Who Here Will Accept A Real ID Card???

For now, most of us here in the u.s.a. realize there is too much corruption in our government right now to consider giving them a system to control us

Are most of the people who are anti chip and card American? It might be a cultural bias.

It just may be. As I've noted from earlier posts, you have some of your animals chipped, right? I'm not sure, but for us, Americans that is, this is a completely new idea. I have heard it discussed about animals, and whatnot, but I think our current realization of the absolute corruption in our government leads us to be skeptical of such ideas.
Maybe in other countries it isnt such a hot topic, but speaking about America it appears very foreign or 'new' to many people. At least all people I have mentioned this to. Most citizens look at me as insane when I mention new 'ids' or 'chips', which just goes to show how 'out of the loop' we all are. So, when this idea gets introduced without any prior understanding of the matter, people seem to be shocked.

It just may be. As I've noted from earlier posts, you have some of your animals chipped, right? I'm not sure, but for us, Americans that is, this is a completely new idea. I have heard it discussed about animals, and whatnot, but I think our current realization of the absolute corruption in our government leads us to be skeptical of such ideas.
Maybe in other countries it isnt such a hot topic, but speaking about America it appears very foreign or 'new' to many people. At least all people I have mentioned this to. Most citizens look at me as insane when I mention new 'ids' or 'chips', which just goes to show how 'out of the loop' we all are. So, when this idea gets introduced without any prior understanding of the matter, people seem to be shocked.

Really? Chipping your pets isnt standard in the US?!

Wow, i didnt know that.

It happens when you get a new pet. you take it to the Vet to get its first checkup and everything and they offer to implant a chip. It takes 5 minutes at the most.

It has information on it which has the owners contact details, so if the animal does a runner or something, anyone can take it to a vet and find out where the owner lives and contact them.

Its really odd, i thought all western countries had chipped pets.

hmmm, i must think on this.

I think it's also worth noting that while the DHS was previously inclined toward the use of RFID enabled ID cards, according to the DHS's proposed Real ID rules they are now planning to use PDF-417 2D barcodes on the cards instead.

DHS is recommending that States use the PDF-417 2D bar code and DHS leans toward recommending that States protect the personally identifiable information stored in this 2D bar code by requiring encryption, if the operational complexity of deploying a nationwide encryption infrastructure to process access by law enforcement can be addressed.

Pdf File Source
HTML Source

Here are some links regarding the PDF-417 standard:

Barcodeman.com

IDAutomation.com

EDIT: I would like to add that I know several people who have their dogs chipped for the purpose of tracking them in the event that they should run away or become lost. It does happen in the U.S. and it is indeed routinely offered by veterinarians as far as I'm aware. It probably isn't as common as in other countries, however.

[edit on 8/18/2007 by AceWombat04]

Yeah fair enough.

True.

Originally posted by admriker444
thats the idea the NWO sells us on...convenience.

Take a look at those Visa tv commercials. The one where the line is running smoothly as everyone pays with their Visa card. Then suddenly the line comes to a screeching halt as one customer dares to pay with cash. And the folks look at him like he broke some law. That folks is the elitist PR machine in motion.

You all arent looking beyond the mere convenience factor. The folks behind this real ID have nefarious intentions.

That commercial makes me giggle despite the attempts to hide the propeganda.

I am the person that pays cash.

I will resist an RFID card.

The first time I had a clue about this stuff was when I went to Wal-Mart for cigarettes. They swiped my ID.
I was furious.

I asked the cashier if she could read. She said yes. I asked her why did I need my card swiped. Like a drone she said, "That's policy!"

I have never purchased age restricted material from Wal-Mart again.

How do you demagnitize an ID anyway? And is there a point to it?

[edit on 24-8-2007 by morbidtracie]

I love all the people who claim that they'll never accept a National ID card.

All that will change the first time that they can't cash a check, get on public transportation, board an airplane, or get tossed in jail for some minor traffic vilation.

