Due to member demand, the 9/11 forum is now under close staff scrutiny.

You know I came here from another forum where I still post BTW, it was completely destroyed by the trolls and CT's

Topic after topic was started bashing America, the president, blaming 9/11 on the president instead of the terrorists, Christian bashing, and on and on, you admins have reason to worry, if anyone dared to counter their argument they were followed from topic after topic with insults, this is going on all over the net.

Now they have their own forum, perhaps they are regrouping for the next forum they infiltrate.

Or they are already here.


They came onto the other forum in a large group, and they had an agenda, spread disinformation and silence anyone who didn't agree with them.

I was shocked that this same tactic was being used here at ATS,

I started a topic here on ATS , 9/11 and who would benefit most from the CTs, now I don't want to go through what I went through before.

I took a beating over on the other forum, because I dared to voice my opinion.

good luck, I am going to find a topic less dangerous.

PS. if any of the admins want more information about the other forum, send me a message, all their posts are still there.

A Positive Bias

Originally posted by Griff
I am guilty of the accusation of biasness. For that I am truly sorry.

If anyone here is perfect, let them speak now or forever hold their peace.

You've been around for a while, so you may well remember how I used to lay an incredible amount of grief on the staff for pretty much everything.

Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.

In fairness to everyone who suspects bias on the part of the staff, I think it's important to point out that every one of us does have our own opinions on the issues and -- though the "Cosmic Culture" considers it a cardinal sin -- our opinions may influence our decisions as moderators.

It's happened before, it may well be happening now and it will most certainly happen again.

So I'm not denying that moderator bias exists. Despite our best efforts to prevent it from happening, it happens.

That's the bad news.

The good news is that the ATS moderator community is committed to doing something about it, and that's why despite the many frivolous complaints we get about moderator bias, we check out every one of them, because if we didn't, it would hurt every one of us.

We know we walk a fine line between enforcing the terms & conditions for everyone's benefit and being too heavy-handed with our members, which would be so hurtful to our community that it makes me cringe just thinking about it.

And indeed, when we do have to bring some smack down now and then, I pray that the vast, overwhelming majority of our members who honor the T&C won't feel like we're targeting them, because we most certainly are not.

I guess the short version of what I'm trying to say here is that you need never apologize for keeping an eye on us and being suspicious. In fact, I think anything else would be unhealthy. :shk:

Rather, I want you to know that when you catch any of us doing something wrong, we want you to tell us immediately, because we don't want to let you down.

Just sayin'.

I think the mods here are awesome, BTW, they are on the ball.

Don't let the fear of being called biased cloud your vision, that's how people get you to back off, but you guys seem pretty with it.

Thanks for the words of encouragement Majic. I also think the mods here are awsome. I just forget sometimes how hard it must be to moderate a site like this. Take care.

Hello everyone. I think that to moderate this is a good thing, it will not rid ATS of people who actually ADD something, but it will get rid of the "you suck and I rule" mentality. I can disagree 100% with someone, but that is a chance to discuss things and learn something, but someone who just reads a thread and keeps posting insults is ridiculous! Moderation and banning these people will actually make ATS a better site because of this. Some people will never be mature enough for a rational discussion.

Speaking as someone who flirts with internet forums and discussion boards rather than indulging in full on hardcore relationships I am still occasionally surprised by the amount of vitriol which is hurled around with regard to be even relatively low key subjects. I guess it's a bit like driving a car, once we feel protected by that cocoon all normal rules of decorum tend to go out of the window.

I ventured onto a couple of other conspiracy sites recently in order to understand their culture a little better and it was something of a revelation. The sheer venom expressed and the hunting down of those who refuse to confrm was simply shocking. It made even the bear pit environment of some football fan forums look well mannered.

Before anyone complains about the effects of perceived over moderation on this site they should take a long hard look at some others, (which shall remain nameless for the sake of good order), and if they consider that an improvement then they are welcome to go and play with the rough kids if they think it's a better alternative. Good luck.

[edit on 27-6-2007 by timeless test]

Wow! what is happening it appears as if every bastion of free speech on the Internet is under attack and they are pitting one group against the other. my question is who profits bt this, and do the groups know they are being played.

