Originally posted by V Kaminski
Do whatever millerman. Just "do" and find out for yourself. Have you emailed the Three Amigos? I think Springer and SO were online earlier and may still be here...

Vic, I will wrote up a formal proposal for the admin staff once I have a senior member stepping up to the plate and backing me on this. Once that happens, I'm certain the $$$ will come and everything will fall into place. Gazrok seemed close to stepping up and volunteering, and it's really disappointing that he didn't as someone like him would be an excellent choice...

Greer claims in "Hidden Truth" that CSETI teams have made contact with diplomats and ambassadors from around the galaxy. People love to ridicule him, denounce him as a fraud or cult leader, or complain about the absence of evidence - but just imagine if this turns out to be true! The ramifications of that would be HUGE!!!

Do we not owe it to ourselves to find out for 100% sure if this is true?

Originally posted by tezzajw
The truth is that Leader Greer is a sham. His Cult is false and he lives by profiting from the donations of his believers. Some people, like c3hamby, are so far indoctrinted into the Cult that they don't know the truth to even try and see it.

millerman, asking for donations to send someone to Leader Greer's next vectoring party is negligent. It's a waste of money.

tezzajw, if you are so certain that CSETI is a giant hoax and Greer is a fraud, then why do you keep trying so hard to convince everyone not to send a rep out to find out for sure?

If anything you should be encouraging ATS to send a rep out - so that when he or she comes back and confirms that Greer is a fraud, you can say "See! I was right! I knew it all along, I told you so!!!"

Are you afraid that the rep might come back with some amazing tales and prove you wrong? What are you so afraid of?

Originally posted by MicheleLee
I've lost respect for Mr. Greer since the release of those pictures.

What will turn my opinion around enough to start watching him again? I would need to see clear images or video of Greer sitting at the UFOs exit hatch with an ET, and the Pope holding a sign "This is not CGI."

I feel the only reason why they cannot show us video is because its NOT happening. Sadly we will not see the great video called "ET having a beer with Mr. Greer" anytime soon.

Hi Michele,

You know, I don't think pictures or video will cut it. Even if some compelling footage is produced, there will be many who will still say it's a hoax, that it was done with special effects and CGI etc...

The absolute best way to find out, is to send a senior and highly credible person out there to find out! And if Greer is claiming to be making Contact with ambassadors from other civilizations around the galaxy - which he does, in "Hidden Truth" - do we not owe it to ourselves as truth-seekers to find out for sure if this is true? The ramifications of that are HUGE!!!

Mill, do you think anyone from ATS will have the courage to go to the Greer camp undercover?
CSETI are probably already aware of your plans to infiltrate their 'base'.
Keep in mind the liability release that would have to be signed by the, er, 'investigator' that states they will not hold Greer liable for their death or disappearance!

Don't get talked in to going Gazrok, whatever you do!!

millerman - you have the cart before the horse. You won't do anything in the name of ATS without the express permission of ATS principals. If they don't agree - your idea is toast "respected member" support or not. Have fun with that. I still think your efforts are unethical - 100%... others are free to decide for themselves.

Ok, don't email them - quit whining about your inability to accomplish anyhting and "do" something. Blah, blah, I don't have any money, blah, blah, I have to work... you seem big on others doing things for you. I think you are lazy to the point where you accomplish little of your own stated goals.

Vic

Originally posted by torsion
Mill, do you think anyone from ATS will have the courage to go to the Greer camp undercover?
CSETI are probably already aware of your plans to infiltrate their 'base'.
Keep in mind the liability release that would have to be signed by the, er, 'investigator' that states they will not hold Greer liable for their death or disappearance!

Don't get talked in to going Gazrok, whatever you do!!

torsion

Please scroll back and see my response to Vic.

This is NOT intended as an "infiltration", and the rep would NOT be going "undercover". This is intended as a legitimate effort at diplomacy between ATS and Greer/CSETI, to develop a real working relationship. The CSETI NDA does permit CSETI members to talk about their experiences, with written consent.

And if you fear "death or disappearance" in the pursuit of Truth, you are a coward.

Originally posted by V Kaminski
millerman - you have the cart before the horse. You won't do anything in the name of ATS without the express permission of ATS principals. If they don't agree - your idea is toast "respected member" support or not.

That's correct Vic, if the ATS admins tell me that they won't support this and to shut up about it, then I won't have any choice will I? But thus far I don't see that happening.... and indeed Gazrok at least seemed somewhat intrigued by the idea. I wish other senior members would start chiming in and giving their opinion....

Have fun with that. I still think your efforts are unethical - 100%... others are free to decide for themselves.

Vic, how is it unethical? I am talking about doing this in a completely legit and honest way - freely discussing the possibility of ATS sending a rep out with Greer/CSETI, filling out the NDA honestly and signing it, and obtaining written permission from them to discuss the results on this board. How is that unethical?

Are you afraid like tezzajw that the rep might come back saying that Greer is the real deal? Why are you objecting to this so vocally?