I already have a drivers license, a draft card, my social security card, four major credit cards, a library card, a safeway card, an ace hardware card, an albertsons card, etc.

What is one more card to me?

I got a couple already a VISA a MASTERCARD a Drivers Liscense. Welcome to a new world order.

Originally posted by Mikey84
Bring on the Real ID card, would make things a lot easier.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson

So how many credit cards did thomas Jefferson own?

Sorry mate, different times, different rules.

reply to post by Octavius Maximus


Doesn't matter. A credit card and a national ID are two completely different things.

[edit on 8/25/2007 by Infoholic]

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson

So how many credit cards did thomas Jefferson own?

Sorry mate, different times, different rules.

Freedom, is timeless, technology may change, people may come and go but man was always intended to be free, Our founders understood this.

In a free country my rights should be respected, If I choose not to conform to something which violates my freedom, Then I should not be penalized for such things, I was born a citizen of this country, And by birth right I am free, ruled by no man or Government, Government only role in our lives is the protection of our rights and to make sure no man or outside power ever disturbs such things.

[edit on 25-8-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by morbidtracie



I am also a person who uses cash, i don't have any credit cards and never will, I'm not supporting the system anymore then i have to.

Credit cards are nothing less then the BS the Federal Reserve pulls on us, Giving us something that doesn't exist, then making us pay it back at interest.

They want us to move away form cash, because then its much easier to control us, cant skip out on unconstitutional taxes anymore, everything you buy is ttracked every place you go is tracked, and if you think for moment the things you do, wont be tabulated then red flagged if you get to much of something, then you got another thing coming...

I will not have this forced upon me because it goes against liberty.

I'll accept one only if it has the KMA code in it.

The code is used to indicate to authorities that you are to be left alone.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I already have a drivers license, a draft card, my social security card, four major credit cards, a library card, a safeway card, an ace hardware card, an albertsons card, etc.

What is one more card to me?

Well I guess you’ll be able to eliminate the driver’s license, draft card, social security card, and library card from that list when you get one of these. I am sure the credit cards will follow shortly after.

Maybe the problem is that it’s too much like the “One Ring”:

“One Card to rule them all,
One Card to find them,
One Card to bring them all,
And in the Darkness bind them…”

Freedom, is timeless, technology may change, people may come and go but man was always intended to be free, Our founders understood

one, thanks for the platitudes. But freedom may be timeless. But ideas have to change with evolution.

How is this not free? It is freeing a person from carrying hundreds of forms of ID and other cards and putting them all in one place.

Anyway, STOP ASSUMING EVERYONE IS AMERICAN.

YOUR founders may be big on Freedom, Mine saw a big land full of resources and a place to keep Convicts.

Go them, i say. It makes how far we have come all the more glorious.

Government only role in our lives is the protection of our rights and to make sure no man or outside power ever disturbs such things.

So it isnt a way to protect you from outside influences?

No, a government is a leader. The strongest of the tribe chosen to make decisions for the betterment of his people.

How is it destroying your freedom?! Goddamn it. It is a card, or a chip, which puts everything in one place.

You have a licence on you saying your name, doesnt it?

Your address?

Its all on you anyway. Mays well save yourself from the dillusion.

I am also a person who uses cash, i don't have any credit cards and never will, I'm not supporting the system anymore then i have to.

Pfff, so you dont use a convenience because its 'supporting the system'. If you hate the system so much you should go and live as a hermit somewhere. because anything apart from total Anarchy is supporting the system.

Credit cards are nothing less then the BS the Federal Reserve pulls on us, Giving us something that doesn't exist, then making us pay it back at interest.

Then why do other countries without the federal reserve have credit cards then?

We use it to buy things sooner and be able to pay it off later. Holidays and such.

They want us to move away form cash

Hell, I want to move away from cash. I hate having some money on me and some in an ATM. I want it all in one place, it pisses me off because it is so illogical.

cant skip out on unconstitutional taxes anymore

Unconstitutional, im beginning to hate that word. How is a tax unconstitutional?

