Explanation as to why CSETI has no credible video/photographic evidence

Originally posted by torsion

Indeed, take a look at the CSETI Liability Release participants have to sign which states - "I agree to hold harmless... Steven M Greer M.D... in the event... of... my death or disappearance."

www.cseti.org...

This doesn't surprise me at all. No one seems to want to believe that the work Greer does (accusing elements of the governments and other power structures of the world of terrible crimes against humanity) is dangerous and that people get harassed, threatened, murdered etc.

Originally posted by millerman
I've reviewed the NDA, and it looks like you are allowed to talk about what goes on, and capture photographs/video and use them - with written consent from CSETI.

I can see that, and the key issue here is "with permission." If I take pictures with my own camera I still need Greer's permission to use them. This remains a NON-DISCLOSURE agreement for the DISCLOSURE. There's more, too. Greer wants to know if you are representing any other group and if you've been 'delegated' to report back to that group. So the idea we've been tossing around here about sending a representative to report back to ATS would, in all good conscience, have to be disclosed. It's quite obvious Greer doesn't want any infiltration in his groups. Greer is taking control of my personal experience here. I just wonder what he's afraid of. There's no qualitative difference between what he's doing with the NDA and a top secret government clearance, swearing you to secrecy.

I mean, if you were an actor or celebrity or someone like that, and people were taking photographs and recording video footage of you - you'd want to retain some kind of legal control over how that footage is used, right? You wouldn't want paparazzi types editing/distorting it, selling it to tabloid-trash publications, using it to discredit you....

I understand the sentiment, but the reason there exist paparazzi is because while in public it's legal for them to take, use, and sell pictures of you. Greer is circumventing your legal right to do so with a NDA (which it is legal for him to do.) In other words, celebrities do not have control.

If it turns out to be true that they have been purposely jamming up people's recording equipment - then that's not Greer or CSETI's fault!

But is sure is convenient that there's no evidence for DISCLOSURE. Blaming it on the aliens is a cool move, I admit.

Well, they may have "lots" of pictures/footage - that aren't that spectacular in terms of what they actually depict. Like hundreds or thousands of pictures of the typical glowy lights in the sky that hover around and don't do anything especially exciting. The sort of stuff that's all over the Internet already.....

Good point. But Greer said terms like "fantastic" (It's up above here somewhere) which I take it to mean more than another light in the sky. I'd like to see some fantastic stuff. You bet. Bring it on!

[edit on 31-5-2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by millerman
No one seems to want to believe that the work Greer does (accusing elements of the governments and other power structures of the world of terrible crimes against humanity) is dangerous and that people get harassed, threatened, murdered etc.

millerman, exactly WHAT work does Leader Greer do?

What has he done in the past five years, other than lecture to his Cult, write books for his Cult and speak on radio for his Cult to tune in?

What has he done and what does he do?

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by millerman
I've reviewed the NDA, and it looks like you are allowed to talk about what goes on, and capture photographs/video and use them - with written consent from CSETI.

I can see that, and the key issue here is "with permission." If I take pictures with my own camera I still need Greer's permission to use them. This remains a NON-DISCLOSURE agreement for the DISCLOSURE.

Well, the evidence has to do with UFOs, but it also has to do with Greer and CSETI. Greer has a right to try to protect the evidence being created during his paid training, and prevent people from abusing it - editing/distorting it, turning around and making $$$ from it, etc.

Besides, as c3hamby pointed out, photographs and footage of UFOs are not DISCLOSURE; world leaders coming clean to the public is DISCLOSURE.

There's more, too. Greer wants to know if you are representing any other group and if you've been 'delegated' to report back to that group. So the idea we've been tossing around here about sending a representative to report back to ATS would, in all good conscience, have to be disclosed.

Well, that's fine, and I'm sure Greer wouldn't mind. Again, ATS is a vehicle that can get the truth out to thousands of people, if not HUNDREDS of thousands of people, so I don't see why he wouldn't approve. Indeed I think it would be an absolutely great thing for ATS to offer its hand in friendship to Greer and CSETI by sending a representative out and developing a real relationship!

(Any mods or site admins reading this besides Gazrok? Since he seems to have decided he's too busy to volunteer.......)

It's quite obvious Greer doesn't want any infiltration in his groups.

Of course not, why WOULD he want his groups infiltrated?

Greer is taking control of my personal experience here. I just wonder what he's afraid of. There's no qualitative difference between what he's doing with the NDA and a top secret government clearance, swearing you to secrecy.

Sure there is, because with his NDA, you can ask him for permission to talk about your experiences and show your evidence. With top secret government clearances, you can't.

If it turns out to be true that they have been purposely jamming up people's recording equipment - then that's not Greer or CSETI's fault!

