A Modest Proposal

I was thinking at first that this project could be done under the auspices of the Scholar program

This is an intriguing idea. I'd suggest using the Suggestion/Complaint feature, so that it ends up in the mod inbox...and a majority of staff can examine the idea (and more importantly, it can be visible to the 3 amigos...as they ultimately decide such matters, with staff input of course).

Originally posted by BO XIAN

I was wondering as I read your post . . . about teaming up with say the online Phoenix Univ or some such.

That kind of approach would be interesting. They have a very comprehensive program. I think they had to overcome the stigma of online in trying to provide real academic degrees. I looked into it once. Their requirements for partiipation and stuff are tough. You can't just laze on through their courses.

When I was at the UDub they had a student-run "Experimental College" that cost $15 per course. ANYONE could give a course and anyone could take one. It ran on the quarter system. No grades, certificates, or anything special. They may have used University rooms, but I'm not sure about that. I think a lot of courses met in homes or pubs.

That kind of approach would belay charges of elitism because there are no requirements; only energy. If you 'don't like' the approach of a course, do your own. Perhaps ATS could be asked to provide the infrastructure for such an endeavor. I have no idea if that's a difficult task or one that would plg into the existing structure rather easily.

Anyway, nice alternative Bo xian.

I'll be willing to bring it to the attention of the Three Amigos

I plan to mention to my Dean the interest of "The best UFO/alternative news website" in the possibility of some online courses--perhaps even toward some degree in UFOLOGY. . . . without mentioning ATS specifically. If I have to mention ATS to her, I'll note that at this stage it's just a proposal by the troops without any leadership involvement.

The Community College is very progressive . . . but I don't know if they'd be interested in such a topic as a degree program, or not.

Regardless, I think it's a viable thing to come up with a series of benchmarked courses of study that would result in some granting, at least by ATS of various levels of verified achievement.

That kind of approach would belay charges of elitism because there are no requirements; only energy. If you 'don't like' the approach of a course, do your own. Perhaps ATS could be asked to provide the infrastructure for such an endeavor. I have no idea if that's a difficult task or one that would plg into the existing structure rather easily.

Our community college has a community outreach program wherein various classes--often in the arts--are available at a very cheap tuition charge. I suppose that might be an option but there's no testing, credits etc.

It also has a relationship with one of the NM State Univ's downstate which has a branch here for limited BA/BS degree programs.

Good idea to Schuyler...........

We need diversity of knowledge. Ie., an example:

The 'Greys' . There are different versions regarding these so called beings. So we could do with a repository of ALL these ideas, and ask people to add any more they know---------------we have Dr Steven Greer who believes from info from 'inside sources' that they are 'programmen life forms',

we have Dr Mack's ideas that they are part of some shamanic crisis and healing for the 'abductees',

In Native American legends we hear of The Ant People who are surprisingly described like Greys, but were believed to live under ground and be benevolent to humans,

We have the workd of Rick Straussman, who apparently has found that abduction-like experiences can be induced after the ingestion of '___' (this is something next on my list to take a look at),

We have the Budd Hopkins literalism of greys and abductions, and cases where people will claim they are real and they were implanted,

There is an occultist idea that the Greys were brought into being via some 'stargate' and/or magickal ritual brought about by Aleistar Crowley,

So do you see, and there may be more theories. It would be cool for ATS to have some accessibility to such an ongoing , dynamic, and flexible classification of such

Same with types of UFOS. I would like to know how and where and how the triangular UFOs are related. Where they are seen mostly. IF they are related to abductions--which I read somewhere but forget where.

What about those silver-styled UFOS we see in Mexican 'flaps' etc etc

So again, getting some order in trying to understand the diversity of the phenomena. An ordering of the evidence.

No doubt you will tell me this is all done somewhere, but I am only sharing ideas

Nevermind...