Even if it is, how will your government survive without taxes?

everything you buy is ttracked every place you go is tracked

Now...i would take a moment here to simply say this.

So your tracked, who the hell cares about you so much that they want to watch your movements?

wont be tabulated then red flagged if you get to much of something, then you got another thing coming...

Well why would you get too much of something? If your saying like getting too much change or something. Whats the huge loss?

I will not have this forced upon me because it goes against liberty.

Oh you poor martyr you. Why cant you buck up?

Maybe the problem is that it’s too much like the “One Ring”:

There are many problems...The funny part is that none of them are the card. They are all the people.

Originally posted by Octavius MaximusSTOP ASSUMING EVERYONE IS AMERICAN.

Everyone may not be American by nationality but everyone by birth is born with the rights my country is supposed to protect, regardless of rather or not your country gives you these rights.

No, a government is a leader. The strongest of the tribe chosen to make decisions for the betterment of his people.

Your government may be, but my government was never intended to rule over the people, the founders of my country made that very clear, that governments role it to protect the freedom we have by birth, and not to rule over us like countries of old, Every man is born free with certain unalienable rights, these rights are to be respected, and no man, no government, and no majority can deprive you of those rights.

How is it destroying your freedom?! Goddamn it. It is a card, or a chip, which puts everything in one place.

If our government does something we the people as individuals do not like that is Democracy, However when it effects us on an individual basis against our wishes, It goes against freedom, If we the people don't want it, We should not be required to have it. Forcing us to, goes against our freedom and the Republic, I wasn't born with a card, I was born free to acquire and conform only to what I wish to conform to and nothing more.

Then why do other countries without the federal reserve have credit cards then?

I'm only familiar with how the issues within my country work and the Federal Reserve works, The dealings in other countries are not my business, nor concern.

Hell, I want to move away from cash. I hate having some money on me and some in an ATM. I want it all in one place, it pisses me off because it is so illogical.

Thats your right as an individual, however if myself or others wish to transfer currency with something physical, then that is ours. and we should not be hindered this right as its the only system of true wealth.

Unconstitutional, I'm beginning to hate that word. How is a tax unconstitutional?

Even if it is, how will your government survive without taxes?

Some taxes are unconstitutional some are not, The ones that are do not support my Government.

So your tracked, who the hell cares about you so much that they want to watch your movements?

I do.

Well why would you get too much of something?

What if you purchase certain books, or documents, this may not be an issue now but it will be.



In conclusion, I would like to thank you for your tolerance and understanding, and general lack of personal insults, Its been a pleasure replying to your post, you are the most mature person I've ever dealt with on this board by far, your addition and contributions to this board will only enlighten the rest of us as your presence is surely one of honor.

[edit on 25-8-2007 by C0le]

OM... You obviously enjoy the "pick apart" game, so... may I join in?

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
one, thanks for the platitudes. But freedom may be timeless. But ideas have to change with evolution.

The idea of me being a free man... never has to change. "Evolution" has nothing to do with losing our freedoms.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
How is this not free? It is freeing a person from carrying hundreds of forms of ID and other cards and putting them all in one place.

I'm denying your ignorance. You are trying to corrolate "convenience" with "freedom". Two totally different issues.

You obviously know nothing about what the Real ID Act is. Research it in Sec. 201, beginning at the end of page 81 here.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Anyway, STOP ASSUMING EVERYONE IS AMERICAN.

The Real ID Act has nothing to do with Australia. I appreciate your input into the thread, however, you've done nothing but come across in a means to convince people to go along with the Government in a blind manner. You've yet to give anything creditable to this discussion besides "it'll be better not to have to carry more than one card".

Research the AMERICAN law and see that it has much more to do with a loss in our freedoms... over and above an inconvenience.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
YOUR founders may be big on Freedom, Mine saw a big land full of resources and a place to keep Convicts.

Go them, i say. It makes how far we have come all the more glorious.

Glorious? Providing a place to keep convicts makes Australia glorious? Being a mere prison, makes Australia glorious?

