Empathy, sorely lacking in the world and HERE at ATS.

Interesting that I was expecting this thread for quite some time, is was . . . let said due . . .

Even I that love political issues has come to the conclusion that is not worth it.

No matter what you want to tell others is not worth it, specially when you are tagged with an arrange of colorful names and derogatory innuendos.

Sometime so insulting that you wonder if the person from where the insults comes actually will do any physical harm to you for disagreeing with their point of view.

Scary to even thing about that, many had done harm to others for less in some instances.

I have come to the realization that even in this board where you have no clue who some of the people that become very angry at you truly are I for the first time a week ago, felt very much afraid for my safety even when it has been not direct threats against my person.

Just the insistence of people bringing up the same type of insults during a long period of time.

It feels like hate.

Thanks intrepid for the thread, I needed to bring this out.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by marg6043]

Hey intrepid. Interesting thread.

Originally posted by intrepid
Are YOU willing to empathize with a point of view that you didn't consider before?

It depends. If it's something like 'hillary is right about this', then the answer is yes. If its something like 'there are no such thing as terrorists' then common sense demands that the answer be no.

Or wallow in the mire of ignorance?

Are You assuming that the person with a strong viewpoint is ignorant?
It could very well be that they have strong convictions because they
are correct. Being correct, and knowing you are correct, isn't ignorant.

Will YOU do it?

The politically correct thing to say is 'yes'.
MY ANSWER is - it depends.

Originally posted by Springer
I have learned that whenever I shut out the opposing point of view I remain an ignorant ass.

Sometimes that's true. Sometimes.

Othertimes people 'shutting out' ARE correct and are taking a strong stand for very good reasons. If it weren't for people being correct and taking a strong stand against slavery 150 years ago, America would still be a slave owning country. If all those strong anti-slavers had 'been empathetic' and just held hands with slavers and sang songs around the campfire then slavery would still be here. (no, the slavers wouldn't have empathized with the anti-slavers and given up their free labor .. definately not).

INTREPID - empathy is great. A call to empathy is good. Being open minded is important. But if someone has a strong position on a subject it isn't always bad. Sometimes yes it is .. sometimes no it isn't. ya' know?

'Dont forget to give your smile away!', one of my late grandmothers famous sayings- Most of the time my smile spreads from person to person and a great 'chain reaction' occurs. Probably about 10% of the time, people think Im 'a little off' because it's 'improper' to be kind in their eyes. And, to the other % Im some kind of wolf in sheeps clothing ready to devour them.

Its almost as though the majority of people distrust me from the get go, because I'm acting friendly. What kind of world are we living in?

Great thoughts and inspiring words guys!

And as for a solution, I myself am waiting for my own personal sign (if it ever comes:lol as to the next step, but until then I'm just going to keep remembering to give my smile away in hopes that it may find those who really need it.

Empathy is dangerous to those in control. Empathy has been programmed out of the WEAK-MINDED and replaced with gang-like, thuggish mentality.

I applaud your thread Intrepid. Empathy starts within each person. One has to admit to their own failings before being able to see the light. One has to listen and not talk. There are a lot of walls that have to be broken down before one can experience true empathy.

Peace

Intrepid, I just had to stop and say that I thought your post was awesome. I have only been here a little while and I don't want or mean to step on anyone's toes. I'd just like to add my 1.5 cents here if that's okay.

The poster that said she felt was walking on eggshells, so as not to be too confrontational.... I understand exactly what she means. I feel it too, particularly being new here. There are lots of things I would like to add to discussions (and sometimes I do anyway! haha) but a lot of the time I don't, because I think some folks might get upset with me for giving too much of my opinion, or maybe even feel like since I'm a newbie, what right do I have to say this or that anyway. Etc. So if the thread seems a little heated I back off and go somewhere else. Some of us are not as thick-skinned as others, and let's face it but nobody likes to be slammed on the ground, no matter how seasoned you are. I think it's partly because everyone has just had their own battles to fight for so long, that we forget others have their own battles as well. This isn't just for ATS though, these same principles are in every aspect of life. Just saying in my opinion, a little listening always go a long way and never hurts. If you can understand *why* the other person feels the way they do, then you can better understand their side of the story. And you might find that, in their shoes, who knows but maybe you would feel the same way. But that takes work... it takes time actually talking to someone... it means that we can't be selfish with "me first" but instead we have to practice "you first."