[edit on 6-6-2007 by seenitall]

It's been a mixed bag of responses. Thanks to all of you who have contributed ideas and suggestions. I have been called nasty, aggressive, elitist, and narcissistic--all for suggesting reading a few books is a Good Thing. You gotta laugh at that! I've put those insults in the laundry room where I also put golf balls I collect when walking my dog. I put the balls in a wicker basket to give to the grandkids. the insults go in the litter box for the appropriate response. To the vast majority of thoughful replies, my heartfelt thanks.

After due consideration I think Bo Oxian's idea is the best one. I think ATS might not be the best venue for this type of project. A company has to focus to survive. ATS probably needs to build infrastructure to drive traffic to the site to stay profitable, rather than invest in educational pursuits. It is after all an entertainment club, not a school. Since there is only so much energy, I think the 'Experimental College' approach might prove more fruitful. Thanks.

Michael

Originally posted by BO XIAN

I'll be willing to bring it to the attention of the Three Amigos

I plan to mention to my Dean the interest of "The best UFO/alternative news website" in the possibility of some online courses--perhaps even toward some degree in UFOLOGY. . . . without mentioning ATS specifically. If I have to mention ATS to her, I'll note that at this stage it's just a proposal by the troops without any leadership involvement.

The Community College is very progressive . . . but I don't know if they'd be interested in such a topic as a degree program, or not.

Regardless, I think it's a viable thing to come up with a series of benchmarked courses of study that would result in some granting, at least by ATS of various levels of verified achievement.

I posted in this very thread that I support this idea. Let me know what you think you'll need from us. I will say that we are in the middle of huge initiatives so it could take a little time to impliment anything requiring new code.

That being said I can think of some very easy ways to set this up with nothing more than a new forum which takes about 2 minutes to create.

Springer...

Thanks tons, Springer.

I hope to be back on campus Fri or next Monday. Will see if the Dean is in, then. I suspect she will be . . . guardedly positive to the point of willing to consider it and explore possibilities.

I'll be writing the President on some other matters and may mention it to her.

The online courses with our community college are already setup through their website.

Perhaps we could brainstorm some ideas as to what specifically ATS's participation/parts should be in a series of courses on UFO and related phenomena.

Would we develop a taxonamy?

At least a set of minimal bibliography to be considered elligible? To Graduate, for sure?

Any testing? Probably for even an Associates degree set of courses.

Who would qualify as instructors?

What are some potential courses? What of those should be in a minimal list?

Is there sufficient SUBSTANCE to the subject area . . . from any perspective . . . that a BA degree would make any sense?

Would ATS members get any discount on tuition?

Would ATS have some 'community' oriented courses as maybe preliminaries or as alongsides credit courses? What would be the differences?

What does ATS say to any educational institution about the highly classified government issues?

How do we insure that all sides are presented in the coursework?

How do we insure all sides or at least robustness in instructors?

Perhaps we should begin with 1-3 courses of a very basic sort and see how it evolves.

What would be a list of 3-5 minimal course--that we would all readily agree--we should AT LEAST HAVE THOSE courses???

What are some slants we would want to take in publicity about such?

Other questions at this stage?

What are the next 5-7 stages/steps we need to most consider and keep in mind?

Thanks for your kind reply.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Thanks tons, Springer.

I hope to be back on campus Fri or next Monday. Will see if the Dean is in, then. I suspect she will be . . . guardedly positive to the point of willing to consider it and explore possibilities.

Without trying to answer ALL those questions! :-) The idea of a recognized institution with the infrastructure already set up seems just ideal to me to start. That way ATS does not have to build the infrastructure of support to make it work, which is my major point. It would divert them. Hitching to th CC wagon, I would think, generates its own set of rules about how some of the stuff has to get done. Of course, there's a big difference between an Experimental College/alternative approach as opposed to an 'accredited' approach. So that will drive some decisions right there. I know you mentioned AA/BA. Is there an 'alternative' approach there? My CC has a 'community schools' program that 'is not funded by taxpayers' where this sort of thing could be plugged in and the 'rules' are less onerous. On the other hand, if it could be 'official'--wouldn't THAT be something!

