US war crimes - Convoy of Death

Hey what better reason to stick most of them into some barrels..

They should have buried them with pigs .....keep the out of heaven

Originally posted by Fry2
If you check the dates you will find that we had a few special ops and CIA members there in an advisory role during this time. We were in NO way in command. quote]

How do YOU know how many american personal were in the area at the time...Im fairly certain information in the early days would most certainly be classified[especialy CIA!!]

Is 'you are leftist' and 'you are anti-war' best that you can come up?
(both claims btw, untrue..)

Or that 'US SF doesnt operate in groups of 30-40'?



They operate in Hundreds even in thousands if needed.

Face the music,

This happened.

There is no doubt about it.

Get a clue you two!!
I already said it happened. I'm saying that it happened at the hands of the Northern Alliance. Not by order of American Spec. Ops. They even said at the beginning of the propogmentary that the use of "death by container" was used for the last five years by both sides.
If our guys REALLY wanted to kill truck loads of prisoners they would just toss a couple of grenades in the box.
As I said. Better luck next time Uninen err Fulcrum.

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Is 'you are leftist' and 'you are anti-war' best that you can come up?
(both claims btw, untrue..)

Or that 'US SF doesnt operate in groups of 30-40'?

They operate in Hundreds even in thousands if needed.

Face the music,

This happened.


There is no doubt about it.

I think you need to learn to read a little better.

I never accused you of ever being "anti-war" or "leftist".

I said if you're a film crew that is doing a documentary on this, and you are blatantly malcontent liberals, then do you REALLY believe it's going to unbiased? Anymore than if horrible, awful Fox news sent a team over and found nothing?

It works both ways, people. Media manipulation swings BOTH ways, Fulcrum. These people want to sell videos to people like you who will buy into it, because they themselves are that way.
The same way a bunch of bible-thumping conservatives would go over and "not find anything".

Oh, and for like the 5th time, your crappy little video doesn't PROVE anything. Look in a dictionary and find the definition of "proof". There is colored circumstantial evidence made available to try and sell videos. Hardly an accurate investigation.

Give it up, Fulcrum.

Having watched the video, a number of times, I think it gives fairly compelling evidence of very possible US complicity.
The Northern Alliance soldiers did the shoting and killing but the present US SP Forces did not stop them, thus the 'complicity.'
All I can comment to this is that there should be a continued investigation into the allegations concerning this and revolving around this.
To say that the Taliban, other Afghanistan warlords, ethnic groups for that matter, the Russian's are excempt from such atrocities in Afghanistan is lucid, yet pointless. The evidences can be produced on all involved. This video documentary is fair indication of a very possible US SP Forces act of complicity, as much as I hate to admit it....it does.

I did find it interesting on how the Afghanistan Embassy responded to this video documentary:

"WASHINGTON-- (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Feb. 5, 2003 -- The Embassy of Afghanistan in Washington D.C. would like to express the following about "Afghan Massacre - Convoy of Death", a documentary produced by Jamie Doran about the alleged massacre of Taliban soldiers in northern Afghanistan, to be shown at the American University:

1. The campaign against terror, or Operation Enduring Freedom, liberated Afghanistan and the Afghan people from years of occupation and oppression by the Taliban-al Qaeda terrorist network;

2. The campaign was a direct response to the tragic events of September the 11th and also the result of unanimous global response to eminent terrorist threats emanating from Afghanistan;

3. The Afghan government is committed to upholding the highest standards in observing human rights.


Contact:The Embassy of Afghanistan Arzo Mansury, 202/483-6410, ext. 811


Source: The Embassy of Afghanistan"


Here:
"The Embassy of Afghanistan Responds to Documentary 'Afghan Massacre - Convoy of Death'"
Link:
216.239.41.104...:FQN791CpTZ8J:www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/documents/030408_afghan_pr.pdf+Afghan+Massacre+-+The+Convoy+of+D eath&hl=en&ie=UTF-8



ZionMainFrame also has this archived in the Media Forum back on 8 or 9/23.


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Fry2

I already said it happened. I'm saying that it happened at the hands of the Northern Alliance. Not by order of American Spec. Ops. They even said at the beginning of the propogmentary that the use of "death by container" was used for the last five years by both sides.
If our guys REALLY wanted to kill truck loads of prisoners they would just toss a couple of grenades in the box.

