Empathy, sorely lacking in the world and HERE at ATS.

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posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 09:28 PM
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Bio Xian
I do not NOW need to REDO a lot of that study to mollify some 23 year old . . . going on 2 . . . with the shallowness of Hillery; the inexperience of a Jr High flunkout; the arrogance of Scuba Teddy etc. etc. etc. Some things are just exceedingly abundantly clear from a wide diversity of high quality sources.

Im in my mid twentie. Sure, I have a child, going to college p/t and working p/t, but often I am judged based on my appearance first and foremost and dismissed as some 'jr high flunckout'. Words couldnt express just how much clearer and how many more opportunities I would have had in my life, had other people treated me as a 'mind' and not as a 'physical stereotype? Those that want to learn are out there! Please dont shut us off as first glance of a tatoo or baseball hat. I bow to all of you here for teaching me so much, and I just wanted to remind everyone that generalizations and stereotypes are very useful memory techniques, and we all have the 'biological' wiring for these functions, so they are by no means wrong - just unjustly misused.

And even if I do meet some young punk talking junk like he knows it all, I feel that it is my obligation to hit them with the truth, and if there is some ioda of hope, honesty or intellect, then I just gained one for the home team!
Not to pick on you Bio Xian, its just the 'dumb youth' attitude that Im trying to de-bunk


[edit on 5-7-2007 by nowayreally]




posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Could you break that down for me succinctly so that I understand what it is you are trying to get across? I'm unclear on this.


I probably could.

Not a high priority. Wasn't one of my long 'dissertations.'

Was a couple of things . . . a minor rant from some persistent annoyance.

and

an experiment.

I'd gone to some bother to be exceedingly empathetic up-thread . . . only to be totally ignored.

Thought I'd 'just be myself' and let it 'somewhat all hang out' and see if there was any empathy the other direction.

In terms of my points . . . you are more than bright enough to figure all that out without my spelling it out any more clearly. It's far from the most obscure writing I've done.

I think the points are inconsequential in the over all scheme of things and the law of the Medes and Persians. The phenomenon will not change this side of Armageddon. I think that's 99.99999% certain. But I can change my emotions about it. It's just that double standards are a real GRITCH to me, for me, with me. But I don't lose sleep over it. It's just annoying.

But I do appreciate your asking . . . and before jumping to conclusions. Very admirable. Thanks.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 10:03 PM
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To nowayreally

who . . . I only realized a bit ago was no way really instead of now ay really . . . silly me not slowing down enough!




And even if I do meet some young punk talking junk like he knows it all, I feel that it is my obligation to hit them with the truth, and if there is some ioda of hope, honesty or intellect, then I just gained one for the home team!
Not to pick on you Bio Xian, its just the 'dumb youth' attitude that Im trying to de-bunk



Great wisdom in your whole post. Thanks much.

I actually didn't have any particular person in mind when I wrote that post. And, I wasn't per se, talking about chronological youth. I was talking about a kind of arrogant teen level attitude--teen going on 2 or 4 years old--And, you are right, calmly hitting with the truth is wiser and better as a response.

But sometimes it gets sooooooo wearying. I know, be not weary in well doing, the Book says.

Welll, everyone KNOWS I'm NOT perfect! LOL.

When it seems like a sizable majority of posts on a given thread are from that kind of attitude and perspective and folks of my perspective are discouraged from bothering with the thread at all . . . it can be discouraging.

One gets tired of being a point person for a major point of view . . . largely because of so much cheeky attitude running so rampant so freely so chronically, that few IF ANY others from that view feel comfortable bothering.

But, at 60, I'm a big enough boy to deal with the reality and go on . . . when it feels worth it . . .

But given that we've talked on this thread about idealistic empathetic posting and cultural set--cultural gestalt--standards . . . of attitude toward one another . . . one can dream a bit.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 10:13 PM
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to NGC2736

[QUOTE]

I will not do your homework, but right now there is a thread that seeks to make sense of ALL the UFO/paranormal ideas floating around. It is a well thought out thread, and it deserves attention. But if you mire yourselves down in self pity for how "stupid" the threads are, you will never find it.