In terms of instructors I would think the college would have a set of requirements in place. At my own CC instructors are required to have a Masters in their field. Obviously, if there 'is no field' that presents difficulties, but they're not insurmountable.

In terms of courses, I DO think the is ample material for quite a lot, particularly if its based on a sociology model, i.e.: "neutral" studying "the field" as opposed to a POV. Just as a "For Example" Curriculum:

1. UFOs from pre-1947 through 1973 (5 credits) (Why? Dolan.)
2. UFOs from 1974 to the present (5 credits)
3. The Contactee Movement: Adamski to sleeper (3 credits)
4. UFO Abductions
5. Roswell Intensive
6. UFOs in Film and Literature
7. Disclosure, from NICAP to Greer
8. UFO Organizations
9. UFO personalities
10. UFOs in History (12th century tapestries, Bible, etc.)
11. The Physics of UFOs (eg, propulsion)
12. Interdimensional theories of UFOs
13. UFO Theoreticians: Vallee to X
14. The Corso Theory: Technology dissemination
15. UFO's: High Strangeness factor

I am quite confident, without hesitation, that these courses could be designed with AMPLE material to form a typical 3 credit to 5 credit (quarter) curriculum. There is a vast amount of literature to draw from on all these major issues. This is just an example, but if you add it up, there's your 50 credit UFO major for a BA right there. Add to this the typical distribution requirements including, Puhleeease!!, a course in logic, and there you are.

I'm not recommending this exact approach at all, but simply showing that it wouldn't be that hard from a course perspective, to assemble the material necessary. Not that it wouldn't be a lot of work, but there is no lack of material.

A critical thinking skills prerequisite? One liner, I apologize.

Vic

Originally posted by V Kaminski
A critical thinking skills prerequisite? One liner, I apologize.

Right. I was hoping a logic course would help. I took a great logic course anchored (in light) by Copi's "Introduction to Logic" that was one of the most fun courses I ever took (AND counted for a math requirement). That, along with 'An Introduction to Philospophical Analyses' laid out the principles of logical argument that we see so often violated by folks here. It has to help!

I think one-liners that actually contribute are not doomed. :-) You keep changing your avatar, Vic. Focus! I can't recognize you!

[edit on 6/6/2007 by schuyler]

Schyuler, Sounds like a very interesting list of classes. However do not forget Exopolitics. Even "Defining Exopolitics."

Originally posted by antar
Schuyler, Sounds like a very interesting list of classes. However do not forget Exopolitics. Even "Defining Exopolitics."

Good point! That whole issue needs to be accommodated. They're just examples, though, to show there is plenty of material for a 'real' course. In an ideal world.... Damn! I love your avatar! (I know; mine's not so hot. :-(

[edit on 6/6/2007 by schuyler]

There are also some who think that there is a tie between the UFO phenomenon and such things as Magic and Bigfoot and such. And since this is a non partisan view we want, should a basic course in psychology be at least touched on?

And on a lighter note: OP, the mental picture of your avatar being "interested" in the angel avatar is just plain skin crawling creepy.

Originally posted by NGC2736
And on a lighter note: OP, the mental picture of your avatar being "interested" in the angel avatar is just plain skin crawling creepy.

Yeah, but it's the inside that counts. Besides, the Force is with me. I stand by my posts. But yeah, I understand what you're saying. If we're seeking the whole truth here, there is definitly an overlap of issues that are in some way similar. For example, I suspect that the whole Other Side life-after death thing is tied in with UFOs and Greys. I don't know HOW exactly, but I wouldn't be at all surprised that if after we die, those pesky Greys will be waiting for us. Of course, you're not going to be getting that sort of thing in a college curriculum, unless it is a private theological one. Hmm, maybe not there either. :-)

Thanks much Schuyler.