This guy is hilarious...he just keeps saying "I said thay didnt do it"
If you honestly think the CIA wouldnt order this type of thing..you obviously have no idea what your talking about....the fact that this method had been used in the past just shows you how convenient it would be to continue with this disposal method..

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by McGotti]

The video does not show US soldiers. It shows ONE man in desert camo- face is blurred. It could be anyone. There are no pictures of Massacre with US troops present.

I would hope it's not true.

after watching the video i can say i am undecided,
no doubt that this took place, but i am debating on the us's role if any in the matter? On one hand it is conceivable that our reved up forces soon after 911 wanted some payback... but on the other hand I see no hard proof of their involvement, sorry some afgan witnesses do not do it for me, of course they would say american soliders where there, but are there any shell casings of american weaponry or any like pieces of proof?

Originally posted by Seekerof
Here:
"The Embassy of Afghanistan Responds to Documentary 'Afghan Massacre - Convoy of Death'"
Link:
216.239.41.104...:FQN791CpTZ8J:www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/documents/030408_afghan_pr.pdf+Afghan+Massacre+-+The+Convoy+of+D eath&hl=en&ie=UTF-8



ZionMainFrame also has this archived in the Media Forum back on 8 or 9/23.


regards
seekerof

They dont even try to deny it!

Only giving reasoning for it..



Also:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Orginally posted by me before 4.8.2003..

As Uninen.. that just dont show to you no more..

in "VariousMovies3" is where this is..



[Edited on 9-1-2004 by FULCRUM]

some one above said that SF are brainwashed....that is a load of crap. A good friend of mine is in the navy SEALS. He nor any of his friends i have met are brainwashed. You are quite ignorent to make say that about people you clearly have no contact with.

Originally posted by TheButcher
some one above said that SF are brainwashed....that is a load of crap. A good friend of mine is in the navy SEALS. He nor any of his friends i have met are brainwashed. You are quite ignorent to make say that about people you clearly have no contact with.

When I say brainwashed sir, I do not mean brainless zombies....and yes I have had personal contact with more than one and from more than one branch of service....

And yes they do get brainwashed...absolutly..they break them in training and then completly rebuild them...the tactics used in the training of these men can only be described as brainwashing...

edit: ask him about POW training....if he says it was no big deal then he is not telling you the whole story[actually it maybe somewhat classified]

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by McGotti]

Seekerof,

Btw..

I dont remember that i have claimed that others havent done this kinds of things also..

But just because others too do evil things, it doesnt make it right.





On democrazy now:
www.democracynow.org...
www.democracynow.org.../05/26/1632226

acftv:
www.acftv.com...
www.acftv.com...
(you can buy it from here..)

Having admitted what I did Fulcrum and you not even recognizing or realizing it...here's my beef with all this:

The video is making assertions, that have yet to be fully investiated as being fact.
The video does not clearly show proper identification of US SP Forces.
The video is being sold for a 'death' profit.

If these people have such a case, then why are they selling the video? In such Fulcrum, they are making money off of other people dying? Do you see the Pentagon selling video footage of "operations" for profit? This whole situation sickens me beyond belief, including how this discussion is being handled. More so now that even you have given link to a place to buy such a video....for freakin' what? So you can watch people die? Where the hell is John Wayne?
Why the freakin' hell are they selling DEATH?

This documentary sticks Fulcrum, and the more I dig on this, the more it smells of foul fish. Selling such a video and claiming it as a documentary makes it more a anti-war propaganda tool then it makes it a legitimate case of atrocities.....



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Seekerof]

Incidentally this isn't as out-of-the-blue as some people may think. I remember on the old board we had a few threads regarding this at the time. A few reports were getting out about US-Sanctioned massacres of taliban fighters.

As far as this thread goes, here's how it boils down from my point of view:

1. This "Convoy of Death" may or may not have happened. Reports by BOTH sides are blurry and quite obviously biased. Not every American trooper is a hero, and not every member of the Taliban is a crazed terrorist.