Originally posted by pantheria
Wow! what is happening it appears as if every bastion of free speech on the Internet is under attack and they are pitting one group against the other.

I'm not sure I'd consider any of the 9/11-specific forums/boards/blogs to be concerned with "free speech." All of them have a specific agenda tied to either a collection of theories, or one or more popular personalities. If you're posting material contrary to their agenda, it's removed. If you do it often, you're banned.

who profits

That's a good question. There are some obvious "conspiracy profiteers" in the mix... those who have high-profile theories, products, or names where significant revenue is on the line. These certainly don't want contrary ideas harming their income stream.

Clearly, there are a few who are merely seeking attention. They're either jealous of the attention being fawned on the profiteers, or they're simply attention-junkies in the first place.

But there are also some we might consider to be professional disinformationists as well. The Webfairy and Nico Haupt are increasingly theorized to be in this group.

and do the groups know they are being played.

Some do... the rest like to play (it seems). It's a mess.


And it's a mess we don't want. Which is why ATS will "officially" never have an opinion on any subject other than what's needed to support the free and open expression of any idea or theory within civilized rules of decorum.

I'm starting to see alot of these...


Close scrutiny is one thing, but this seems like some kind of explosive trend of the staff deleting entire posts. I hope this doesn't continue, it kind of makes me sick to see so many posts deleted. Going too far IMO, warn people sure, but deleting entire posts? Since when was that the norm here?
I honestly don't want to waste any time at all writing up a post for ATS that is going to possibly be deleted by staff with that cartoonish looking picture. I can't imagine a better way to run people off of a forum. How many posts have you guys deleted? How long is the 9-11 forum going to be under this sort of 'scrutiny'? Killtown really so bad that we all have to worry about what we say and who we say it to now? What if my post seems political to say majic, but ok to fredt for instance, well there goes my post and perhaps some piece of information along with it. I don't know about this deleting posts left and right guys, seems mighty unneighborly.

That image appears, as it states, when a post grossly violates the terms and conditions of ATS.

It will never appear anywhere else. Only when the entire post has been judged to be a violation of the rules here.

There is absolutely no reason to worry that a post would be removed in that fashion if it did not grossly violate the T&C.

I emphasize the word "grossly" because this image would not be used when the offense is something like foul language. In such cases we would still simply edit out the part that needed to be removed and do our best to maintain the message of the author's post. The only time an entire post gets removed is when it is, quite bluntly, beyond ridiculous.

It's really no different than a mod editing an entire post to say "moderator edit, post removed" etc.

Originally posted by subz
What can I say? I'm blown away

It's completely unacceptable behaviour.

Makes one look at Steve Jones in a completely different light.

I'm not sure why you think Fetzer's behavior puts Stephen Jones in a different light. The two have had a public falling out over different views of the demolition of the towers. (Jones is sticking with the controlled demolition theory. Fetzer is going with more exotic "spaced based weapons" theories.)

Those 'post removed' images just make me more curious instead of being able to agree with the moderator! Maybe there could be a reference to the original post, so that it wouldn't get too cloudy? Just my $0.02; I came in pretty aggressively in my first post, but you guys did make me understand that my point had to do with offensive members rather than internal discussion. Glad to hear I'm allowed to discuss my point of view (the planes were fake - people even said they saw a missile) which truly made me happy, and also makes me stay. Thanks for this and of course, rotten fruit needs to be picked out before it gets infectious..

You know I was wondering about te staff opinion about 911 so I searched for the staffs opinion... I read the skeptic overlords post and his signature...

All I have to say now is thank you and let all truth ring from town to town.
Thier is a major problem in America. Its us. We have so much we need to do to et things even close to being on track to "right". And we have so few willing to work at it. I do more of my "work" at Libertypost under another handle. It is comforting to know that the leader(s) here have a good enough handle on the truth.

Thank you.