There's an old Native American saying... "Never criticize another until you have walked a mile in his moccasins." I believe that's true. I think one little word, if we could remember it, would help immensely... that word being "respect." Whether we agree or disagree is irrelevant. Opinions are like bellybuttons, everybody has one. But how we act... (haha I have to admit that I liked Springer's colorful description! ) ... not just here but life in general.. how we act is a conscious choice... a decision we make. If we could use respect, with each person, each time we communicate... wow but what a difference it would make. (Heck, what a different world this would be, for that matter... but that's a bit idealistic, huh? LOL) We can at least make this little corner of the world a place where we can feel safe about discussing our theories (goodness knows, no one else wants to listen half the time!), and at the same time feel that we are respected and have a "home" here on the web with likeminded people, home being a place where we are always welcomed regardless of our stance on a certain issue, simply because of who we are.

I think people forget that... we all obviously must have something in common... otherwise none of us would be here in the first place.

Awesome thread.

Sunalei

[edit on 5-7-2007 by Sunalei]

"A little honey goes a longggggg way for all of us flies sitting on the pervibial doo doo pile of misinformation."

Intrepid?

Fantfriggintastic thread my friend! If I could flag some more I would.

Everyone has great advice to give in here.

There was an old tv commercial up here that went:

'Participaction'

"Don't just think about it...Do it...Do it...DO IT"

Let's put our words into action.

One of my lifes' mottos is that I try to leave the world in a better place than when I came in.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by TheDuckster]

Pardon me if i dont comprehend the "deep" parts in this thread. I handle two languages daily so i can get confused and when we have deep meanings or messages, i get confused.

I will: (as always) be kind and understanding to fellow posters.

I will not: Take on opposing views and agree because that is not me. I will handle them with kindness, but i will not give an inch as far as this government is concerned. However, i will handle myself tactfully and will not call names (which i never have)

Does this still make me a MORON, and NEE NEE NEE NEE BOO BOO?

With me, you get the real me. What you see is what you get.

No phoniness nere.

Originally posted by dgtempe


With me, you get the real me. What you see is what you get.

No phoniness nere.

Of course DG, I didn't see anyone say otherwise.

to Intrepid

Yeah...

Although I love the Post I do think it is sympathy you are asking for from people. There is a slight difference in connotation:

What is the difference between empathy and sympathy?

Both empathy and sympathy are feelings concerning other people. Sympathy is literally 'feeling with' - compassion for or commiseration with another person. Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person. You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't. Examples: We felt sympathy for the team members who tried hard but were not appreciated. / We felt empathy for children with asthma because their parents won't remove pets from the household.

I only state this because I see a lot of people here on ATS from different parts of the world, and most are different from the very foundation, which would make it hard to fully empathize with something you've never experienced. I do believe that if everyone of us here on ATS went through life expirencing the same lesson, we could easily jump ontp a common ground. It is my belief the our different life indoctrinations have caused a territorial stubborness that can actually cause people to be blind of something that is right in front of them.

If we were sympathetic, at least we could try to understand and hopefully one day erase that territorial tunnel-vision that many are afflicted by.

Nonetheless, great ideas and great post. I hope my semantical clarification wasn't miscinstrued, for I only used it to catalyst a point about innate indifferences.

AAC

Intrepid et al, there are many things to say about the basis of this thread, though first I would like to say that I'm glad it was brought up.

Earlier I saw my friend Lexicon on this thread. He and I crossed swords once upon a time, and may in the future. I will leave it to him to explain how I view a gentleman should handle being wrong.