There is gold among the dross, and it IS worth looking for.

Deny Ignorance by looking instead of bitching.

[/QUOTE]

Well said. And plenty wise. Thanks.

Though sometimes, it can seem like, on some threads, the horse biscuits are . . . collected and piled up as a major form of recreation and almost in a 'wanna make something of it?' kind of attitude. Could do with a lot less of that.

It's interesting . . . FREEREPUBLIC's founder is pretty much of a stickler about avoiding insulting comments, contentiousness, needling back and forth etc. He's not 100% consistent in applying those standards but pretty consistent over all over the years. And, the website is double this membership at ATS.

HOWEVER, on the UFO threads--they are relegated to the backroom chat forum and folks can be as derisive, hostile, insulting, assaultive as can be and get away with it totally. Interesting, that. Originated in the allegation in the beginning years that trolls and disruptors were using the UFO subject to make FR look ridiculous and destroy it. Sigh.

Here, it gets annoying that some folks are also seemingly considered fair game for fairly uncensored assaultiveness. But, it's more or less the same as in the world wide culture--especially Western--currently operant overwhelmingly. Some categories, some perspectives are offensive to other people UNWARRANTEDLY but that's never admitted.

Instead, any offense taken at folks who would murder one's only child; rape one's wife etc. in a flash--any offense taken at that category of person is railed at as wholesale evil and heathen etc. How convoluted can we get!

Indeed, black now = white; good now = evil . . . in far too many alarming instances.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 10:18 PM
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Bio Xian
One gets tired of being a point person for a major point of view . . . largely because of so much cheeky attitude running so rampant so freely so chronically, that few IF ANY others from that view feel comfortable bothering

I cant even imagine!!!! - Ive only put in a couple of years of arguing my case and trying to stir up mental stimulation, and I'm exhausted. I'm worn out emotionaly and mentaly. People just dont care.

But, if I give up that hope for mankind in all, then I become nothing more than another victim of 'their' perfect world.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 11:06 PM
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tO NOWAYREALLY,

THANKS FOR YOUR PERSISTENTLY WONDERFUL WRITING AND RESPONSES.

[QUOTE]

Ive only put in a couple of years of arguing my case and trying to . . . people just dont care.

But, if I give up that hope for mankind in all, then I become nothing more than another victim of 'their' perfect world.
[/QUOTE]


Oh, I'm not interested in being their lasting victim etc.

And, I'm a very tenacious, tough old geezer.

It may be that I need to frequent some more friendly threads for a while! LOL.

Certainly a number of folks will have some very rude awakenings quite soon enough. And I don't wish that on them I'd much prefer they woke up earlier and realized their blinders and the realities truly operating in their world.

Alas, or many, 'tis not to be. I need to come more to terms with that.

I'm the sort who spent 2.5 hours training a swallow into a smaller and smaller space until it would fly out the opened door from the pottery studio. I hate to see anyone suffer--especially needlessly.

What's ahead for so many clueless millions . . . still boggles my mind.

Thx for being you.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 11:07 PM
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This thread started out as a way for people to take a look at how they act, and interact, here at ATS. But it's went down hill.

Now it's a pity party for "I don't know why no one likes me."

Bo, people get tired of you preaching to them. Is that plain enough? Some of us are not of your faith and damn well never will be. You have a mandate to convert the whole world, but it's not going to happen.

The rest of you, and you know who you are, need to get a clue that there's a world of crap out there, and in here. If you want to learn, then you have to deal with it because it will NEVER go away.

Here at ATS, and on the web in general, you have the chance to sort through the BS and find that which is worth knowing. A SINGLE new piece of informtion, which is true, is worth days of reading and seeing crap.

The problem is that most of the people complaining here do not place a high enough value on learning. You're mostly from a instant gratification mindset that has a short attention span. If you can't find something of value in the first four or five posts, then it's all a waste. You're the product of the new age.