An excellent listing of courses, imho. May just print it and take it into the Dean first shot.

Yeah, we have the community outreach thing, too. For retirees etc. primarily but now open to all . . . low fees. No great admin overhead--no grades, no credit.

But, seems to me, it would be better to go for credit and degree.

I think the college President and Board are somewhat open to avant garde sorts of things . . . even some controversy . . . but I'm not sure the degree to which UFO stuff would subject them! LOL.

We shall see.

Much appreciate your input. I assume you'd be open to being part of some sort of ad hoc group trying to get such things off the ground?

Hi Schyuler, sounds pretty interesting, there is a college in Arizona that has a course in this subject already, perhaps you could give them an E-and pick their brains. The course is called 'Connections: Extraterrestrials in human thought. It is an interdisciplinary approach. Here is where you read a brief out line that describes the course.

www2.yc.edu...

a fair contribution an interesting contribution a solid contribution a fantastic contribution a superior contribution (?)
posted on 6/6/2007 @ 19:13 single this post "quote"REPLY


Originally posted by BO XIAN
Thanks tons, Springer.

I hope to be back on campus Fri or next Monday. Will see if the Dean is in, then. I suspect she will be . . . guardedly positive to the point of willing to consider it and explore possibilities.



Without trying to answer ALL those questions! :-) The idea of a recognized institution with the infrastructure already set up seems just ideal to me to start. That way ATS does not have to build the infrastructure of support to make it work, which is my major point. It would divert them. Hitching to th CC wagon, I would think, generates its own set of rules about how some of the stuff has to get done. Of course, there's a big difference between an Experimental College/alternative approach as opposed to an 'accredited' approach. So that will drive some decisions right there. I know you mentioned AA/BA. Is there an 'alternative' approach there? My CC has a 'community schools' program that 'is not funded by taxpayers' where this sort of thing could be plugged in and the 'rules' are less onerous. On the other hand, if it could be 'official'--wouldn't THAT be something!

In terms of instructors I would think the college would have a set of requirements in place. At my own CC instructors are required to have a Masters in their field. Obviously, if there 'is no field' that presents difficulties, but they're not insurmountable.

In terms of courses, I DO think the is ample material for quite a lot, particularly if its based on a sociology model, i.e.: "neutral" studying "the field" as opposed to a POV. Just as a "For Example" Curriculum:

1. UFOs from pre-1947 through 1973 (5 credits) (Why? Dolan.)
2. UFOs from 1974 to the present (5 credits)
3. The Contactee Movement: Adamski to sleeper (3 credits)
4. UFO Abductions
5. Roswell Intensive
6. UFOs in Film and Literature
7. Disclosure, from NICAP to Greer
8. UFO Organizations
9. UFO personalities
10. UFOs in History (12th century tapestries, Bible, etc.)
11. The Physics of UFOs (eg, propulsion)
12. Interdimensional theories of UFOs
13. UFO Theoreticians: Vallee to X
14. The Corso Theory: Technology dissemination
15. UFO's: High Strangeness factor

Pondering . . . I'm curious if there's really enough info on #10 for a course. Seems to me that would better be lumped into say a "UFO'S PRE 1947/Roswell" or some such. Trying to imagine myself as an instructor for that course and I think the references would be minimal without broadening it some. Even broadening it . . . seems like a few weeks worth of material vs a course worth.

Other course ideas/proposals:

16. Spiritual issues, dimensions, evidence past and present.
17. Future projections, possibilities.

Others? Comments on all the above?

That course is listed on

PAGE 68

of the long pdf file.

Here's the description:

An interdisciplinary course which explores humanistic and scientific perspectives

Wow--did they just change descriptions? . . . starting over:

"Interdisciplinary approach, introducing concepts on extraterrestrials in science fiction, myth, film and popular culture. Explores and investigates the question of whether we are alone in the universe from historic and contemporary perspectives. One lecture."