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
So it isnt a way to protect you from outside influences?

This sets America apart from the rest of the world. Those willing to give up freedoms and liberties for a false sense of security deserve neither.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
No, a government is a leader. The strongest of the tribe chosen to make decisions for the betterment of his people.

The U.S. Federal Government was established by the Constitution to protect it's people... not imprison them. We elect "representatives". We don't elect rulers.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
How is it destroying your freedom?! Goddamn it. It is a card, or a chip, which puts everything in one place.

Again, research the law.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
You have a licence on you saying your name, doesnt it?

Your address?

Its all on you anyway. Mays well save yourself from the dillusion.

:shk: Here we go again.

A driver's license is optional. The Real ID is not, and the Real ID has a furthered purpose.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Pfff, so you dont use a convenience because its 'supporting the system'. If you hate the system so much you should go and live as a hermit somewhere. because anything apart from total Anarchy is supporting the system.

It's a choice that all free Americans have.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Then why do other countries without the federal reserve have credit cards then?

We use it to buy things sooner and be able to pay it off later. Holidays and such.

The Federal Reserve is but only part of a larger scheme. Large scale international bankers formed the Federal Reserve as one branch... just like they branched off to for whichever bank it is that you use in Australia... and across the globe.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Hell, I want to move away from cash. I hate having some money on me and some in an ATM. I want it all in one place, it pisses me off because it is so illogical.

That's your choice, as well I feel the same. I like a simplified way of purchasing.... but... Fixing your segregated cash and imposing means on free people... to have to prove that they are free are different issues. You need to find that boundary.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Unconstitutional, im beginning to hate that word. How is a tax unconstitutional?

Even if it is, how will your government survive without taxes?

We can save the "The Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional" speech for another thread.

Our Federal Government is not supposed to be the money hungry institution that it has become. The taxes paid at the state's level, of which are Constitutional, pay for the majority of the services that are given to the general populous. The Federal taxes paid (if they were done Constitutionally) would have such a tremendous impact on our Nation in a way that would benefit everyone on the citizenry level... not the corporate level.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Now...i would take a moment here to simply say this.

So your tracked, who the hell cares about you so much that they want to watch your movements?

Free people would care. We have a Constitutionally provided right to privacy from the Federal Government. They have no business following me around... whether or not I've done something wrong. I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to say that you are reading this and saying to yourself, "so... I've got nothing to hide."

My response, "so... they've got no right to invade." The Constitution is a limitation on the Federal Government's powers, not a limitation on our rights.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Well why would you get too much of something? If your saying like getting too much change or something. Whats the huge loss?

What right does the Government have limiting what I do with the money I earn?

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Oh you poor martyr you. Why cant you buck up?

Maybe you missed it, but that free person did. That free person is standing up for their rights.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
There are many problems...The funny part is that none of them are the card. They are all the people.

Ignorance... Denied.

I think its difficult for anyone who ISN"T American to understand what exactly this means to us.
Every year since I was in 1st grade in an American public school system, I have been being inendated (sp?) with the whole 'spirit' of America, and the roots of Democracy and Freedom which were the foundations of our
country.

Every year since I have been 6yrs old!!! Now, 'our government' has been slowly chipping away (no pun intended ) at our freedoms, in whatever name they deem necissary. And, I am supposed to sit down and take it?

Why have us read Animal Farm in 7th grade then?
Why, when 'they' are force feeding us this BS currently, and telling us it tastes like candy?

I think its hard for any citizen of another country, to exactly undersatnd this issue. We are not being 'crazy, paranoid freaks', in fact, that is 'exactly what our government wants mass society to believe. Make the 'masses' think that our forwarnings are dillusional, but truth is, it is this dillusion that is the only way to walk sanely.
Citizens of Australia, France, shish, even the UK, have no experiential ground to place their educated (or uneducated, depending on the person) decisions on, as a backdrop. In order to understand the issue in whole (just like in everything else in life), there is a need to have not only education on the matter at hand, but the experience to know how the education can be interpreted.