Ok, don't email them - quit whining about your inability to accomplish anyhting and "do" something. Blah, blah, I don't have any money, blah, blah, I have to work... you seem big on others doing things for you. I think you are lazy to the point where you accomplish little of your own stated goals.
Vic

Even if I were to save up the $$$ and go myself, which I would love to do - do you really think everyone on here would believe me? Or would I just be dismissed as yet another member of Greer's "Cult" (like tock/Richard was)?

I repeat - AGAIN - it has to be a senior and highly credible member.

millerman - You do what you feel - I'm done with "your" plan, you? If you can't see a potential conflict of interest in your plan... whatever.

millerman - do you have an idea why you don't have more support? No.? Think about it.

Have fun millerman,

Vic

Originally posted by V Kaminski
millerman - You do what you feel - I'm done with "your" plan, you? If you can't see a potential conflict of interest in your plan... whatever.

millerman - do you have an idea why you don't have more support? No.? Think about it.

Please, Vic? Enlighten us. What specifically is the conflict of interest, IF it is done in a completely honest and legit and above board way?

And why don't I have more support? Because I am too new of a member and I don't yet have enough credibility and I'm a card-carrying member of Greer's "Cult"?

Originally posted by millerman
tezzajw, if you are so certain that CSETI is a giant hoax and Greer is a fraud, then why do you keep trying so hard to convince everyone not to send a rep out to find out for sure?

Are you afraid that the rep might come back with some amazing tales and prove you wrong? What are you so afraid of?

I'm afraid for people losing their money.

Why pay money to debunk a fraud who has already been debunked! In no way would I give Greer $0.01 of my money.

millerman, you go. Find out when the Mount Shasta vector party is on, go near them and watch them, the skies and the insects. See reality for yourself without wanting to contribute $800 towards Leader Greer's gym sessions and personal weight trainer.

Originally posted by millerman
And if you fear "death or disappearance" in the pursuit of Truth, you are a coward.

millerman, you want to go and you let us all know that you lack $800.

Here's an idea - instead of sepnding so much of your time on this forum, why don't you find a short-term, part-time job that will pay around $10 per hour, casual labour. Spend 80 hours there, which you could easily do, given the amount of time you spend here. Save that $800 from your short-term job and then you can open up diplomatic channels with Leader Greer. He will listen to you and you will qualify, as you will have enough money to buy his attention.

If you fear a little extra work to earn your keep, then you are the coward. Wouldn't people short of a spare $800 be out trying to earn money, anyway, instead of typing on an internet forum about a Cult Leader?

Originally posted by tezzajw
millerman, you want to go and you let us all know that you lack $800.

Here's an idea - instead of sepnding so much of your time on this forum, why don't you find a short-term, part-time job that will pay around $10 per hour, casual labour. Spend 80 hours there, which you could easily do, given the amount of time you spend here. Save that $800 from your short-term job and then you can open up diplomatic channels with Leader Greer. He will listen to you and you will qualify, as you will have enough money to buy his attention.

If you fear a little extra work to earn your keep, then you are the coward. Wouldn't people short of a spare $800 be out trying to earn money, anyway, instead of typing on an internet forum about a Cult Leader?

You are still missing the point tezzajw.

If I did go, and came back and reported that Greer and I made Contact with diplomats and ambassadors from extraterrestrial civilizations in other star systems - would you believe me? Would Vic? Would torsion? Would schuyler? Would kroms? Would the mods and admins? Would the rest of the members of the site?

For this to work, it HAS TO be a senior and respected and credible member.

I'd love to go, and maybe one day I will save up the $$$ and go anyway, but no one's going to believe me when I do....

Rock on millerman! I'm all for taking initiative, ATS getting involved with CSETI, and posting about the experience. Good work.

If it goes down, in the end I predict it will be inconclusive and the haters will still hate, the followers will still follow, and the fence people like me will still hesitate to totally commit either way. But who knows? It could reveal something either way. I would be a little suspicious if they 'don't' let someone from ATS go even if they pay, that would seem to indicate they have something to hide. I hope this pans out, at the very least it would give us something more to talk about!

Originally posted by rocketsauce
Rock on millerman! I'm all for taking initiative, ATS getting involved with CSETI, and posting about the experience. Good work.

If it goes down, in the end I predict it will be inconclusive and the haters will still hate, the followers will still follow, and the fence people like me will still hesitate to totally commit either way. But who knows? It could reveal something either way. I would be a little suspicious if they 'don't' let someone from ATS go even if they pay, that would seem to indicate they have something to hide. I hope this pans out, at the very least it would give us something more to talk about!

Thanks for the nod of support rocketsauce, I sure need it right now with the critics all over me!

I don't think they would forbid an ATS rep from attending, after all they have had news crews accompany them on these expeditions...

If you had to pick a senior member to represent ATS, who would you choose? How much would you be willing to throw in - $5, $10, $20.....?

Originally posted by millerman
I don't think they would forbid an ATS rep from attending, after all they have had news crews accompany them on these expeditions...

I don't agree with that, millerman.

I think that Cult Greer would strongly object to any ATS member attending their vectoring party. Cult Greer would definitely be watching these forums and reading these threads. They would be aware of their critics and the know that they could not satisfy their critics with their inability to deliver the evidence, as their vectoring partys are shams.