Look deeper, there are things to learn in everything. Even some "hoax" has something to teach. And it's not the childish "I called it a hoax first." pat on the back that some of you give yourselves.

If the only reason that you are here is to prove to yourself and others just how "right" you are, then you're wasting your time. If you die tonight, no one will remember you next week. This is your big free chance to learn, not show how frigging brilliant you already see yourself.

And there are some really good minds here. There are some people that actually think. This is a good place, if you'll get past the "poor me, nobody understands me" crap.

Am I sometimes short to the point of rudeness? Damn right. Because I'm an old man and I might die without the answers I want because some of you are insufferable idiots. But if you are just halfway human, then I and others will take the time to try and bring you up to speed if we can. I want to be a good "citizen" of ATS, but that does not include letting every moron in the world hijack every thread they find.

Stop the damn moaning and complaining about how bad ATS is/has become, and start making it better. You're here. It's your forum. If there's not enough give and take, enough civility, then YOU need to change it. You need to tell younger minds how to behave in civilized debate, and if they refuse, then ostracize them.

But while you're at it, make sure you are not guilty of trying to push your own agenda and viewpoint down everyone else's throat while disguising it as deep thinking.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Whatever definition works for you is cool imo. My post was about listening to another person.

And judging from how this thread has grown, I'd say that you succeeded at getting people to listen to you...
I'd say you're definitely on a
with this one.


At least you were able to call the "good listeners" out of the closets, but probably just getting ignored by the "bad listeners"...To no surprise.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 11:39 PM
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Bio Xian
tO NOWAYREALLY,

THANKS FOR YOUR PERSISTENTLY WONDERFUL WRITING AND RESPONSES


Okay, honestly, that made my day... 13 minutes into it
Just trying to boost the moral


And NGC2736, you never cease to fathom me
You're right, except i believe the majority of the public are living in desperation and constant unrest, our lack of enthusiam and motivation to 'step up and make a difference' is more of a result of this desperation than our laziness, and 'pity party' mentality.
And yes, dont go shoving your ideas, values or beliefs down someone elses throat. That only wastes time and stains your credibility - Knowledge is everywhere around you if you're looking for it.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 03:08 AM
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I was thinking about this some more last night, after I posted a thread about the Muslim community in the UK starting an anti-terrorism campaign

Now I actually wrote this on the thread, but I'll quote myself here



What I find most disheartening is that it appears that if someone of the muslim faith farts loudly it will garner 15 pages of volatile ignorance/hate, and yet my previous thread got four responses, one of which was an attempt to pull it into the mire


This is typical of the problems at the moment, and its part of what I referred to earlier when I talked about the noise to signal ratio.

There appear to be a number of "link mad" posters who believe that by quoting stuff from their favourite websites, they are proved right. What they seem to be unable to accept is that the websites they choose to visit are inherently biased to their point of view (thats why they like them!).

So page after page of link from one-sided sources gets posted. What can be done? You either end up in a link war (they won't get read) or you have to disengage from the thread because you may as well go and slap your head up a wall. People like to think that what they write matters - but if its drowned in the middle of a link fest it gets lost.

And thats not just on the religious/political forums. It seems to happen in the 9/11 one, and in the UFO one. I guess its to do with passionate ideas but as far as information exchange goes its grating, it wears you down. It prevents reading and encourages dismissal of potentially valuable things people have to say.

And then theres acceptance. It seems an awful lot of people are in denial and can't accept that their particular side has/had failings. This is particularly prevelant in the politics and religion side of things. Heres a couple of examples;

Could the US have made mistakes in its foreign policies previously? "Hell no!" comes the cry "you are being anti-american!".

Didn't Christianity spend most of the dark ages smacking the crap out of/torturing people who wouldn't convert, burning witches and engaging in inquisition and the crusades? "That doesn't matter, it doesn't happen now"

Its all so damn polarised. I'd love to see a forum on ATS where links are banned and the paste function is disabled, so that people HAVE to think, type their own stuff and engage and debate properly. Maybe the key to more successful learning is slightly less technology.