This is no 'diss' on any person of other origins or societies, but just a quick reference note that must be reitterated when people of different backrounds try to argue a point. Education is necissary, but it does not go far without the experience to lead it. America is slowly decaying from the inside out, and I can say this with my knowledgeable mind of 27 years of 'American education', and citizenship, and my soulful understanding of humankind in general.

No conspiricies, no joke. America is being stripped wether we take an Id card or not. The battle has begun.

Everyone may not be American by nationality but everyone by birth is born with the rights my country is supposed to protect, regardless of rather or not your country gives you these rights.

My country doesnt give me the rights from birth, but it doesnt interfere with them, even though it has the power to do so.

Your government may be, but my government was never intended to rule over the people

No, thats the dillusion people have about democracy. Even in Ancient Athens people didnt realise that the representatives ARE rulers, no matter what happens.

You have to give your government power, if it has no power, then it is useless.

Then why do other countries without the federal reserve have credit cards then?

I'm only familiar with how the issues within my country work and the Federal Reserve works, The dealings in other countries are not my business, nor concern.

What? The world exists still, you should speak up about it, its your freedom, isnt it?

Thats your right as an individual, however if myself or others wish to transfer currency with something physical, then that is ours. and we should not be hindered this right as its the only system of true wealth.

True 'wealth' isnt money, but that philosophical debate isnt for here.

Look, im going to use alot of terms you arnt going to like, its inherent.

But here we go.

An entire electrified monetary system is better in EVERY way, to a physical one.

Money can be more easily controlled and monitered within the system, meaning illegal exchanges such as bribery and drug deals will be MUCH more difficult.

Money is always on the person, you never end up being somewhere with no cash on you.

there are many other reasons, but i see your 'freedom babble' has made it impossible for you to see a good idea, just because it limits some 'freedoms'

I do.

No, your getting watched. Whos on the other side of the camera? Noone thats who.

What if you purchase certain books, or documents, this may not be an issue now but it will be.

This means nothing to me. Explain?

In conclusion, I would like to thank you for your tolerance and understanding, and general lack of personal insults, Its been a pleasure replying to your post, you are the most mature person I've ever dealt with on this board by far, your addition and contributions to this board will only enlighten the rest of us as your presence is surely one of honor.

Im not sure if my sarcasm detector is working or not...

But thank you. I hope it wasnt sarcasm.

OM... You obviously enjoy the "pick apart" game, so... may I join in?

Of course, dissection is required.

The idea of me being a free man... never has to change. "Evolution" has nothing to do with losing our freedoms.

Let me explain one pet hate of mine. Your gun freedoms. They were created at a time where a gun takes about a minute to reload, was horribly innacurate and incredibly innefficient.

Now, we have guns who can put around 15-50 accurate rounds into a man within a few seconds, and then reload within 10 seconds.

so now, your right to freedom of arms should have been changed to reflect this. But, of course, it wasnt because your 'freedoms will be violated'

sorry, i dont buy it.

I'm denying your ignorance. You are trying to corrolate "convenience" with "freedom". Two totally different issues.

Well how is it limiting your freedom? Your carrying the cards and info anyway, this way is easier. The only freedoms lost are the ones people 'think' the cards will be used for.

The Real ID Act has nothing to do with Australia. I appreciate your input into the thread, however, you've done nothing but come across in a means to convince people to go along with the Government in a blind manner. You've yet to give anything creditable to this discussion besides "it'll be better not to have to carry more than one card".

Ive attempted to get you to consider more viewpoints than your own.

But ive failed, it seems.

Glorious? Providing a place to keep convicts makes Australia glorious? Being a mere prison, makes Australia glorious?

A mere prison?! please. Get off your high horse. Australia has come higher and further than most countries from where it started.

This sets America apart from the rest of the world. Those willing to give up freedoms and liberties for a false sense of security deserve neither.

And those who dont trust their government deserve a bad one.

