliest Christians!


You say that we must obey God at all times,so if he said something to you like....

"""Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.""" (Isaiah 13:15-16)

"""And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark...""" (Ezekiel 9:5-6)


Would you rejoice in God's destruction? Would you take innocent life?


I think this quote below shows how evil,cruel and petty God can be.

"""And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.""" (I Samuel 6:19)

He killed over 50,000 people for looking into the Ark




Should say,i know it seems like i'm "attacking" your faith.I'm not,i'm trying to understand it



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 


Nothing, just want to know where you got your 'facts' from...



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 08:19 PM
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Revelation 12:9 "He was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is also called the Devil and Satan"

Book of Enoch (xxix. 4, xxxi. 4), where Satan-Sataniel (Sataniel/Satanel "The Keeper of Hell") is also described as a former archangel. Because he contrived "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the earth and resemble 'My power' on high", Satan-Sataniel was hurled down, with his hosts of angels, to fly in the air continually above the abyss. (Jews reject this book for it prophecies of Christ.)

Pardon my usage of the name Lucifer, I am referring to the one expelled from God's kingdom.

He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luke 10:18

Concerning Isaiah 13, that is an oracles romantic and bold interpretation of God's judgement.

Concerning Samuel 6... God laid out clear rules, he declared that no one shall look into the ark.

Concerning Ezekiel 9...

"While they were killing and I was left alone, I fell facedown, crying out, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! Are you going to destroy the entire remnant of Israel in this outpouring of your wrath on Jerusalem?"

9 He answered me, "The sin of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great; the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of injustice. They say, 'The LORD has forsaken the land; the LORD does not see.' 10 So I will not look on them with pity or spare them, but I will bring down on their own heads what they have done."

Read before and after said scriptures to broaden your perspective.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 


Yes,i'm aware of all these quotes.What i meant was,it doesn't go into great detail.Also,people quote stories of Satan's life and behaviour that doesn't appear in any holy book!

In chapter 6 of the Book of Enoch,Lucifer is not the leader of the Angels as many believe.


1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'


And Satan just means adversory,it is a title given to an angel who works for the divine council.So in your belief that means there's a Satan(s) in heaven this very moment,doing the work of God!

[edit on 16-9-2007 by jakyll]



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