I'm ranting. Time to get a coffee and go to work



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 06:42 AM
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Why cant we all get along??

Go to my *hug* thread on BTS and give everyone a hug. Its a miracle thread-

Its like a drug. It will make you feel warm and fuzzy all over.

Go on- It will be good for you.


Being civilized should be no problem to any of us. Who wants to be bitter and full of lines and wrinkles?

C'mon people, try a little civility. Its good, and it feels good.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to NGC2736

[QUOTE]

Bo, people get tired of you preaching to them. Is that plain enough? Some of us are not of your faith and damn well never will be. You have a mandate to convert the whole world, but it's not going to happen.

[/QUOTE]

So far . . . what I've learned on this thread . . . and elsewhere . . .

hereon . . .

1. Given that I'm not aware of preaching--especially about Christianity--though I'd be happy to consider 3 examples of my doing so hereon--if such are available hereon--especially recently . . . .

IT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE that any hint or indication that a poster is a conservative, Evangelical Christian . . . and breathing . . . and daring, having the audacity to have a perspective, opinion, from that value orientation--will be considered automatically to be PREACHY, NARROW, IGNORANT, CLUELESS, ARCHAIC, PUNISHABLE FOR EXISTING, etc. etc. etc. 'long live the NWO'. Sheesh.

2. On an EMPATHY THREAD . . . Jihadi's warrant and greatly deserve EMPATHY. Raging flaming extreme left liberals warrant and greatly deserve EMPATHY. All such are considered automatically and arbitrarily to be paragon examples of all virtues including EMPATHY. Conservatives and especially Conservative Christians are beyond the pale. Their perspectives are so ignorant, backwards, archiac and out of touch with globalist goals and realities as to barely be tolerable and certainly not tolerable in polite society and especially not hereon. Any hints or assumptions that they think they are allowable must be intimidated; shouted down; derided, dismissed, insulted, assaulted and generally demeaned in all ways possible ASAP. Nothing less will be considered intellectually defensible; nothing less will be considered modern, smart, kosher, CIVIL, POLITICALLY CORRECT, TOLERANT etc.

Long live glorious hypocrisy and double standards.

3. Anyone refusing to sing the homoginized KUMBYA in a kind of zoned out pablum mindless equating of evil with good will be considered insane on average and at least a cluless idiot not worthy to dialogue with in CIVIL society.

Please excuse me, the barf bucket is calling.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:52 PM
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to neformore:




There appear to be a number of "link mad" posters who believe that by quoting stuff from their favourite websites, they are proved right. What they seem to be unable to accept is that the websites they choose to visit are inherently biased to their point of view (thats why they like them!).



Oh wonderful.

Now, in addition to having to post from the value orientation that black is white; evil is good . . . etc.

We now have to figure out how to pretzel ourselves sufficiently to

1. post with links and references or be considered ignorant, clueless, baseless in our opinions etc. etc. etc.

AND

2. to avoid posting with links and references because that's now UNkosher as well.


ISN'T DAMNED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU DON'T SOOOOOO WONDERFUL! What an EMPATHETIC environment to learn to operate within! Sooooo pleasant and enlightened.
I suppose silent farts and burps are no longer allowed when posting either.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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Intrepid, while I understand what you are saying, I have to say something.

You brought up the whole political issue between Conservatives and Liberals. One of the biggest issues to me right now is border security. When there is a group of people who do not want any type of enforcement of border policy, it is hard to "understand" that type of thinking.

Some issues are not understandable. How can you ask someone who wants a secure nation to "understand" a person who doesn't? You can't. There is no understanding such a mentality.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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OK BO, I DO see where your experiment is going and it's derailing this thread. You want to disrupt it, push it until the purpose of the thread degrades. I'm asking you to stop jacking this thread. There are many that have no problem discussing this and you are the only one poo pooing it. Please stop.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
You brought up the whole political issue between Conservatives and Liberals. One of the biggest issues to me right now is border security. When there is a group of people who do not want any type of enforcement of border policy, it is hard to "understand" that type of thinking.