Sorry, that thing said by Lincoln or whoever it is means nothing. Especially since your actually giving up no real freedoms or liberties for REAL security.

The U.S. Federal Government was established by the Constitution to protect it's people... not imprison them. We elect "representatives". We don't elect rulers.

Im sorry, but you elect rulers. Why do you think the president is the man with the most power in the world? (grrr)

A driver's license is optional. The Real ID is not, and the Real ID has a furthered purpose.

A drivers license is only optional if your not going to drive.

What is this furthered purpose? Where is your source?

Large scale international bankers formed the Federal Reserve as one branch... just like they branched off to for whichever bank it is that you use in Australia... and across the globe.

Westpac? there was a sodding up and my pay came through 3 days late once...apart from that ive heard no 'evil'

I like a simplified way of purchasing.... but... Fixing your segregated cash and imposing means on free people... to have to prove that they are free are different issues. You need to find that boundary.

No, people need to realise the boundry isnt as scary as they thought.

Our Federal Government is not supposed to be the money hungry institution that it has become.

Im not saying that America isnt money hungry, but im saying that unless you remove private buisness and create government control over all products *Winks at Nowayreally* (you know what im talking about ) Your government will need more than just taxes to create profit and remain powerful and able to protect your freedoms.

We have a Constitutionally provided right to privacy from the Federal Government. They have no business following me around

So would they?

Think, if you want half the population watched, you will only be able to do it with the other half of the population.

Its unrealistic to believe that all people can be watched.

Criminals, though. They can be watched.

I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to say that you are reading this and saying to yourself, "so... I've got nothing to hide."

No, im thinking. "I dont mind if someone looks in my file one day, but i know each peek at mine is 10 criminals off the streets."

My response, "so... they've got no right to invade."

They only invade if you have something to hide. if you have something to hide you are doing something illegal. So therefore, you should be watched.

The Constitution is a limitation on the Federal Government's powers, not a limitation on our rights.

The constitution is both.

The constitution is a piece of paper, nothing more. A list of laws which were written a long time ago.

What right does the Government have limiting what I do with the money I earn?

Huh? Your not making sense. Getting extra change accidentally isnt 'earning' money.

Maybe you missed it, but that free person did. That free person is standing up for their rights.

and complaining about it.

Ignorance... Denied.

...ooo k.

@Nowayreally

Inundated*

wait, the roots of Democracy? Do you learn about ancient Athens?

Every year since I have been 6yrs old!!! Now, 'our government' has been slowly chipping away (no pun intended ) at our freedoms, in whatever name they deem necissary. And, I am supposed to sit down and take it?

Well...its true. But its not just that.

its the fault of the humans because they can be corrupted.

its the fault of the system because it allows corruption

Its the fault of the people because they elected a corruptible person.

There is no 1 thing wrong with America. But the whole system is wrong and needs to go.

Why have us read Animal Farm in 7th grade then?

I read that at school. I liked it. But it actually got our class discussing the merits of communism if a restriction was put onto power.

\
Citizens of Australia, France, shish, even the UK, have no experiential ground to place their educated (or uneducated, depending on the person) decisions on, as a backdrop. In order to understand the issue in whole (just like in everything else in life)there is a need to have not only education on the matter at hand, but the experience to know how the education can be interpreted.

Actually, those countries DO have a ground to understand the situation. EXCEPT for where US education is concerned. The constitution and pledge of allegiance and all that other stuff.

This is the difference.

This is no 'diss' on any person of other origins or societies, but just a quick reference note that must be reitterated when people of different backrounds try to argue a point. Education is necissary, but it does not go far without the experience to lead it.

Once again Nowayreally really shows her intelligence You do bring up some good points.

There was something in the recent movie 'Sicko' which struck a chord with me.

Governments work because they fear the reprisal of their people. The American government dont fear their people.

No conspiricies, no joke. America is being stripped wether we take an Id card or not. The battle has begun.

If you believe so, you have to do what you think is right.