RR

Also I would like to offer this to all "911 Truthers" STOP ARGUEING ABOUT THE HOW!...How is not important. How does not matter. That fact that it DID happen and the fact that we were all lied to IS! The truth of the how will never be known. They made sure of that, threw in a few false bones to get us all to quibble about it. DO not divide yourselves over such nonesense, unite yourselves over the fact that we can all agree that we have been lied too.. and thier must be an accounting for that lie. The liars must be brought to justice for lying for protecting the guilty for thier hand in killing the innocent. Too many lives have been lost in the event and because of the results put into motion after the event.

How is no where near as important as WHEN! When will these sick pukes that had a direct hand in it be brought to justice.

Justice is whats important..not semantics.

Think about this.
A plane hit a 110 story building.
Each floor was one acre in size.
Most of the fuel was burned away ie. the fireballs in each crash.
The planes went in at a slight angle or tipped where 4 or 5 floors were damaged.
These buildings had a center core of some of the largest steel supports of any building on the planet.
The building also had a skirt of steel all around the building.
Inside was normal furniture and office supplies.
Now how did a plane and some fuel weaken the 100 floors that were not damaged?
How can damaged parts of a building fall into undamaged floors and continue to have the force to crumble the entire building into dust?
The weaker parts of the building should have met resistance at some point and fall off to the side leaving the rest of the building in place.
If you hit a tree with a plane it might knock it down or break it off but, it would hardly turn it in to sawdust!
Go outside and walk the distance of an acre.
That is a 220 foot square area. Steel works as a heat sink.
It absorbs the heat and transfers it to the cooler parts of the steel.
The closer the damage traveled down the more resistance it should meet from the undamaged part.
Instead in free fall speed those entire buildings blew up into dust.
The north and south towers from the top down and building 7 from the bottom.
Seven was damaged only on one side yet it went straight down in free fall speed.
If you knock out a leg from a table it falls to the weakest side not straight down. This is a no brainer.
Anyone who believes otherwise is with the terrorists!
And we know who they are!

Seems as if this is a hot-button topic for many...including the ATS staff...

I stay FAR away from the 9/11 boards because they have nothing in them to persuade/dissuade me from my belief.

Why must we all nit-pick the small, infinitesimal details around 9/11 being an "inside job" when we all know in our heart-of-hearts it was.

Pods, lasers? Who CARES. The overwhelming evidence points to a non-Muslim terrorist perpetrator. The sheer physics and chemical evidence alone should make this entire forum a closed-book case for us "conspiracy people".

.2

Awww, CRAP! I offended someone, somewhere, somehow! I can't WIN!

Dudes, it's not about winning or loosing...the facts have already been laid down.

What we need to focus on as a community is weeding out the ones that are "not as probable" -- and give the "masses" the easier to digest "facts".

K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid). CNN/FOX have done a great job by keeping the information simple (and abiet emotional).

Fight fire with fire folks, not each other.

Well I am new to this forum but not new to forums like this. I had been a member of several others including Jref.

Four months ago I was forwarded a private message that had been sent in a round robin to select JREF debunkers. The pvt message was of a plan orchestrated to do just what seems to have happened here.

They were to sign up as truthers on forums like this and as a matter of fact this place was listed. They then were supposed to post very wild conspiracy theories. The kind even I would get angry at but then again I am pretty skeptical as truthers go. They were to ridicule and encourage discord using whatever angst aggression they felt like .

This would exacerbate any effort to continue aligning ones self with the truth movement making them the target for jokes harassment and hostility in an attempt to "shut them up" once and for all.

I have not accused anyone here of being part of that and can not say unequivocally that they had ever initiated the plan.

I am saying this because I have noticed some claims being made here that seem like the person is making a concerted effort in TRYING to look stupid.

I regret that this has gotten to where there are labels for this "type" and that "type" and most of us have gotten selectively deaf towards one another. I too a guilty of a condescending attitude towards dissenters but I make an effort not to. Sometimes that is very hard to do and I hate to say it but it's been the truthers I get angry at.


[edit on 26-8-2007 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by pantheria
Wow! what is happening it appears as if every bastion of free speech on the Internet is under attack and they are pitting one group against the other. my question is who profits bt this, and do the groups know they are being played.

Well the free speech is a right reserved for those who wish to express it on ther own forum. This and like many other privately owned forums that have the right to edit, delete as they please. Just as a business reserves the right to refuse business to anyone.