Some issues are not understandable. How can you ask someone who wants a secure nation to "understand" a person who doesn't? You can't. There is no understanding such a mentality.


Here's the crux of it SoT, are they saying they don't want a secure border, or they want a different approach than yours? I've been following this issue as well and I haven't seen anyone that doesn't want security, some just think a wall is impractical. Listening IS the key.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Some issues are not understandable. How can you ask someone who wants a secure nation to "understand" a person who doesn't? You can't. There is no understanding such a mentality.


Not as long as you're looking at it in those terms, no. But you may have to change your mind about how you look at it.


You say, "How can you ask someone who wants a secure nation to "understand" a person who doesn't"? Do you honestly believe that the people who disagree with you don't want a secure nation? That's not the case. They want a secure nation, too, they just disagree with the method that you think is most effective. Or perhaps they disagree that the nation is in danger of security issues.

And don't confuse "understand" with "agree". I understand how some people can like and believe Bill O'Reilly. I can understand how they see him as a charming, straight-shooting guy who really cares about what happens in the world. But personally he makes me want to hurl.

Understanding something doesn't mean you agree.

I understand how some people believe in a higher creator who made us all and loves us so much that he knows the number of hairs on our head... I can understand how it's important for some people to meet every week and talk about this being and praise him and worship him. It seems like a major fairy tale to me, but I understand how important religion is in some people's lives.

Understanding something doesn't mean you agree.




posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN

Oh wonderful.

Now, in addition to having to post from the value orientation that black is white; evil is good . . . etc.

We now have to figure out how to pretzel ourselves sufficiently to

1. post with links and references or be considered ignorant, clueless, baseless in our opinions etc. etc. etc.

AND

2. to avoid posting with links and references because that's now UNkosher as well.


ISN'T DAMNED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU DON'T SOOOOOO WONDERFUL! What an EMPATHETIC environment to learn to operate within! Sooooo pleasant and enlightened.
I suppose silent farts and burps are no longer allowed when posting either.


Last time I checked I didn't run ATS, so I have no idea what this is about. Its like you think I can change something. I just posted my opinion.

But see how you slapped it down? Thats exactly what I - and a number of other posters in the thread - were referring to.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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Source unknown:




When I ask you to listen to me
and you start giving me advice
you have not done what I asked.

When I ask you to listen to me
and you begin to tell me
why I shouldn't feel that way,
you are trampling on my feelings

. . .

So please listen and just hear me.
And, if you want to talk,
wait a minute for your turn;
and I'll listen to you.



Cue music to

TO DREAM THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM . . .

Actually, Empathy one direction is better than no empathy, I think.

I hope.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by neformore

Its all so damn polarised. I'd love to see a forum on ATS where links are banned and the paste function is disabled, so that people HAVE to think, type their own stuff and engage and debate properly. Maybe the key to more successful learning is slightly less technology.



there is the creative writing / story forum...where the ideas & dialogue wells up like lava in a caldera...

but in support of the linkers, #1 they get points if you click the link,
but most importantly, the link proves that others are of a common mind or at least share ideas in the same ballpark...which makes the hyper-link
valuable.




><

but the OP was suggesting that 'Empathy' is missing...

i reckon that sorta means there is too much emphasis on Friction,
a certain absence of understanding,
a need for more bleeding heart, bending over backwards...
more acceptance & tolerance, or at least a cordial demeanor between the
opposing points of view.

yeah, right, maybe in some sorta cult, where strangers are forced into face-to-face arrangements & must 'bite-the-bullet' or be ostrachised as a loser/troubled soul if they don't acquiese (pardon the spelling)

didn't Rodney King express this same 'Lament"....
can't we all get along, which is saying that any sub-group in society needs more love-empathy...(and ATS is being singled out here)





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