2. As to the people who said that they 'had it coming', what the # is wrong with you? You forget that these people are human beings, just like you. Do you think that every member of the taliban is really a terrorist? what about the guy who signs up so he can feed his wife and kids? You have to remember that the guys on the other side are human too, and as individuals are different. Yes, some of -perhaps most- of the Taliban were bad people. However, they still didn't deserve to die like that. What ever happened to due process?

3. The Americans signed the Geneva Conventions, and as such should follow them whenever practical. Hell, everyone should follow them. Break them, and you're no better than your enemy.

4. Seeing as very few of the people here know what conditions are like in Afghanistan, I think Americans have little right to judge others so harshly. Just because some people are anti-war, it by no means makes them a flag-burning hippy. We don't know what things are like over there, so before we judge others, judge ourselves. Are we really living up to the standards our forefathers would have expected?

Just my thoughts.

DE

Anyway those talibababans aren't fighters at all. They are all a bunch of cowardly butchers who were very good when they had to kill and/or torture unarmed peoples ( especially women & childrens ). But when it comes to fight as a soldier has to do it, they are useless.
We have another clear exemple with the FIS in Algeria.

I wonder why some peoples are crying for these criminals. These talibababans just desserve their fate.

ultra_phoenix,

But what is Americas best friend Dostum?



He was and still is the most ruthless warlord in Afganistan..

Many have died by his hand.. many innocents.. on purpose.



And what comes to selling this..

-> Afghan.Massacre.-.The.Convoy.Of.Death.(2003).VCD.mpg

And:

Of course this massacre is BS..

--
news.bbc.co.uk...

BBC: Concern over Afghan massacre reports

International bodies say they have received reports of revenge killings by Afghan opposition forces sweeping into areas once held by the Taleban.

The United Nations spoke of a mass execution in the conquered city of Mazar-e-Sharif by the Northern Alliance, while the International Committee of the Red Cross reported "hundreds" of deaths in the city, though it did not specify how many, if any, were victims of executions.

--
www.globalpolicy.org...

Bush's Afghan Massacre

According to eyewitnesses, U.S. Special Forces supervised--some say orchestrated--the systematic murder of more than 3,000 captured Taliban soldiers in November 2001. That charge is the centerpiece of a documentary film, "Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death," expected to be released in the United States within the next few weeks.

"There has been a cover-up by the Pentagon," says Scottish director Jamie Doran, a former producer for the BBC. "They're hiding behind a wall of secrecy, hoping this story will go away--but it won't." Indeed, "Massacre" has already been shown on German television and to several European parliaments. The United Nations has promised an investigation. But thanks to a virtual media blackout, few Americans are aware that, on the eve of another war, their nation's reputation as a bastion of human rights is rapidly dissipating.

--
www.globalissues.org...

Afghan massacre haunts Pentagon

The dead are not hard to find. Turn left into the desert after the town of Shiberghan and they lie all around - some in shallow graves, others protruding from the sand.

The clothes they wore are still there: decaying black turbans, charred shoes, a prayer cap, even a set of rusted car keys. In the nine months since they were buried the sun has bleached their bones white. But the jaws, femurs and ribs scattered across the desert are unmistakably human. We found teeth, thick black human hair and bits of skull.

There are a few clues to the prisoners' final moments: the site is littered with spent bullets. There are thick jackets lying above ground, which would have seemed useful to their owners last November, during the freezing desert nights.

Nobody knows exactly how many Taliban prisoners were secretly interred in this mass grave, a short distance from the main road. But there is now substantial evidence that the worst atrocity of last year's war in Afghanistan took place here; most controversially, during an operation masterminded by US special forces.

--
news.bbc.co.uk...

Afghan massacre reports firm up

The human rights group, Amnesty International, has published what it says are eyewitness accounts of a massacre of about 300 men, women and children in Afghanistan.

--

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
Anyway those talibababans aren't fighters at all. They are all a bunch of cowardly butchers who were very good when they had to kill and/or torture unarmed peoples ( especially women & childrens ). But when it comes to fight as a soldier has to do it, they are useless.
We have another clear exemple with the FIS in Algeria.

This is false...compared to all the equipment the americans have,yes..the taliban had little chance of winning...as far as them being weak soldiers...look how long they fought off the russians!!!! Do a little research before you start blabbing nonsense sir..