Some of the senior ATS members have posted negative remarks about Cult Greer and the Cult would know this. They know that they would be under intense scrutiny from any 'official' ATS representative, which isn't worth the risk to expose their sham.

Read the forums, millerman. Springer had a laugh at the moth pictures, you can read his post. If one of the owners of ATS treats the moth pictures as the joke that they are, then what's the chances that Cult Greer would openly allow any form of official contact with ATS? NONE! ATS does not ask for money, UNLIKE Cult Greer.

You're not seeing the fundamental difference between ATS (a free, moderated, discussion forum) compared to Cult Greer, a full fee-paying Disclosure Cult where participants have to sign Non-Disclosure Agreements! Never shall the two communicate in any official capacity, as one is set-up specifically to destroy the other, by denying ignorance, instead of encouraging it under the guise of universal peace ambassadors with CE-5 protocols that cost $$$$$$$$.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
I don't think they would forbid an ATS rep from attending, after all they have had news crews accompany them on these expeditions...

I don't agree with that, millerman.

I think that Cult Greer would strongly object to any ATS member attending their vectoring party. Cult Greer would definitely be watching these forums and reading these threads. They would be aware of their critics and the know that they could not satisfy their critics with their inability to deliver the evidence, as their vectoring partys are shams.

Some of the senior ATS members have posted negative remarks about Cult Greer and the Cult would know this. They know that they would be under intense scrutiny from any 'official' ATS representative, which isn't worth the risk to expose their sham.

Read the forums, millerman. Springer had a laugh at the moth pictures, you can read his post. If one of the owners of ATS treats the moth pictures as the joke that they are, then what's the chances that Cult Greer would openly allow any form of official contact with ATS? NONE! ATS does not ask for money, UNLIKE Cult Greer.

You are totally speculating here. "Cult Greer" is watching us? LOL!

Why not ACTUALLY TRY IT and find out for sure?

Why NOT?

What would be the harm in trying?

Why are you trying so hard to dissuade everyone from sending a rep out? What's it to YOU? You're already convinced CSETI is a Cult, so what difference does it make to you if ATS sends a rep out? We're supposed to believe that you're spewing your Greer-hatred in every Greer thread every day and fighting so hard to stop this from happening because you don't want to see anyone waste any $$$? LOL!

Will your employers be upset with you if you allow this to happen or something?

millerman, you've been here on and off for the past couple of hours. Couldn't you have better spent your time earning yourself $20 to save up for your $800 vector party prize? You already stated that you would contribute $20 for Gazrok to go. You could have had $40 by now, leaving you only $760 short of your destiny with Cult Greer.

Don't type another reply to me today and I know that you'll be out working and earning even more money to help you attend the $800 moth-fest. That's about as positive an action that you could do - rather than sitting here, wasting your time, trying to garner support for a fraud.

Originally posted by tezzajw
millerman, you've been here on and off for the past couple of hours. Couldn't you have better spent your time earning yourself $20 to save up for your $800 vector party prize? You already stated that you would contribute $20 for Gazrok to go. You could have had $40 by now, leaving you only $760 short of your destiny with Cult Greer.

LOL!

And I've logged you spewing Greer-hatred off and on, for hours, in every single Greer thread, many times tezzajw....

How much do you get paid?

Why not just spew your hatred once and be done with it, instead of every day in every Greer thread for hours?

If I were a "Greer", "Gilliland", "Yahweh", "Escamilla", "Barton", "Sereda" or similar "vendor of bovine scatology" I'd have a dozen (perhaps more) people (accolite wannabe's) hit the net on a regular basis... in shifts, organized at the local Ambassadorial level quite likely as roaming "site tag teams" cross-reinforcing each others statements, dredging up "long-since beaten to death threads" and asking stupid questions, minimizing and neutralizing damage, posting those idiot buy my DVD or book "news" items. Heck, I'd likely assign certain sites - specialists.

Yes, with nothing but the sole purpose of recruitment and promotion and running interference - all to garner the "buzz" that sucks in "$fresh meat$". I'd even throw in some "wildcard" fence-sitters, just for the confusion factor.

They'd quite likely do it "gratis" just to be sent on a task by CGI (Cult-Greer International) or one of his local Ambassadorial Franchisees.

But then again... I'm not Steven Macon Greer or a vendor of anything.

Vic

[edit on 2-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by millerman
How much do you get paid?

Why not just spew your hatred once and be done with it, instead of every day in every Greer thread for hours?

millerman, it's not your business how much I get paid.

I have enough spare cash to fly to California and attend the moth-party. I could fly out tonight if I wanted to. While I wouldn't fly first-class, I could certainly afford an economy return ticket around $2000AUD or so. I'm not the one complaining that I am short of $800 - you are!

Also, due to my work (that's right - I work), I have an open lap-top on my desk most of the day. It's an easy matter for me to refresh the screen and see what posts have been added.

Go on, millerman - go earn some more money so that you can score your $800 ticket to the greatest no-show on Earth.