But is sure is convenient that there's no evidence for DISCLOSURE. Blaming it on the aliens is a cool move, I admit.

But schuyler, why is it that everyone else in the world seems to have the same problem with capturing spectacular, irrefutable evidence as CSETI members do? I don't see any non-CSETI people producing footage of UFOs signalling, or landing, or ETs coming out....

Sorry but the explanation that it is the ETs controlling this aspect of Contact, fits. As much as you guys want to portray this as an "excuse" or "cop-out" on Greer and CSETI's part, the explanation still fits like a glove....

Originally posted by millerman
Again, ATS is a vehicle that can get the truth out to thousands of people, if not HUNDREDS of thousands of people, so I don't see why he wouldn't approve. Indeed I think it would be an absolutely great thing for ATS to offer its hand in friendship to Greer and CSETI by sending a representative out and developing a real relationship!

millerman, Leader Greer has worked hard to build his Cult. He has insidiously made himself the Leader for all of Cult to follow - blindly. Do you really think that Leader Greer would welcome any form of assistance or scrutiny from non-Cult members, such as we are on ATS?

No way!

Leader Greer has set up his Cult to fund his retirement. He doesn't want anyone from ATS going in and upsetting his stable form of income. People from ATS would be skeptical and asking too many questions for Leader Greer to sufficiently answer. He would collapse under the weight of his own lies. He's not going to welcome ANY outside intrusion into his Cult.

"Dr" Greer is a bit behind the times... like last century... fit very well in the '80's... not so much now since he has a habit of alienating other researchers who don't buy his "schtick".

I'm quite sure CSETI has lots of "field evidence" - I'm equally as sure they have nothing any reasonable mind would find conclusive... or Greer would have sold that too... long ago.

The only thing Steven Macon Greer really has that is "new" is a constant stream of gullible "fresh meat" willing to pay him for his stories and the accounts of others. This "fresh meat" comes as a result of his "lectures" and books and videos and all the previously converted who try and find out what he "knows" that they don't - which is nothing of value in pursuit of truth.

There are lots of CSETI pics and vids of lights in the sky, moths, High Priests, yahda, yahda, yahda.. just not good and conclusive enough to stand peer-review.

If there were real public disclosure his victim-market would disaapear in the instant of confirmed alien/UFO contact. Real public disclosure means bye-bye Greer and hello Primat and Connie Alien and whatever baggage and agenda they're haulin' is what humanity will have to deal with... not Greer.

Vic

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
Again, ATS is a vehicle that can get the truth out to thousands of people, if not HUNDREDS of thousands of people, so I don't see why he wouldn't approve. Indeed I think it would be an absolutely great thing for ATS to offer its hand in friendship to Greer and CSETI by sending a representative out and developing a real relationship!

millerman, Leader Greer has worked hard to build his Cult. He has insidiously made himself the Leader for all of Cult to follow - blindly. Do you really think that Leader Greer would welcome any form of assistance or scrutiny from non-Cult members, such as we are on ATS?

Well - LET'S FIND OUT!

By choosing a representative, and DOING IT!

If Greer is on the level and has nothing to hide, he won't have any problem with a rep from ATS coming out on an expedition, and speaking about his/her experiences on this forum.

Or - we can bicker back and forth over Greer's credibility in dozens of different threads for many more months and years - yeeeee-HAW!!!

Originally posted by V Kaminski

There are lots of CSETI pics and vids of lights in the sky, moths, High Priests, yahda, yahda, yahda.. just not good and conclusive enough to stand peer-review.

Fine, so let's get someone out there in person to find out for 100% sure what goes on!

Originally posted by millerman
If Greer is on the level and has nothing to hide, he won't have any problem with a rep from ATS coming out on an expedition, and speaking about his/her experiences on this forum.

millerman, clearly you give Leader Greer more credit than he desrves. You start from a viewpoint that he could be telling the truth.

That's lending a lot of support for a liar, a cheat and a Cult Leader who is clearly setting himself up for a gentle retirement and wallowing in the adoration of his flock.

Originally posted by millerman
Fine, so let's get someone out there in person to find out for 100% sure what goes on!

Millerman, CSETI claim to be a group of spiritual people who are working for the benefit of mankind. Why don't you contact Debbie and ask if you can go to the training session for free?

If they are as spiritual as they claim I'm sure they won't refuse such a humanitarian act. This charitable act would also go some way to showing that they're not just in it for the money.

If they get 60 people on the Shasta session that will rake in a cool, tax exempt, $48,000 for a few days work. Surely they can squeeze one extra person in for free who is sincerely interested in their organisation and who genuinely can't afford their fees?

Yeah right torsion.....

I repeat, it has to be a senior and widely respected and believable member.

Hi millerman did you email the Three Amigos? How'd that go? Any luck recruiting "your respected member"? Best of luck eh.