Folks, we cannot change the world. The world is as it is. But we CAN change ourselves. It is to our benefit to grow. The world will not ever be as we see it needs to be.

Remember, while there are many here who do NOT live up to the standards of denying ignorance, there are many who do. It is not the quantity that are important, but those of quality that we must pay respect to.

I understand the idea that led my friend Intrepid to post this thread. But I must say that it is not the "morons" that are important, but the people of good character and sound minds that post here that are important. These are people who will accept new data, will evaluate new information, and will NOT allow themselves to be led by raw emotion.

I, personally am here for contact with those minds that are Above Average. If I need to deal with the lesser lights, than that is the cost of learning. It is not that these "morons" run the boards, though they try. But what is important to me is that in all the "noise" I find intelligence, it is the reason I am here. I will swim the worst of streams to find the pearls of great minds.

Do not sell ATS short. Yes, there are a number of narrow minds here, it's a free space. But, with careful study, we can find gold.

I am pro ATS, despite it's faults.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by NGC2736]

[Editing by NGC2736---- Because my friend Lexion would want the damn thing to look right, so I edited it twice.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't.

I'm so glad you posted this! I have wondered at the exact difference between the two words. So, all those times I was ridiculed for not being empathetic, it was true, but because I hadn't "been there", it's quite understandable. I can't be empathetic to a situation that I've never been in...

So, I'll change my promise to Intrepid to "I will be sympathetic to people's views that are different than mine."

Thanks, AAC

Whatever definition works for you is cool imo. My post was about listening to another person. Think about what they are saying. Don't just go at loggerheads. Admit, at least to yourself, that you may have something to learn. You(general "you") and ATS will be the better for it.

Originally posted by intrepid
Whatever definition works for you is cool imo. My post was about listening to another person. Think about what they are saying. Don't just go at loggerheads. Admit, at least to yourself, that you may have something to learn. You(general "you") and ATS will be the better for it.

I do hope the whole board reads the thread and applies it, I could only imagine an ATS discussion Utopia. We could cure everything!

AAC

I find it personally difficult to maintain my empathy while still denying ignorance. After about the 8,000th time somebody sails into a forum claiming to have "astounding" evidence proving once and for all the absolute truth about the alien/NWO/Zionist/whatever conspiracy, then directing me to some ranting, muddy YouTube video, it's a little difficult for me to sit down calmly with these poor, misinformed souls and explain to them the basics of logical argumentation and proof. Especially when time after time I get it thrown back in my face that, oh no, I'm the ignorant one, or I'm unwilling to listen to their brand of logic or that I'm part of the grand conspiracy myself. What's in it for me, at that point?

Then it becomes not a matter of empathy, but of child-rearing styles. Some children learn best with a pat on the head, some with a sharp crack across the knuckles. If the ultimate goal to sharpen the general level of argumentation and critical thinking, I think there's plenty of room for both styles.

To SuicideVirus

I had hoped to restrain myself longer on this thread.

But I have a lot of . . . empathy . . . for the perspective that sometimes, empathy is not the most ragingly important priority in a given thread context.

I've studied the NWO stuff since 1965 when I had to study it for my library job. There is no longer any room for doubt in my life about it. I no longer have the luxury of doubt about it.

At age 60, there's a long list of things I'm rather convinced of. I HAVE studied a long list of things extensively, in-depth, broadly--fair-mindedly etc.

I do not NOW need to REDO a lot of that study to mollify some 23 year old . . . going on 2 . . . with the shallowness of Hillery; the inexperience of a Jr High flunkout; the arrogance of Scuba Teddy etc. etc. etc. Some things are just exceedingly abundantly clear from a wide diversity of high quality sources.

I would be DENYING TRUTH were I to modify my understanding or perspective, at this point.

Sure, I'm quite willing to consider new evidence about any changes in things I already know about. But, for example, in terms of the NWO stuff, the new evidence only deepens the proof.

The UFO field has lots of disinformation, hoaxes etc. But, after studying that since 1961-ish . . . it's clear that SOME SERIOUS THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES. And some of the parameters of such things are at least roughly known or evident--and some merely highly probable.