Vic

[edit on 1-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by V Kaminski
Hi millerman did you email the Three Amigo's? How'd that go? Any luck recruiting "your respected member"? Best of luck eh.

Vic

No, not yet, I've been busy trying to make $$$ and survive another week.

But you'll note the incredible amount of non-volunteering going on, in response to the ONE idea that will actually get us to the truth about CSETI and what goes on during these expeditions once and for all!

It's like c3hamby said - most people don't really want to get to the truth, they just enjoy playing "torture the Greerians".

How about yourself, Vic? Would you throw in even $5 towards getting one of our members out there? Or would you like to be the one that gets to go, if enough $$$ can be raised?

No. I have my own research plans and I can't in good faith support such a venture as millerman suggests as I view it as unethical - 100%.

I can't stop you from the attempt to organize. It may be wise to review the T&C re: recruiting at ATS millerman. I think you should ask permission of site principals via u2u first - I mean that.

I advise you to seek proper permissions in the proper sources and break no laws in any research and do not engage in any deceit or deception... that's Greer's domain.

Vic

Originally posted by V Kaminski
No. I have my own research plans and I can't in good faith support such a venture as millerman suggests as I view it as unethical - 100%.

I can't stop you from the attempt to organize. It may be wise to review the T&C re: recruiting at ATS millerman. I think you should ask permission of site principals via u2u first - I mean that.

I advise you to seek proper permissions in the proper sources and break no laws in any research and do not engage in any deceit or deception... that's Greer's domain.
Vic

Vic,

Just for the record I am NOT advocating doing anything illegal or dishonest.... upon careful review of the NDA for CSETI members, it looks like it is acceptable for members to talk about what they experience - as long as they obtain written consent from CSETI.

As for the T&C, I remember that people are not allowed to try to form "NWO resistance groups" and things like that, but I am talking about a legitimate effort at diplomacy between ATS and CSETI, by sending a representative out on one of their expeditions, having that representative get answers directly from Greer about the more common questions regularly posed on this board, and obtaining written consent from him so that that representative can freely post on ATS about what he or she experiences during the expedition.

Since ATS is a vehicle that has the potential to get the truth out to hundreds of thousands of people and there are likely many on here who could help Greer with his various needs - but they are sitting on the fence right now because they aren't sure if Greer is legit....

EDIT: grumpy post removed.

Proofs require only adequate proof. Not extra. But there is no need for me to rant about that, right

[edit on 1-6-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

Do whatever millerman. Just "do" and find out for yourself. Have you emailed the Three Amigos? I think Springer and SO were online earlier and may still be here...

When your done sussing-out Greer, you might choose to add ECETI to your investigations.

I, and I think many others are aware enough about Greer to make an informed decision as to his credibility or lack thereof.

Vic

Originally posted by millerman
No, not yet, I've been busy trying to make $$$ and survive another week.

Ever though of setting up a ufo vectoring/ et contacting / moth photographing/ donation requesting Diplomat to the Universe group? You could make over $40,000 a week! Tax free, too!!

Originally posted by millerman
It's like c3hamby said - most people don't really want to get to the truth, they just enjoy playing "torture the Greerians".

Since when does c3hamby have any weight around here? He talks about the contents of a Fed-Ex, that he can't produce, as though it is FACT.

The truth is that Leader Greer is a sham. His Cult is false and he lives by profiting from the donations of his believers. Some people, like c3hamby, are so far indoctrinted into the Cult that they don't know the truth to even try and see it.

millerman, asking for donations to send someone to Leader Greer's next vectoring party is negligent. It's a waste of money.

I've lost respect for Mr. Greer since the release of those pictures.

What will turn my opinion around enough to start watching him again? I would need to see clear images or video of Greer sitting at the UFOs exit hatch with an ET, and the Pope holding a sign "This is not CGI."

I feel the only reason why they cannot show us video is because its NOT happening. Sadly we will not see the great video called "ET having a beer with Mr. Greer" anytime soon.

I've watched some videos where objects have been caught on tape. Such as the cams on the pyramids, or even Joe Blows backyard cam. Some have been explained, and some are not so easy to explain (UFO ? )
Just Google them and you decide.

To give him the benefit of the doubt how are we to know what these beings would be like? We have only heard descriptions of what others have seen, but nothing solid. They could be a beam of light in the shape of a moth? I'm not saying this is what I believe. I am simply saying how do we know for sure? I am open to these ideas, but it will take more then blurry pictures and spots to convince me.

I believe it was back in 2001 when I watched the National Press Club Conference video. I was very impressed with the testimony from all those people. At that time this was the most credible evidence we had in my opinion. Now Greer has completely fell off the wagon.

I do not know what to think anymore.