Another thing about many posters hereon . . . and some other forums as well . . . There's a mentality of lawlessness, rebellion, hostility, arrogance that is epidemic in our era--especially in the West but to some degree around the world. This was predicted 2,000 years ago but it has definitely arrived.

And maybe what . . . 75% of the time . . . the hostility I get is from folks who are intensely dedicated to resisting, rebelling against the whole idea that there's ANY authority--especially God--an ultimate authority that would dare to hinder them doing whatever feels good whenever they wish, with whomever they wish, however they wish. And anyone who even REPRESENTS that perspective is going to get chronic, immediate and intense hostility virtually REGARDLESS of the say Conservative Christian's perspective or topic.

That's kind of a given.

What should NOT be a given hereon but often seems like it is--such hostility is ignored, maybe even aided and abetted while the LEAST SHRED of a negative perspective from a Conservative Christian that annoys someone--especially a high ranked someone--gets slapped down harshly, instantly, with no apology or recourse.

I have yet to see that even talked about, much less empathized with.

Nor, do I really expect it. Too many people are too busy trying to make mass murderers and the like feel comfortable and unoffended.

Wellllll excuse me!


[edit on 5/7/2007 by BO XIAN]

Am I talking to myself? Did no one think about the fact that there IS good posts her on ATS? Is this just about bitching over the dross?

You have to wade through the crap to find the clover. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

What the problem is, some of you want "out of the box" thinking without people responding who are truly "out of the box".

You will never find a new idea without sifting through a lot of BS.

Accept the fact that the only way a new idea will show up is at a place that lets ALL ideas sprout. So, we chop down the obvious weeds, and then we think about the real solid ideas.

That's the price you have to pay to learn. Stop grumbling about the "idiots" and start looking for, and validating, the good ideas.

I will not do your homework, but right now there is a thread that seeks to make sense of ALL the UFO/paranormal ideas floating around. It is a well thought out thread, and it deserves attention. But if you mire yourselves down in self pity for how "stupid" the threads are, you will never find it.

There is gold among the dross, and it IS worth looking for.

Deny Ignorance by looking instead of bitching.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by BO XIAN
What should NOT be a given hereon but often seems like it is--such hostility is ignored, maybe even aided and abetted while the LEAST SHRED of a negative perspective from a Conservative Christian that annoys someone--especially a high ranked someone--gets slapped down harshly, instantly, with no apology or recourse.

I have yet to see that even talked about, much less empathized with.

Nor, do I really expect it. Too many people are too busy trying to make mass murderers and the like feel comfortable and unoffended.

Wellllll excuse me!


[edit on 5/7/2007 by BO XIAN]

Could you break that down for me succinctly so that I understand what it is you are trying to get across? I'm unclear on this.

The key words here are: Self Control.

If people are finding that other posters are 'riling us up', then it's time to take a step back and take a breather.

Remember, nobody controls your emotions but you. There are no excuses. The tail doesn't wag the dog.

What? A half an hour, when this thread is meaningful, and no one to champion the side of how destitute the greater bulk of ATS?

It is not empathy that we lack. For there are always those that will let emotion run them to defend the absurd. What is lacking is the understanding that not everyone is "up to speed" on every issue. And this is a fault of those who have been here a while.

This is a failure of the "old timers" to have memory of those days when they too were not "in the know". You are being critical of certainty in their posts, but you fail to value the fact that in their exuberance may be be a germ of truth.

It is easy to empathize with those who have insightful ideas expressed well, but harder to do with those full of wonder at the basic premise of a new way of seeing the universe.

It is our job to view with an open mind ALL of the input. And to council the unruly to better behavior. It is our duty to instruct, not to bemoan. Yes, those that will not learn civilized discourse need to be ignored or worse, but we are the instructors of those who follow.

What ATS, even the whole "alternative community" that we now represent, will be tomorrow will be a reflection of what we act like today. It is better to teach well than comment on the stupidity of the students.